Discussion in 'Contests' started by LeSwordfish, Jan 7, 2017.
Precedence says no to the Strange quality items, but it may be worth the ask.
how would quality be rated tho if people are averse to judging loads of entries
I think it will be pretty easy to distinguish 5 min scrap and 40 hours map. After all, people who show dedication should get the 'better' medal right?
Something worth noting using this logic of comparing time taken is that, for a new mapper, it may take them 10 hours to make something that I could do in an hour. It's not a bad metric, but need to consider the person who's doing the work too. 40 hours from a noob, vs 40 hours from a pro will produce WIDELY different results in comparison.
There's a fundamental problem in that we can't do any sort of formal judging procedure (the only real judging procedure we do is the showcase, which is created in a fairly arbitrary manner), and so creating a reward that actually had an assigned value is never going to be fair. There's no getting around this. The medal can only really exist because all it is is a participation pin, anything more than that and we're back to square one.
The rule about eliminating low quality work would exist mostly just to scare people into trying harder. Plus, deciding whether or not an entry counts is already an arbitrary process (as earlier stated, it has to be), so we'd just use it as a caveat so that we can exclude entries that we know for certain are low effort. When in doubt, the entry counts.
The original build of Probed was made in 10 hours on the last day of a 72hr contest. Most of that layout was there for the final version of it.
And on the flipside of that my 72hr maps take up between 50 to 60 hours and never get finished because they're garbo.
and probed got in the game, I hardly think you care about a participation medal. The mappers that would be able to produce quality in that time-frame already have their medalions, maps in game, or famous maps.
Also, the medal would then represent continuous participation, not quality (which is the map maker's medalion's role).
Perhaps the existing medal can have a stat that counts how many 72 hour jams you have participated in?
Oooooh, good idea! We could level up our pins by participating often, like a soul gargoyle or campaign stamp.
There are plenty of great mappers and content creators out there not part of our community. The whole point of the jam is to branch out.
Precedence say that this is probably not going to happen as it requires extra work on Valve's end. If this was the case, we wouldn't necessarily be getting UGC Season 1,023 Medals every 6 months. (If I'm incorrect though, let me know!)
If participation involves mapping for less than one day then they're coming to the wrong community. If they can make a small 10 hour project then they should make two for instance.
That's a silly arbitrary requirement. Plus, the jam isn't just mapping.
Well Swordo asked for suggestions to deal with the low quality coming in, if someone does low effort with tons of skill should they still get rewarded? I'd rather promote effort as opposed to quality and working for an extended period (including preplanning) seems like the most black and white filter to enforce for entrants.
Also I know its not just about mapping, but its not like the logic doesn't apply across other aspects.
This feels entirely against the spirit of a jam, IMO.
It's like you want to punish people for being creative under pressure and not adhering to your deadlines.
I don't want to punish, I would rather just see refrainment from rewarding low-effort. I don't see how creativity or pressure comes into play in this scenario over one where judging would be of quality (which suffer from creativity and pressure).
Time is not a proper metric for rewarding effort. Over the years I've been here I've seen people at plenty of 72 hr events, people both veteran and novice, produce some astounding things under extremely limited windows of time.
That's a metric of quality, not effort. It doesn't dispute how time isn't a fair way to measure effort
edit: yes i'm aware sword asked for quality not effort, but I would like to argue effort is a better reward system for the jam.
My entire point was that I was capable of making a map that eventually got accepted into the game in 10 hours, last second rushed for a 72hr jam. There are mappers and content creators out there better than me that are not part of our community. Demanding they come in and spend at least two days here or their content doesn't count is arbitrary and not actually any sort of metric of quality. Time does not equal quality.
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