TF2Maps and Potato’s MvM Servers Present: Mappers vs Machines

[Da Spud Lord]

I'm calling rigged.
We spent multiple weekends testing our pops and then we get told 'test your fucking maps' ;
Most Maps in the shortlist are barely detailed, misaligned textures everywhere and complete lack of cover , we have a corridor and it's 'too op for snipers' and congratulations, you fell for my trap, I've uploaded screenshots with MAD bloom+HDR to see if you'd actually TEST the maps before making a decision, the map itself is fine, i've setup a trap and i am extremely disapointed that you fell for it, thus showing that most of you judges dont care about a fair contest, making up templated reasons based on random screenshots and just want your friends to win by adding their map and disqualifying those where actual teamwork and comitment where needed to complete.
Another issue that was 'disqualification' worthy is that we're using 'random props', now that's a funny one because it came up on all our entries; you see, when making a japanese town we might need to use japanese signs and japanese themed props ; same for potassium, when making a jungle map that is also industrial-themed, we might need to use non-jungle props ; in comparaison to a map that did make it to the shortlist : sequoia, i'm amazed that it actually made it with the massive spam of the same goddamn tree prop, some people would find that cool, i find that amazingly unimaginative.
To respond to the 'layout is random, detailing is ridiculous as roads go into walls', note that intersection is based of a reality, we used pictures of real villages and cities to make this map, wich shows that the level of research of some of the judges is close to null.

Anyways, maybe i am just midly upset that we're being refused fair judgement once again on false pretext by greedy judges that clearly dont care about what is fair and disqualifies good maps so that their friends map wins, once again.

no offence to anyone of course

Someone's salty.

Listen, it's a contest. There's gonna be winners and losers. Just because you're not a winner doesn't mean you get to bitch about how the judging is rigged. Your maps weren't disqualified, they just didn't make it into the top 16- which when you're dealing with as many maps as were submitted to the contest, of course there are lots of maps that won't make it into that category. Calm your tiddies and get some perspective. You're not perfect, your maps had flaws that the judges pointed out, and for those reasons it didn't make it into the top 16.

 

[Svode]

Maybe if I become donor I can win a cathegory? xDD
Or become Staff 3 months and get ez medal and leave lolz

No.
If you entered only for the medal, then you wouldn't of had a chance at the shortlist. Those who were picked put effort and work into their creations, and were picked as a result.

 

[Qohen]

No.
If you entered only for the medal, then you wouldn't of had a chance at the shortlist. Those who were picked put effort and work into their creations, and were picked as a result.

was this serious?

 

[Seba]

I'm calling rigged.
We spent multiple weekends testing our pops and then we get told 'test your fucking maps' ;
Most Maps in the shortlist are barely detailed, misaligned textures everywhere and complete lack of cover , we have a corridor and it's 'too op for snipers' and congratulations, you fell for my trap, I've uploaded screenshots with MAD bloom+HDR to see if you'd actually TEST the maps before making a decision, the map itself is fine, i've setup a trap and i am extremely disapointed that you fell for it, thus showing that most of you judges dont care about a fair contest, making up templated reasons based on random screenshots and just want your friends to win by adding their map and disqualifying those where actual teamwork and comitment where needed to complete.
Another issue that was 'disqualification' worthy is that we're using 'random props', now that's a funny one because it came up on all our entries; you see, when making a japanese town we might need to use japanese signs and japanese themed props ; same for potassium, when making a jungle map that is also industrial-themed, we might need to use non-jungle props ; in comparaison to a map that did make it to the shortlist : sequoia, i'm amazed that it actually made it with the massive spam of the same goddamn tree prop, some people would find that cool, i find that amazingly unimaginative.
To respond to the 'layout is random, detailing is ridiculous as roads go into walls', note that intersection is based of a reality, we used pictures of real villages and cities to make this map, wich shows that the level of research of some of the judges is close to null.

Anyways, maybe i am just midly upset that we're being refused fair judgement once again on false pretext by greedy judges that clearly dont care about what is fair and disqualifies good maps so that their friends map wins, once again.

no offence to anyone of course

I can't comment on the judging process but if you think using the same prop multiple times in a map (much less a tree in a forest) is 'spamming' then I'm not sure you understand the very basics of detailing. Regarding the roads leading into walls: while I've not seen your map or your references, blindly remaking real-life buildings and places isn't good detailing and if you shoved something into your map that looks odd in context you shouldn't be surprised when people point it out.

 

[Quenquent the babysitter]

Congrats on everyone that made it into the shortlist. So many good maps that made it and that I'm so happy to see ! I don't care mine didn't made it, I just love all the MvM content the community is making. I do plan on finishing mine, and the feedbacks you gave, even if a bit short, will help greatly !

I'm calling rigged.
We spent multiple weekends testing our pops and then we get told 'test your fucking maps' ;
Most Maps in the shortlist are barely detailed, misaligned textures everywhere and complete lack of cover , we have a corridor and it's 'too op for snipers' and congratulations, you fell for my trap, I've uploaded screenshots with MAD bloom+HDR to see if you'd actually TEST the maps before making a decision, the map itself is fine, i've setup a trap and i am extremely disapointed that you fell for it, thus showing that most of you judges dont care about a fair contest, making up templated reasons based on random screenshots and just want your friends to win by adding their map and disqualifying those where actual teamwork and comitment where needed to complete.
Another issue that was 'disqualification' worthy is that we're using 'random props', now that's a funny one because it came up on all our entries; you see, when making a japanese town we might need to use japanese signs and japanese themed props ; same for potassium, when making a jungle map that is also industrial-themed, we might need to use non-jungle props ; in comparaison to a map that did make it to the shortlist : sequoia, i'm amazed that it actually made it with the massive spam of the same goddamn tree prop, some people would find that cool, i find that amazingly unimaginative.
To respond to the 'layout is random, detailing is ridiculous as roads go into walls', note that intersection is based of a reality, we used pictures of real villages and cities to make this map, wich shows that the level of research of some of the judges is close to null.

Anyways, maybe i am just midly upset that we're being refused fair judgement once again on false pretext by greedy judges that clearly dont care about what is fair and disqualifies good maps so that their friends map wins, once again.

no offence to anyone of course

About Pottasium :

I do believe the judge mostly looked at the technical side of the maps, and texturing barely matters (I have to agree that I didn't saw props being "out of place"). And yes, your map do tend to be "op for snipers" due to those huge corridors (the one after the first door is the best example, but even at spawn, it's easy for a Sniper to snipe everything)

Also, we didn't play the Normal mission, but we did play the Advanced one. There was multiple instances of "fake giants" : big robots that aren't marked as Giants but do seems to have been made to be Giants in the first place. I'm not sure if this is planned tho, but if it is, you are favoring Spy A LOT !

Also, something the judges didn't speak about : Engies can easily be immune to Sentrybusters and Spies if the sentry is at the higher spawn's hill. Because the Busters spawn at the lower spawn, and there's no way to get from the lower spawn to the higher one, they self-destruct on spawn. And since one sentry can solo the higher spawn if it doesn't meet a Giant, it made everything rather easy.

 

[Panckakebro]

Someone's salty.

Listen, it's a contest. There's gonna be winners and losers. Just because you're not a winner doesn't mean you get to bitch about how the judging is rigged. Your maps weren't disqualified, they just didn't make it into the top 16- which when you're dealing with as many maps as were submitted to the contest, of course there are lots of maps that won't make it into that category. Calm your tiddies and get some perspective.

It's annoying though when you put significant effort in brushwork and detailing, but it is ignored because the bloomscale (1 value) is too high.

 

[Qohen]

Congrats on everyone that made it into the shortlist. So many good maps that made it and that I'm so happy to see ! I don't care mine didn't made it, I just love all the MvM content the community is making. I do plan on finishing mine, and the feedbacks you gave, even if a bit short, will help greatly !



About Pottasium :

I do believe the judge mostly looked at the technical side of the maps, and texturing barely matters (I have to agree that I didn't saw props being "out of place"). And yes, your map do tend to be "op for snipers" due to those huge corridors (the one after the first door is the best example, but even at spawn, it's easy for a Sniper to snipe everything)

Also, we didn't play the Normal mission, but we did play the Advanced one. There was multiple instances of "fake giants" : big robots that aren't marked as Giants but do seems to have been made to be Giants in the first place. I'm not sure if this is planned tho, but if it is, you are favoring Spy A LOT !

Also, something the judges didn't speak about : Engies can easily be immune to Sentrybusters and Spies if the sentry is at the higher spawn's hill. Because the Busters spawn at the lower spawn, and there's no way to get from the lower spawn to the higher one, they self-destruct on spawn. And since one sentry can solo the higher spawn if it doesn't meet a Giant, it made everything rather easy.

Thanks will make sure we work on that

 

[Da Spud Lord]

It's annoying though when you put significant effort in brushwork and detailing, but it is ignored because the bloomscale (1 value) is too high.

Did you even read the feedback? The bloom was not the only reason it didn't make it to the shortlist. The problem was that the map played very poorly; you didn't put enough effort into your gameplay.

 

[Panckakebro]

Did you even read the feedback? The bloom was not the only reason it didn't make it to the shortlist. The problem was that the map played very poorly; you didn't put enough effort into your gameplay.

The map has had at least 20 release versions with various game play tweaks. I put tons of effort in this and I started the week of, finished a couple hours before the deadline. I even changed the entire layout.

 

[Void]

As a neutral Staff member - I neither took part in the MvM contest nor did I judge any entries - I will have to remind those on both sides to stay civil and respectful of their peers.

Congratulations are in order for those that made the shortlist, and please keep in mind that making a shortlist is a very hard thing to do. I can surely say that the shortlist was not made out of malice or bad intentions, and we should be respectful of the outcome, even if for some, it didn't work in their favor.

Condolences to those that didn't make the cut, though I say to use this to motivate you! Improve upon your work and take the feedback into consideration, for not making a shortlist isn't the end of the world, but instead, an opportunity to improve. Take it as you will, and good luck to everyone moving forward!

 

[Another Bad Pun]

The map has had at least 20 release versions with various game play tweaks. I put tons of effort in this and I started the week of, finished a couple hours before the deadline. I even changed the entire layout.

It's great that you put a bunch of effort and time into your map, but effort alone won't put you ahead of other entrants. The overall quality of the final submission is what really matters, and is what the map was judged upon, nothing else.

 

[Da Spud Lord]

The map has had at least 20 release versions with various game play tweaks. I put tons of effort in this and I started the week of, finished a couple hours before the deadline. I even changed the entire layout.

I put plenty of effort into Cargoship, yet you don't see me bitching about my feedback because I recognize that I'm not perfect and that I can make mistakes and bad maps. Just because you tweaked the gameplay 20 times doesn't mean that the gameplay is suddenly perfect and that any criticism of your gameplay is totally unwarranted and wrong. I can make a million changes to Cargoship, that doesn't magically make it good. Putting out a map to a contest and then throwing a hissyfit when you get negative feedback from the judges isn't going to make you a better mapper, it's gonna make you look like a sore loser.

 

[Yabayabayaba]

I know it is too late, but for the records, I had a working version of mvm_chase, but in my sleep hazed state I uploaded the broken b1 version instead of the working a5. I am fixing the download now. I have been working around an unknown bug that reverts the map all the way to a1 layout, and I have fixed some of the things you have commented about. I know it is too late for the contest, but could a judge give some feedback?

Thanks,
-Yaba

 

[SnickerPuffs]

I was rather salty when I saw the shortlist. Sure, all these great maps were on the list, but why wasn't Helix included? After reading the feedback, however, it made more sense. Some problems with the map that I thought were minor were actually very major, and the inverse was equally true. I'll relay this information to the rest of the group, and with any luck we'll have a new version out soon.

This isn't going the stop the Halloween version coming out, though.

 

[Freyja]

in comparaison to a map that did make it to the shortlist : sequoia, i'm amazed that it actually made it with the massive spam of the same goddamn tree prop, some people would find that cool, i find that amazingly unimaginative.

You've got to be freaking kidding me, are you saying a forest shouldn't have trees?

 

[Yrr]

anyone who wants a properly written critique of their map rather than the rude/blunt notes i wrote please ask me

I'm gonna try and edit and elaborate on my notes and post them here, but there were some misunderstandings, and this was not the version of my notes i was intending to make public

 

[Fillmore]

I find it funny that I'm listed twice as a Dockyard dev (I assume it's because of the TF2maps name being different from the steam name?)

EDIT: Lol no, turns out the Sntr is just the old account I had here that I couldn't get my hands on anymore (realized it the moment I saw that Pinstripe avatar)

 

[Columbidae]

Thanks Doc(s)!

 

[Sexy Brioche]

Awesome work and congrats to all those who were pushed through! I also want to thank the judges for their notes. Feedback is greatly appreciated and I'll make sure to take all that was written into account before releasing the final version to the workshop.

 

[LeSwordfish]

Congrats to everyone else who made it on the shortlist.


Just a small question though, Hell-met is also a contributor to Barren, but he isn't mentioned here. Is it because of an oversight? I'm sure everything is fine and all when it comes to medal distribution, but it's never bad to be safe and check, no?

Yeah, don't worry, that's just me being dopey.