TF2Maps and Potato’s MvM Servers Present: Mappers vs Machines

Discussion in 'Contests' started by LeSwordfish, Apr 5, 2017.

  1. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

    Messages:
    4,079
    Positive Ratings:
    5,822
    Yeah, don't worry, that's just me being dopey.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  2. EArkham

    aa EArkham Necromancer

    Messages:
    1,529
    Positive Ratings:
    2,098
    To be fair, lots of trees make it very hard to see the forest.
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Benoist3012

    Benoist3012 L3: Member

    Messages:
    138
    Positive Ratings:
    200
    If that can help countering the "rigged contest theory", I'm not an active TF2Maps member, and I haven't joined any contest here in the past as a judge, this is my first time as judge and I'm a judge because I have experience in MvM and past work on it, I've been around the Potato's MvM Group since its early days, and even work with Hydrogen on some projects. I don't know many people here at TF2Maps.net, and I haven't joined any gamedays test for contest entries so I get a fresh look on everything, and yet what I see and point out is same as what the other judges are pointing out I don't see any rigging, a entry isn't rejected from the shortlist because we wanna make our "friends" win, no no, an entry is rejected because it has issues here and there that once combined make the map less enjoyable than another.
    Also rejected from shortlist =/= disqualified, you are still gonna get the contest medal.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  4. Blamnesia

    Blamnesia L1: Registered

    Messages:
    5
    Positive Ratings:
    3
    Lesson learend: never make your first map for a contest. oh well.
     
  5. Benoist3012

    Benoist3012 L3: Member

    Messages:
    138
    Positive Ratings:
    200
    No don't worry you did good, what you have learned is mapping experience and you will do better next, you can't do worse, your map has too many errors to be played without any game issues, but it's your first map nobody can do perfect on their first map, you should be proud of yourself for making an entry.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  6. Blamnesia

    Blamnesia L1: Registered

    Messages:
    5
    Positive Ratings:
    3
    You are right. As for this being my first map I am proud of what I did. maybe in the future ill be able to do even better. :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017
  7. Muddy

    Server Staff Muddy Muddy

    Messages:
    2,316
    Positive Ratings:
    3,912
    Noice.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Rytu

    Rytu L1: Registered

    Messages:
    34
    Positive Ratings:
    27
    As i said, i was midly upset, but you have to agree that spending months of work making an aestethics-based map to try to win the aestethic prize that wont even get a chance to get the aestethics prize because the pop files were poorly made by the contributor who's work that was ; and seeing maps that look extremely under-detailed or have entire parts of the map undetailed getting a shot at winning said prize because their pop were more fun is just amazingly depressing.
     
  9. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

    Messages:
    4,079
    Positive Ratings:
    5,822
    I'm sorry that the shortlist system caused problems for people who designed their maps for one specific prize. It was a necessary evil of the contest format, and I think some people are right to be aggrieved. However, there was really no way around it. If, as you say, your map was prevented from getting the aesthetics prize by the popfiles, then that's no more unfair than someone with an uglier but more fun map being unable to win Best gameplay.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  10. Rytu

    Rytu L1: Registered

    Messages:
    34
    Positive Ratings:
    27
    That's why the shortlist system, in my oppinion, is a terrible idea, i understand that 40+ maps is alot to judge upon but i'd say that taking the time to review everything is a much better alternative, even if time consuming, as it'll avoid unfair judgement. (atleast for public voting, as players generally have more time to test maps than developers)
    If you are going to implement a shortlist system atleast say so in the rules beforehand, and not a week after the contest ends, as adding arbitrary rules is a pretty shady thing to do to be honest.

    On that note, will every map be available for the public choice award ?
     
  11. Discharge

    Discharge L1: Registered

    Messages:
    1
    Positive Ratings:
    4
    Im not good at English very well. so sorry about that.

    It was my first MvM level.
    nav, map, waves, totally failed project but Im so appreciated I can submit map somewhere and be evaluated from other mappers. thank you!
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  12. Izotope

    aa Izotope Never releases maps

    Messages:
    551
    Positive Ratings:
    487
    You should design your map to have a chance to win in all categories, because it's harder to compete with the many beautiful maps in the aesthetics category.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  13. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

    Messages:
    4,079
    Positive Ratings:
    5,822
    It would have taken months to publically and fully judge forty-five maps. I'm very sorry I wasn't able to be clear about it sooner, but we've done enough contests to know that it's not really possible to get the public to vote on such a large scale. The last time we tried to was with the last 72hr contest - that was competitive maps not co-op (so easier to publically vote on) and we were asking people for a single 1-5 rating. Even so, it took more than six weeks.

    I'll admit, it was a major mistake to not state upfront that we might have needed a shortlist system - but I don't think it was an unfair or a shady thing to do. All I could have done was said "we reserve the right to change these rules if the number of entries forces us.) We changed the rules because we had to, not because we wanted to, and not because we were trying to rig it.

    Unfortunately only shortlisted maps will be available for any awards.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Qohen

    Qohen L1: Registered

    Messages:
    32
    Positive Ratings:
    10
    Wow, was actually counting on the public votes.. rip that part
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  15. Benoist3012

    Benoist3012 L3: Member

    Messages:
    138
    Positive Ratings:
    200
    Heads up everyone!
    As public voting has now started, we have opened a showcase server in EU ( courtesy of @Glubbable ), as all servers are in US it will probably better if you join that showcase server if you are living EU or if US servers go down (Murphy's law).
    On that server you will find the 16 selected maps, unfortunately we haven't setup the map change vote yet, so if you want to change map either finish a mission or ask an admin.
    The people listed in the spoiler have access to a basic list of commands ported from the US server, if you have an issue/request please send them a message through TF2Maps group chat.
    @Benoist3012
    @Glubbable
    @-Chillax-
    @LeSwordfish
    @Egan
    @Yrr
    @Muddy
    @Freyja
    @Fillmore (aka Sntr)

    sm_wave_start (!wave_start)
    sm_mission (!mission)
    sm_restart_wave (!restart_wave)
    sm_change_map (!change_map)
    sm_panic (!panic)

    Server IP: 188.165.207.20:27020
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017
  16. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

    Messages:
    6,388
    Positive Ratings:
    4,898
    I've been kind of the loop on this, so I'm coming into this with an outside perspective.

    Yes, spending months and months of work, time and energy on something that in the end, doesn't get recognized to the fullest you were expecting, sucks. I understand that far more than you might think and I know completely what that feels like. But calling a contest rigged is not the answer. Blaming your contributor, is not the answer. Going, Ah-Ha! you fell for me trap(card) is silly. It just makes you look selfish, entitled and immature, unable to take responsibility as a member of a team, or even being able to see your own faults as a member of that team. This contest is more than just looks, and pop files. It's also about working together with other designers and artists to create a coherent, well designed product to the best of their ability. You need everything to succeed.

    It is not the systems fault, the system isn't terrible, it's been used before to success. It's not your pop file makers fault. The maps were deemed unsuitable to make the cut in a very large pool of maps. So, quit with the complaints and have some dignity. Take this on the chin and have pride in what you made. Listen to the feedback that others have and will be giving you, and continue to improve on the maps.
     
    • Agree Agree x 18
  17. Diva Dan

    aa Diva Dan hello!

    Messages:
    767
    Positive Ratings:
    1,004
    I totally agree. Going forward I would like to see a shortlist for each category though for people who expected to enter into the respective judging area (detail, fun, etc). The current system is plenty fair, I just think that could be fairer. But that's just my stance.
     
  18. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

    Messages:
    4,079
    Positive Ratings:
    5,822
    It's definitely something to give more consideration to, if we run another contest in this style again.
     
  19. Aichten

    Aichten L1: Registered

    Messages:
    3
    Positive Ratings:
    6
    Even though I didn't make the shortlist, I had a blast during this contest and I got to release my first map! Big thanks to everyone who left feedback for beachfront.
    Good luck to all of the other mappers! :D
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  20. BenCo

    BenCo L5: Dapper Member

    Messages:
    240
    Positive Ratings:
    159
    Even though our map, Helix didn't get into the shortlist I'm still happy, because I worked with amazing people and got a lot of new knoweldge with hammer. I'm looking forward to any future contest in this stlye. Good luck for those who got into the shortlist!
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
    • Like Like x 1