KotH idolon_mc8 a3

funny spiral koth

  1. Idolon

    aa Idolon the worst admin

    Messages:
    1,864
    Positive Ratings:
    5,604
    idolon_mc8 - funny spiral koth

    KotH map made in about 4 hours for Microcontest 8. The idea was to fit a KotH map into a smaller overall space while maintaining walk times by wrapping the map around itself as an intertwined helix. Walk times ended up pretty short anyways but it might work?? Probably easy to spawncamp.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  2. Idolon

    aa Idolon the worst admin

    Messages:
    1,864
    Positive Ratings:
    5,604
    This actually turned out to be impossible to spawncamp because all the action was focused on the point. Rounds were fun, but really heavy on spam. The point switched hands often, which is great, but certain classes were struggling to find ground and others dominated. Teams need to be able to hold forward better, classes like spy and scout need ways to contribute to their team (pyro almost made this list but there is plenty for them to be reflecting), and sniper may need nerfing.

    I think the obvious thing here is to adjust respawn times since the map is considerably smaller than typical KotH (and there isn't a great way to increase that walk time in the map geometry without messing things up). This will allow teams who have just wiped the enemy a bit of rest / opportunity to push forward.

    The other main thing is allowing flank classes to cross the point safely, and this is less obviously solved, since there isn't much room to the "side" of the map to add a flank. A route under the point is the most obvious, but that will still require some disruption to implement. The other idea is to try and offer more cover in the mid and yard itself so getting into enemy territory is less suicidal.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. Idolon

    aa Idolon the worst admin

    Messages:
    1,864
    Positive Ratings:
    5,604
    a2

    -added fences to back dirt ramp route to force snipers further forward if they want that sightline
    -slightly expanded closet route to let players do more with it
    -removed crates on point to give players more width to cross the point (may backfire since point now has less cover overall)
    -adjusted respawn time for attacking team from 4s to 6s
    -adjusted respawn time for defending team from 8s to 10s

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
  4. Idolon

    aa Idolon the worst admin

    Messages:
    1,864
    Positive Ratings:
    5,604
  5. Idolon

    aa Idolon the worst admin

    Messages:
    1,864
    Positive Ratings:
    5,604
    The sketch I drew during the one-hour planning phase for the contest:

    koth spiral sketch (2).jpg
     
  6. Idolon

    aa Idolon the worst admin

    Messages:
    1,864
    Positive Ratings:
    5,604
    The test of a2a was interesting to watch as teams figured out how to play the map a bit better. Players were more able to play aggressively and hold forward in enemy territory on occasion, which was really exciting to watch! Adjusted respawn times may also be somewhat responsible for this.

    The main problem remains that weaker flanking classes (scout, spy) simply are not useful. The common feedback here is to enlarge the map and add routes to the side of the point. This doesn't seem like a great idea, since any route to the side of the point would basically come out underneath and behind where teams walk to the point, which would introduce very weird flow to a map that already has weird flow.

    Viaduct is a map that has no flank around the point, but it still works. Why? As best I can tell, its because the point is wider and the capzone doesn't extend the full width. This allows some dead space to the sides where scout can run without immediately being in the thick of the action, or for spy to run by with relatively low risk of getting spammed out.

    upload_2020-10-20_7-28-19.png
    (Credit to Yrrzy to pointing out how much dead space this point has, and how much mine doesn't have.)

    There are a variety of ways in which this does not transfer to the current design of my map's point. For one, it isn't very wide. Also, the side areas are currently occupied by a dedicated flank route, which is a good spot for many other classes and will attract spam to spies and scouts who might want to use it. Lastly, the map is designed without any middle routes to the point, so the bulk of each team only ever approaches the point from the sides, and consequently the sides of the point are already getting spammed out.

    upload_2020-10-20_7-30-0.png

    I think it would make sense to enlarge the point area a bit just to give everyone a bit more breathing room, including the weaker flanking classes like scout and spy. I don't think that the sides of the point will ever be great flanking paths since the bulk of each team will be watching both sides at all times, but it would allow a scout to at least have a chance of combat on the point. Widening the area would also allow for some cover in the middle of the point area (ala the rocks on either side of Viaduct mid) without making the area too claustrophobic.

    Since widening the point won't necessarily allow a spy through easily, I'm also considering a flank underneath the point. This is really the only place for an additional route to go. I am hesitant to add this since I think it will be very easy to spam out for defenders and not really be a useful route for anyone, but it might feel a bit more comfortable if the point area as a whole got wider. A few ideas:

    upload_2020-10-20_7-33-34.png
    (Redesign this area to mostly go below the point. This doesn't make a ton of sense because now one half of the routes out of spawn are dedicated to going under the point...)

    upload_2020-10-20_7-45-15.png
    (Repurpose the closet route to be a route under the point. This has the benefit of making the sides of the point into more dead space for scouts and spies, but I think where this route comes out would not be a fun dynamic since it is so close to a team's main hold. It'll either be too easy to spam out or very suddenly overwhelm a team's setup, never anything inbetween. Also, I like the dynamic this closet route has with the point and I don't really want to get rid of it.)

    upload_2020-10-20_7-41-0.png
    (This option makes the most sense to me. It would preserve the "pincer action" push onto the point that makes this map unique, and put the flank exit in a spot that seems to be in the sweet spot for usability vs. spamability. This redesign of the supports around the point would also introduce cover to the middle of the point area, ala the rocks on Viaduct mid [although I am unsure how useful that cover will be considering that nobody will be pushing from that direction, only from the sides].)


    EDIT: A second thought about this idea:
    [​IMG]

    This design might actually make some sense if the lower route was given more importance, by borrowing an idea from Reckoner / Shithole and putting the point on the low ground and letting the high ground spam down onto it.

    Putting the point on the low ground would give each path out of spawn a more distinct tactical choice. Also, since it would remove a path onto the high ground, that area would receive less spam and make it more viable for flanking classes to do their thing. The dynamic of rotating between the low ground and high ground would also be interesting.

    I think I will try this option for a3 and keep the other idea in my back pocket.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2020 at 1:55 PM
  7. Idolon

    aa Idolon the worst admin

    Messages:
    1,864
    Positive Ratings:
    5,604
    a3

    -slightly enlarged map (128 units in x and y)
    -lowered ground level on one approach to point to open route underneath point area
    -changed cap to mini-nipple for cover, height variation, and shrunk overall area

    Read the rest of this update entry...