Contest #50: Rule of Threes [MINOR CONTEST] [VOTING]

Idolon · Mar 30, 2021

Minor Contest voting ends April 25th, 2021,11:59 PM (23:59) GMT. If turnout is low, voting will be extended an extra week.

Playtests will be held regularly. Join our Discord or our Steam Group to be notified whenever a map test starts!

Maps will be scored on a 1 to 5 scale, using 3 as an average score. Use decimals if you must, but the intent here is that you shouldn't think too hard about the exact score for every map. There are 20 maps to score!

Maps may be updated during the voting phase. You are not required to have played the latest version of a map to vote on it. Just vote based on what you have played!

A ballot must contain scores for at least 14 maps to count. You may not vote for your own map, obviously. Ballots may be thrown out by discretion of staff. A public log will be kept of any ballots that are disqualified for the sake of transparency.

If you wish to submit your ballot privately, DM it to me on the forums. Any private ballots will be made public at the end of voting for the sake of transparency.

Use this table to cast your votes:

Code:

[table=head]
MAP | SCORE
3flags |
Affront |
Altitude |
Arrival |
Chestnut Woods |
Cinders |
Crawdad |
Dayspring |
Gratuite |
Gridiron |
Gushdown |
Ibex2021 |
Kennecott |
Mache |
Mot |
Pullsnake |
Rumford |
ro3md |
Spacewar |
Watergarden |
[/table]

nesman · Mar 30, 2021

I made a map pack. 4/11/2021.

Already outdated.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19aiPrG4ZIVJYi0HdQriwxZsZEGRF9Myo/view?usp=sharing

Emil_Rusboi · Mar 31, 2021

DoctorDoomtrain64 · Apr 1, 2021

Will get back to this one, I remember liking it but I only played it twice and didn't even get to see point C since the game came to a halt at B.

Altitude | 4 |

Very fun map with an interesting layout and theme. Each area feels nice and distinct and is very fun to play around in. However, some of the routing can be confusing, and I've often seen point A be completely rolled by Blu.

Arrival | 1 |

Map is just very large and flat. The gamemode is very confusing on top of that, and it just feels like there's a bunch of prop spam rather than a thought out layout.

Chestnut Woods | 1 |

Everything feels really cramped and the layout just doesn't hit the mark at all. It feels like a bunch of prop spam.

Cinders | 3 |

A fun map, the fire pit by last is an interesting set piece, but otherwise the layout is just sort of bland. Walk times between points are on the long side, but almost every round of the map I've played seems very attacker sided, especially for C.

Crawdad | 1 |

Assets weren't properly packed, map feels like it was very rushed into beta, on top of the Half-Life textures just simply not fitting into TF2. The gamemode is very underwhelming. The existence of the Neutral Flag completely relinquishes the need to even consider going into the enemy base since a player can just grab the intel and easily make their way back to their own base without much resistance.

Dayspring | Updated to a8 | Oh now that's pretty poggers
Gratuite | 2 |

It was a nice attempt at the Domination gamemode, but it falls flat in a lot of areas. The layout is very flat, and the map has a little TOO much height, while at the same time, the control points areas, A and C especially, are very cramped and makes both attacking AND defending them very cumbersome and claustrophobic. The layout doesn't lend itself very well to the gamemode, especially since the layout tends to just completely bypass B.

Gridiron | 3 |

Will get back to this, I had some fun on it but need to play more to get better thoughts about it.

Gushdown | 1 |

It feels like someone's first or second map. The layout and geometry feels random and the height is all out of whack, on top of it feeling a little overscaled, mainly in terms of height. On top of that, the bloom is WAY too strong for players with HDR, it's downright blinding and gave me a headache.

Ibex2021 | 3 |

The map is fun for the most part. The layout is interesting, but the routing feels off, it leaves Blue pretty disjointed and makes pushing into C pretty difficult. I feel like the distance the cart has to travel between A and B is very long on top of that.

Kennecott | 1 |

This is very obviously the person's first map. It's WAY overscaled to the point where it's practically unplayable. It's difficult for me to really say anything about the layout itself since it's just so gigantic and flat.

Mache | 5 |

This is a VERY fun map. A is probably my favourite point on the map, the height on the point and it's surrounding area makes it very fun to both attack and defend, plus the sufficient flanks make it less daunting to attack it's high ground. B is fun as well, and it's a good distance from A, allowing Red enough time to build a defense before Blue arrives, making it so Red actually has a chance to defend. For C, I do feel it's the overall weakest of the 3 points. The staircase that Red has to traverse out of spawn, while they make sense since Red needs that small buffer between their spawn and C, feels awkward to traverse. The side entrance is fine however, but I rarely see Red defend it successfully, at least on the times I've played it

Mot | 4 |

I REALLY like the idea of this map, and most of the stages are good to boot. I find that stage 3 is the best of the three, followed by Stage 1, with Stage 2 being the weakest. Stage 1 has such a fun and interesting layout. Stage 3's midpoint is such a fun point to play around and makes for so many fun altercations. Unfortunately, Stage 2 brings it down a bit, it's fun, rather bland in comparison to the other two stages.

Pullsnake | 3 |

The map is just okay. There may be some fatigue just from seeing it so often, but while the layout is solid, it just never stood out to me outside of the frequency that I've played it. The opening area towards A is fun, but it teeters off after that, and the rest of the map just feels very "meh."

Rumford | 5 |

This is SUCH a good map. I have fun on it every time it's played.The areas from the start all the way past point B is such a fun ride with nice height variation and a fun layout that's always fun to fight in. However, it drops off a tiny bit once Blue starts attacking C. the area around it feels a little less interesting to fight in, but it's still fun nonetheless

ro3md | 3 |

The map is fun, and the attempt at a 3CP Steel-type map is a welcome one, however the 3CP style doesn't lend itself to well to a Steel-type in this case. There's very little incentive for Blue to attack A or B, since capping even one of them makes attacking C SO much harder for Blue, when it should really be the other way around. The one way door that Red has access to after a point is capped makes matters worse. I'd like to see where this map goes, but right now it ends up being too Red sided unless Blue goes for C immediately.

Spacewar | N/A | Pulled from contest
Watergarden | 2 |

I'm gonna come back to this one since the only time I played the server was only half-full. To start with positives, the map was pretty fun, I really like the Tug-of-War concept for A/D, and I really like the height in the map, it creates interesting gameplay. Although, that's the last of the positives for now. The map has a lot of gameplay spaces that just don't get used or don't really have much of a reason for people to go to them. And while the game mode is interesting, as it is right now, it makes the matches VERY stalematey if the teams are relatively balanced, since time gets added every time Blue caps but Red being able to push back makes the timer go up very fast, plus it seems that Blue team can't revert captures which makes the process worse since if Blue loses any momentum, it's lost for good and Blue effectively has to start over, and that ends up just repeating ad infinitum

All of these are subject to change, so I'm gonna keep coming back periodically

Mâché · Apr 2, 2021

Tang · Apr 3, 2021

MAP | SCORE
3flags | 2
Affront | I cannot vote for my own map

Will update as voting goes on

nesman · Apr 3, 2021

MAP | SCORE | NOTES
3flags | 1 |

This gamemode felt like it was originally meant to be 1 flag rather than 3. It felt like you stitched 2 more flag onto the gamemode to make it meet the contest requirements. Most of the time I did not know what was going on while playing the map.

Affront | 3 |

I like A point, B point it felt like engineers couldn't defend at the point rather they were in the lobby behind it. C point was weird because of how blu team keeps trickling in rather than coordinating a push.

Altitude | 3 |

I do not like what you did with the main connector between A and B, it made it so blu could easily skip A and start flanking towards B. C felt like a mosh pit. B point was interesting to attack but felt hard to defend, I haven't really seen it defended before in the latest version.

Arrival | 1 |

The idea is interesting but the execution was not done well. I would work on the layout.

Chestnut Woods | 1 |

Poor fps, tight gameplay, didn't feel like it got really tested or changed between updates. Take this map as a learning step in hammer and keep going at it.

Cinders | 3 |

Last felt like a blood bath for both teams. At some point we were just spamming out all the entrances into it with explosive classes or pyros. I like A point so far. B point felt weird to attack especially with the drop down (I understand it is there to force you to commit in order to use it).

Crawdad | 1 |

leaking map, missing textures, broken skybox.

Dayspring | 2 |

A point felt like it was very hard to defend as red. One way doors are hard to design around, I think B could do without the route there for red as it made it hard to push in a blu when we couldn't push red back at that flank. C point is a neat idea with the saw but I would have that be after the final point is capped and not the trigger in order to cap it.

Gratuite | 3.5 |

Well made. I did feel that players were spread out too much.

Gridiron | 3 |

Pass time is a hard gamemode to work with with I applaud you for doing that. I felt that there was a larger amount of stalemates in the mid area of the map than other pass time maps.

Gushdown | 1 |

This feels like it was a first map. That is completely fine. Take the feedback you can get from test and learn how to improve. It didn't feel like it was scaled for tf2, nothing was clipped (at least anything that made sense), and you didn't seem to compile with LDR???

Ibex2021 | 3.5 |

This is an interesting map. On last it felt like there were almost too many flanks between B and C. I did not like the area leading up to A, I think main path felt alright but the flanks just felt off to me (I'll try and elaborate more at some point). I did have a lot of fun playing it, so it could have just been weird luck.

Kennecott | 1 |

This map felt wide, opened, and overscaled. It felt like this map was not playtested.

Mache | 3 |

I had a rough time as playing engineer on B/C point. After A is capped I never have enough time to setup, feels like the point might be too close? A point is alright but in the latest test I was in, it felt like red was able to rotate too easily between the lower route to shut out our small flank.

Mot | 4 |

First stage is good. The second stage is probably my favorite. Third stage felt weird to gain high ground for either team. Made me enjoy koth with each round being a different stage. -- I think after you updated it 3rd stage got much better.

Pullsnake | 2 |

Last felt messy. The first two point are alright just a little boring and open.

Rumford | Updated to a7 | onion rings
ro3md | 3 |

Last felt easy to hold. As blu I kept having players appear behind me when it seemed like I was in a safe spot.

Spacewar | withdrawn |

A neat concept with ToW. The times I played the map it always ended in a stalemate. I would focus on adding forward spawns (and not teleporters) and optimization passes.

Watergarden | 1 |

The concept is cool. I kept getting lost in the outer areas of the map, felt like it had a lot of wasted space.

Will update my votes as I get the chance to play the maps.

Another Bad Pun · Apr 4, 2021

Tiftid · Apr 5, 2021

Alright, here are my scores as of now, with reasoning so that I don't just get called a crackpot who rated these maps without playing them. For the record, I did play all of the maps that I've voted on (except Chestnut Woods). Still, though, the idea is that you'll be convinced that I know what I'm doing if my reasoning is good enough.
For the record, I've tried to feedback everything that's part of my reasoning - if I haven't feedbacked something, it's because I realised it in the course of writing this post. I haven't intentionally held back information from mappers with the goal of slamming them with a low score.
Obviously, all of this is subject to change if the maps change. Though, I think most mappers have used their two updates already, which means that they don't submit their maps to imps, which means that a lot of these slots are going to be empty until some kind of gameday happens. Oh well.

MAP | SCORE | REASONING
3flags | 1 |

I constantly felt confused on this map due to how unclear the gamemode is, which is already a huge point against it, but I'll try to evaluate it based on what I understand - which is that there are three flags which spawn in unmemorable locations, which have 20 second timers that constantly run, and you need to take one to the enemy spawn and wait for its timer to end. And, after its timer ends, it explodes and respawns. This is needlessly confusing, and way worse than symmetrical 3CP since teams can wait for the timer on their flag to almost be over, then rocket jump into the enemy spawn while they're distracted and instantly win the game. Furthermore, there's little point to having multiple flags when it only takes one to win, and this ends up nullifying the main advantage of flag-based gamemodes - that the front line centres around the flag. The layout also doesn't do this map any favours - as previously stated, its different areas are unmemorable, it's generally small, teams spawn right next to their "bombsites" and there's so much cover on the bombsite that winning can be almost totally down to the attacking team cheesily hiding in a corner. The routes are the major strength, since they're not all that split from each other, preventing sneaky backcaps to an extent - however, due to how the gamemode functions, sneaky backcaps will always be possible unless teams hold their spawn, which they can easily do, thereby forcing a stalemate.

Affront | 3 |

While I complain about the mechanics on A, I've come to realise that they're quite good for a first point. RED has a "forward hold" in that their route from spawn has health and watches the point, but their best sentry spots will always be inside the A building themself. This means that BLU will naturally leverage the roof to push RED back into their route from spawn, then use their ubers to clear RED out of the point, then try to survive onto the point until they cap, whereupon RED engages in their "backwards hold" where they try to use their route from spawn as leverage over the point. All well and good - however, I feel that the map is very much let down by B and C; while RED are given ample time to set up on B, their setup largely involves watching one area which all of BLU's routes exit into, and if BLU make one strong push, they kinda just lose B, since no sentry spots they have are any good, or hold spots behind B for that matter. C is a little better, because RED has to split up more to hold forward. One side favours close-range classes and the other long-range, with some interplay between them, and they have a kind of "final hold" where they try to stay alive on C itself, but this is let down by the fact that C's cap time is just a little too short, and one good push from BLU tends to have them abuse that cap time, as well as the cover on the point, to take C almost every time. So, like Rumford, while this map has one very fun point, the other two need a bit of work.

Altitude | 2.5 |

This map, I feel, like Cinders, is held back by the geometry surrounding its points. A is really close to BLU spawn, to the point where if RED loses their initial hold over BLU spawn, they're almost certain to lose A. This is compounded by the fact that the connector between A and B is a chokey maze where the routes are very far apart and far from A itself - these routes also don't lead to any kind of strong defensive position over A, so A feels nearly impossible to hold for an extended period of time. The distance between A and B is also kinda short, and the connector between A and B makes it as easy for BLU to reach the roof over B as it is for RED - this means that as RED tries to hold B, they have to be haunted by the fact that BLU players are on the roof, which denies any kind of decent sentry spot and is too difficult for them to contest while also contesting the point. Finally, C suffers from BLU's front line being very, very close to the point, and it consisting of a few thin doorways that are far apart - this combined with the health therein makes it very hard for RED to engage in any kind of forward hold - they have to stay on the point, and Engineers can't ever hope to set up, because the instant they try to build something, BLU players see and hear it, swarm in and destroy it. The only thing that gives RED any kind of hope of defending is the fact that the point's cap time is pretty long, and RED spawn very close to the point, so even when they get cleared off the point, they can flow back in and try to clear BLU off the point. However, this leaves it with the same problem as Cinders, where RED now has to try to defend the point with no setup and with a lot of progress on the point.

Arrival | 1 |

The gamemode was confusing, although it made sense after one round, when I figured out that it was basically invade CTF but with an SD flag and three different deposit locations. I guess in a sense that makes it something like multi-stage symmetrical 3CP? Well, in any case, it was hard and unfun to attack, since all the deposit locations were too close to the enemy spawn, and owning the flag didn't give you a forward spawn. In addition to this, all the combat spaces were very square, very flat, and suffered from propspam, in the sense that props were placed to block sightlines or enhance theme, without consideration of what things are actually fun to play around, and what constitutes distinct "routes" which offer advantages to different classes.

Chestnut Woods | 1 |

Well, what can I say about this one? It's a first map. The scale is way too small, there are props everywhere which don't really create interesting gameplay dynamics and we have every reason to suspect that it was compiled with cordon (resulting in terrible framerates, since every part of the map can see everywhere else).

Cinders | 2 |

This would get a higher score from me, were it not that I get such a feeling that the points are let down by the surrounding geometry. A is interesting, having the trains which act as a quick route to the point but allow players to drop down and be relatively safe, but the fact that it makes the point a large open plane leaves RED only able to set up in the lower area, and the lower area doesn't give them any meaningful kind of leverage over BLU, so they either have to hold ultra far forward and inevitably get pushed back and uber-pushed, or try to hold behind the point and still get uber-pushed. Holding forward would be more possible if the forward hold wasn't closer to BLU's spawn than it is to RED's, giving BLU an insane advantage, and this'd make the point much better and more interactive. Apart from this, B is a textbook example of "being let down by surrounding geometry" - it has a tendency to roll, because BLU can get to it almost as fast as RED can. This creates the wrong kind of variance, where some rounds the point doesn't even see one push, whereas in others it holds for the whole round, which isn't bad on its own, but it feels terrible to be held on a point you felt was easy due to its tendency to roll. In fact, because it rolls so often, I don't have anything to say about how B plays - I just haven't seen it enough. C kinda has the same problem as A - while it's interesting and has high and low ground, and good sentry spots, all of that doesn't matter, since BLU gets a staging area very close to the point that's very, very hard for RED to push into, so they can always flow out of that area with an uber push and destroy any defense RED has set up. However, this is mitigated by a short respawn time for RED and long cap time for the point itself, allowing RED to respawn, come back and clear BLU off the point before they capture. While this at least plays better than A, I don't see it as a good dynamic for a last point, since after BLU does one push onto C, their progress will remain for quite a while, meaning they can fairly easily push back in and cap the point. This is made much easier for them since they've already destroyed RED's entire setup, so RED sorta just has to watch it happen. This wouldn't be so much of a problem if BLU didn't have that high-ground window - they can drop down from it any time they like, and RED can't stop them from doing it, since they can't go up there themself.

Crawdad | 1 |

The custom assets weren't packed, the layout was cramped (favouring explosive classes over all else) and the bridge at mid was unimaginative, seeming to offer players a cool dynamic where they either play up on the bridge or take cover under it, but killing them when they tried to drop down to very safe-looking ground. Furthermore, the modification to CTF didn't help the gamemode much at all, since it just transformed it into a new gamemode where teams took the neutral flag back to their base to win, since it was just way easier to take the neutral flag than the enemy flag. It made it way more like KOTH than CTF, which might not be a bad thing on its own, but seeing an enemy Scout take the neutral flag back to their base to score was frustrating because it was just unstoppable, and in a contest about maps with three objectives, having one objective invalidate the other two isn't a good look.

Dayspring | 2 |

This map is comprised primarily of massive open planes, with the occasional building flank acting as an entrance or exit to those open planes. This isn't an inherent issue, it just needs to be executed well to be fun. For instance, on A, it feels like RED can use height to cover themself from BLU's attacks, and it feels like they have a half-decent forward hold, and can retreat from it easily enough, it's not just one box in which sniper rules. However, B and C don't pull it off quite as well. The entire attack on B involves BLU pushing through a very wide corridor into a very big box, with the only flanks being easily able to be seen by snipers in the big box without them even having to move. This also creates an unfun dynamic where, after capping A, BLU starts to push the cart to B, but get repelled by the respawning and healthy RED players - then, RED push forward, meaning the cart is in the middle of the big B box, and snipers can prevent BLU from touching it with the utmost ease. Payload is generally more fun when BLU can touch the cart if they really want to - it gives them health, ammo and cover, and makes overtime feel tense. Attacking C isn't much better than attacking B - it involves BLU pushing through one big room into one massive room. RED can only hold the big room, since once BLU pushes past it, they can see absolutely everything RED tries to do and have the health and ammo of the cart to support them, so BLU's victory feels inevitable if they have a medic. On top of this, holding the big room isn't that fun since it's so big, meaning explosive classes, scouts and engineers feel worthless, since their weapons are worthless at range (and engineer has 0 good building spots), while sniper feels like a king. This wouldn't be such a problem if there was even one flank that encouraged close-range combat, but there simply isn't.

Gratuite | 3.5 |

My experience of this map was pretty positive. Both A and B felt pretty fun playing as Engie, and the gamemode is one that naturally encourages class balance in that you choose from spawn to go to any one of three different points, each one of which has mechanics that suit different classes. The problem arises in the fact that a team needs to own all three points to win - this means that teams who own more of the class who the point favours are at an automatic advantage. However, this is somewhat solved by the fact that the enemy team has the ability to try to take your points back, which means that you're incentivised to defend them, so you can still go to the point which favours your class. However, this means that you have to be confident that your snipers can win C, otherwise you need to try to do it yourself, which will end up being hard, not fun, and carry a risk of your other points being taken back. Still, though, I feel that the map design and gamemode design interact pretty well, even if the gamemode might be made better by incorporating modified KOTH (or PD) logic so that the game cannot stalemate by any means other than no point ever being captured.

Gridiron | 2 |

This map doesn't really do anything that other PASS TIME maps don't. It's huge, making me feel weak as any class with close-range weapons and low mobility, it's stalematey because not much stops me from hard camping my own spawn to stop the enemy team from winning - in addition to this, the map attempts to use height in a meaningful way, but I feel that it's the wrong way - it's hard to throw the ball between areas, because said areas are split by a really tall wall or you're underground and can only throw it forward or backward. This serves to make the routes to the goal more campable, and even when you bamboozle the enemy team by throwing the ball over a fence, more often than not most of your team will be dead and the enemy team will get their hands on the ball anyway, since you're really close to the enemy spawn. Even trying to do sick tricks at mid won't help you, since you have to take the ball to the enemy base anyway, and if you're throwing a ball to your teammates at mid before you die, they're most likely not going to have the numbers to take over the goal in their push.

Gushdown | 1 |

This would also appear to be someone's first map. It has obvious layout no-nos, like two exits from RED's spawn leading to totally different areas with no routes between them - this is a no-no since if RED goes to the wrong point, which seems easy enough to do on this map, they can't easily rotate to a different point. From the very little I saw, the map was comprised mainly of fairly long corridors - this is something you want to avoid, since different routes should favour different classes, and two identical corridors won't favour any class differently to each other - official maps tend to do it way more interestingly, like all those Payload maps that use displacements to create big open areas, then put buildings in them which have health and ammo, offering close-range, high-health classes a spot to retreat to, a place for BLU to attack and a place for RED to watch the payload from. Also, the map was apparently compiled with only HDR, which meant that for players who didn't have HDR enabled in their graphics settings, a console command - mat_fullbright - was set to 1, which they couldn't change without cheats, which meant that they needed to leave the server in order to stop all maps they played after Gushdown from being ugly fullbright.

Ibex2021 | 2 |

I think the point design holds this map back a lot. A is simply a choke with a building right next to it, very close to RED spawn - this makes it very easy for RED to set up on, and hold this area, and the choke makes it really easy for them to hold in front of the cart whenever they kill all of BLU, creating a forward hold that makes their defense even stronger. Ibex has attempted to balance this by moving A forward such that BLU can cap it without interacting too much with the choke, but all this means is that A falls to one successful push and RED feels slighted that, while their skills in holding were perfectly good, they're now at a massive disadvantage because their spawn changed because the BLU medic pressed right-click. While the connector between A and B is fun enough to play in, RED doesn't get nearly enough time to set up in it, because the moment BLU takes the A area, they can start pushing the cart towards B, getting about halfway through the connector before RED even shows up. This, combined with the connector giving BLU substantial high ground over B, forces RED to try to defend the B building instead of the connector, which leaves them vulnerable to losing B to one uber-push. And, in the case of C, BLU gets a choke into a large open area, with both alternate routes being high ground for them. This means that, once BLU push into the choke, RED is forced to try to hold the large open area, while getting sniped from the choke and rained down on from high ground that's hard for them to even physically access. They can't avoid this without pushing forward, but trying to push forward means they get sniped and rained on, or a heavy is waiting for them behind the choke.

Kennecott | 1 |

Well, not much to say about this one - it was just massive. The hugeness and squareness of every gameplay space drowned out all other concerns about the gameplay, because in the end it just boiled down to "play sniper or die".

Mache | 4.5 |

For the longest time, I thought that this map deserved a 4, because I didn't like how A played and the fact that B rolled, but the map has been updated such that B no longer rolls, and A is indeed a big contributor towards that. Specifically, A plays such that RED holds a slope and window room behind it, and the point itself is on a platform with cover that's quite far away from RED's slope. This gave me terror that RED's hold would be vulnerable to uber pushes (which it kinda is) and that the point would feel uninteractive since the cover on the point makes it too easy for BLU to get and stay on the point, but as it turns out, RED has a sort of mini forward hold where they try to stop BLU from getting on the ramps up to the point, and when that forward hold is lost, they naturally retreat down the slope and let A get captured. This means that, while A feels perhaps too easy to lose, RED has a substantially better chance of holding B than they would on an A point where BLU had to kill the whole of RED to cap A, letting Mache get away with a very short walk time between A and B, making B feel balanced for BLU to attack without changing spawns, which is a big help for engineers, and makes it so that the initial push onto B and subsequent pushes after the initial push fails feel the same as each other and the point doesn't roll. This, in my mind, is exemplary, 5-star design, with the only weakness right now being that the routes between A and B make it a bit too hard to attack B. The biggest weakness of the map in my mind is C - it involves two rectangular routes which are very close to each other and RED spawn, making it feel a lot like BLU is just pushing into a meat grinder - the different routes don't offer anything different to different classes, making it so that both are just a firestorm of explosive spam and low-health classes just get melted. C also has the dynamic I described in Cinders, where RED is vulnerable to getting uber-pushed, but the point's cap time is long, so they can respawn and come back before it's capped - however, I feel that this C is better, since it's so close to RED spawn and so easy to set up on that RED can be as set up after all being killed as they were after losing B, which makes every push feel fair and not as if RED's being edged towards an inevitable defeat. While I'm not interested by C, I feel that it works well enough, and that A and B are interesting enough (though B has the small problem of its attack not being very fun right now) that this map deserves 4.5/5.

Mot | 2.5 |

Well, unsurprisingly enough, the stage that was worked on for the longest time turned out to be the best, deserving of a 4. However, the other two stages suffer from being too small - as detailed in my KOTH guide,

7) It must not be possible for somebody on the team which owns the point to die, respawn and return to the point before the enemy team captures. This is because if players can just die and return to the point while the enemy team's trying to capture, they can easily touch the point and stall forever, making the point hard to capture and thus easier to hold than push. The respawn time and walk time combined should be substantially longer than the capture time because your teammates can stall the point while you're dead, allowing you to more easily return. This isn't something that should be impossible, but rather extremely hard to do. An example I quickly grabbed: Highpass. It has a roughly similar point capture time and respawn wave time, but the walk time is over double those.

Also, the first stage suffers from it being really easy to shoot enemies across the entire length of the point area, making it hard for them to reach the point. The map's score is heavily hampered by the stages that suffer from this, because you have to play through all three stages, when on any other KOTH map you get one stage, and if it's bad you can just go play another map. For this reason, I believe 3KOTH to be heavily flawed, since it takes a LOT of effort on the part of the mapper for it to even be as fun as regular KOTH, and even if they do that, while it creates slightly more variance than regular KOTH, all three stages need to have very unique designs to achieve that variance, and the stages on this map are only... kinda unique. Time advantage doesn't help this, since KOTH has a three-minute timer for a reason. There's an expected number of pushes that will happen, and lowering that number of pushes just takes excitement out of the gamemode. It's at odds with itself, wanting to reward players for winning previous stages but not having any good method of doing that, since we want all three stages to individually be good KOTH maps.

Pullsnake | 2 |

I feel that this map ultimately suffers from having too few routes. While A has its hill, which acts as a nice staging area for both teams to approach the point and facilitates a dynamic where RED is naturally pushed back over time, BLU only has two routes and they feed into the exact same place, and if they uber-push, they take the point, meaning that RED's spawn changes, meaning that the surviving RED players can't really hold, so A is missing any kind of "forward-hold" dynamic. The long track length between A and B should help RED to set up on B, but somehow I've still only seen B roll - my guess as to why is because RED spawn too far from it, so they can't hold forward, and its defensive positions aren't nearly strong enough even if RED can set up on it, so they just get rolled most rounds. And as for C, it suffers from the exact same problem as A, where all of BLU's routes feed into the exact same place, so the point just becomes an uninteresting meat grinder. The exception is when BLU pushes into the point - RED's respawn time is short enough that their hold can be broken, but they still respawn and come back before C is taken. While this would serve to create a back-and-forth where RED goes back to their original hold after they clear BLU off the cart, it ends up being better than their original hold, since the cart remains near the end of the track, meaning that RED can easily hold in front of it, denying BLU health, ammo and cover.

Rumford | 3 |

I'm getting a bit lazy after having written so much, so I'll copy-paste a lot of this from feedback.tf2maps.net. I feel that the design of A and C is lacking on this map - A is just a box where BLU swarms in with uber, there's nothing more or less to it, losing the point feels inevitable. This is followed by RED holding the choke right after A, since their spawn doesn't change when A is capped, so they just come right back. However, I don't find the choke-hold after A fun, since RED can easily occupy a 256x256 box and watch all possible routes for BLU, as well as hold in front of the cart if they ever win a fight. While C doesn't suffer from these problems, RED consistently fails to set up on it, despite having a long track length between B and C, and a delay mechanic in the form of a turntable between the two. My suspicion as to why this is is that the defensive positions on C are just weak - every sentry spot gets outranged or corner-camped, and the high ground doesn't have nearly enough leverage over BLU for how hard it is for RED to move around on it. The best RED can hope to do is hold the choke leading up to C, and pray that BLU doesn't break that hold, otherwise they lose the point. However, B is fun, and I know that a new version's in the works with the goal of addressing A and C, so hopefully I can soon change this rating to a 4 or even 5.

ro3md | 1.5 |

I ultimately feel that the points are far too close to each other and each team's spawns, meaning RED can't hope to hold B, and their hold on A is unstable, since they can't have a real "forward hold", which means one successful push from BLU means that BLU will cap A and B without fail. On top of this, C is insanely hard for BLU to cap, owing to the fact that it has a long cap time, RED spawn too close to it and it's too hard for BLU to reach the point - this means that RED has a very powerful forward hold, and even when BLU breaks it, RED can not only hold the point, but lose that hold, die, respawn, come back and clear BLU off the point before BLU cap. In addition to this, the map is a steeltype, but it's not laid out in such a way that while contesting A or B, it feels realistic for BLU to contest C for a long enough time to capture it - this is partially due to the fact that RED spawn way too close to the point. This means that the map may as well be linear A/D CP, since BLU will always capture A and B instead of ending the round early by capping C, because A and B are both really easy to capture in that A is so close to BLU's spawn that RED can't hope to have a stable forward hold (and so lose A in one good push), and A is so close to B that RED can't set up on B, because when they all die and BLU start capping A, BLU players start to move forward and contest them on B, with access to the health and ammo they'd normally have, which is designed to be powerful enough to break even a strong hold.

Spacewar | Withdrawn from contest |
Watergarden | |

Edit 08/Apr/2021 - Gave Mot a rating of 2.5, and gave reasoning for that rating
Edit 11/Apr/2021 - Gave Gushdown and 3flags a rating of 1, gave Dayspring a rating of 2, gave reasoning for these ratings and increased Altitude's rating from 2 to 2.5, since A has been changed and now plays much better, and as a result of the A->B connectors being improved, B also plays a bit better. However, C is still impossible and not very fun to defend, and the attack on B for BLU is sorta painful since the A -> B connector is still just so wide, meaning that they can't engage in roof gameplay without the looming fear of being pushed from behind, which makes it very, very hard, and not very fun, to attack.
Edit 12/Apr/2021 - Gave ro3md a rating of 1.5, gave Affront a rating of 3 and gave Kennecott, Crawdad, and Arrival a rating of 1, also giving reasoning for all of these ratings. Decreased Mache's rating from 5 to 4.5, since B has a tendency to roll, and even when it doesn't, it's not that fun to attack, with all entrances being able to be watched from the same defensive positions.
Edit 22/Apr/2021 - No longer specified that Rumford's rating applies to A5, since I have played A7, and feel it deserves the same rating and reasoning.

Wilson · Apr 5, 2021

Kill_the_Bug · Apr 5, 2021

MAP | SCORE
3flags |
Affront | 3 |

Oh boy, where do I start? map put together well even though I was totally lost in the red base for the first 5 mins of playing, literally ran around for 2-5 minutes trying to find some one or the front line, eventually hear fighting and followed the sound to gt there. Last cap has spawn room with in a spawn room, needs to get removed. As an attacking pyro, I was almost able to kill the entire red team and cap the point at one point, if the timer had been faster I could have done it, also hard for red to set up at that point

Altitude | 4 |

I had a lot of fun on this map and it's fairly well designed, just need to work on the exit when you get to the top of the stairs (near the death cliff) so blue can build up an attack - never saw the last point.

Arrival | 1 |

WTF? two spawn room exits at the start one exit leads to battle the other to a spawn room. Didn't get the concept of it having in separate rooms type of thing. Nice first attempt though

Chestnut Woods | 2 |

Would have been nice to be able to move inside blue's starting spawn and didn't like some of the hidden rooms - should have been doors that open/close. Almost impossible to Cap A - on the right you have a dead end tunnel that I assume opens on cap = no right flank at all. On the left side you have to squeeze yourself through tiny little halls and when you pop out through the door you get killed by sentries and other players shooting into the barrel of fish. The payload path is also in this tight little box that just makes it another kill zone for the red team. We all played hugely overscaled maps, this one is the complete opposite, I felt trapped and couldn't move. Never saw anything past point A

Cinders | 4 |

Ever play one of those maps where you say, "The map's ok but there's something about it that I don't like." but you can't put your finger on it? That's the feeling I had with this map.

Crawdad | 1 |

OMG my eyes, map not packed right but I can overlook that aspect of the map. What I couldn't overlook was the cheap kill imposed by the map maker. I run out the door, jump into the water to get killed by an alligator only to find out that there's a no swimming sign tucked in around the corner where you CAN'T see it you then say WTF?

Dayspring | 2 |

I liked the map, didn't enjoy getting shot from behind when trying to push the cart forward at the start of the map. Sawblade was fun

Gratuite | 2 |

Small starting spawns, hard to get onto point b from the sides if you're a non-jumping class and I never get these long curved halls i.e. point c - where you're not a ranged fighter class i.e. pyro - you're dead before you can get anywhere near the point or the dude shooting you - there's no cover there.

Gridiron | 3 |

Can only give is a 3, I really didn't get a chance to play it and when I did it was only for five minutes

Gushdown | 2 |

I mean, I love design and making it look completely different but I got totally lost and ran into parts that were only made for jumping classes i.e. water fall spot - you need helpers there to help out the other non-jumping classes. Good effort

Ibex2021 | 3 |

Payload is my preferred game mode and hence most of my maps are payload. You have an interest layout, still needs some work

Kennecott |1|

massive sightline issues[/spolier]
Mache | 3 |

Fighting at A was good, Getting to B sucked, C point was ok.

Mot | 3 |

I have been able to figure out why some koth maps have the spawn points so far from the action. I join, I die, I spawn and want to get killed again but don't want to have to run a marathon to do it

Pullsnake | 4 |

Loved this map - had absolutely no idea what was going on and I loved it. Had a lot of fun on it. Gave it 4/5 because I didn't know what was going on. BUT I HAD FUN!!

Rumford | 5 |

Great map! Very well done for a first release, a couple of places need to be tweaked but other than that good job!

ro3md | 2 |

Sorry not a fan of this map. Layout was confusing, even the chaulkboard at blue start says, attack A and C? what about B? Hud progression should be cap A, then B, then C. C hard to get to. Map is a good start but it needs more work

Spacewar | Can't vote for my own map - have removed it from the competition
Watergarden |2|

I applaud the effort

I'll add notes as I play them - map comments may sound harsh but they are only about the map - not the map maker.

Kill_the_Bug · Apr 7, 2021

Ladies and Gents, spacewar is out of the contest

I need to make too many fixes to it and the one's that you have tested (with my thanks) broke the game logic on occasion.

There are other personal items going on at this end also that is taking away me being able to concentrate 100% on the map when I'm doing the logic etc.

To everyone else - good luck!!!

Xbmann · Apr 9, 2021

Will hopefully be there for the gameday to get an updated view of some of the maps.

MAP | SCORE | COMMENT
3flags | 1 |

Incomprehensible gamemode

Affront | 3.5 |

Not a fan of the attacker spawns, felt painful on attacking often

Altitude | 4 |

Really fun layout but sometimes confusing as to what the main route is

Arrival | 1 |

Extremely overscaled and hard to understand

Chestnut Woods | 1 |

Very cramped layout, bad framerate, broken logic

Cinders | 3 |

Fun map for sniper, though the gameplay often felt somewhat aimless

Crawdad | 1 |

Horrible gamemode, missing skybox, actually unplayable.

Dayspring | 2 |

Empty gameplay spaces and long hallways, not a very interesting final

Gratuite | 3 |

Well made even though standin gamemode frustrates me to no end

Gridiron | 2 |

Nothing really stands out, the gameplay feels unfocused, generally boring.

Gushdown | 1 |

This is not scaled like a tf2 map, and nothing is clipped

Ibex2021 | ? |

(redacted because I don't have enough rounds on the map IMO) Messy flanks, still haven't seen C once

Kennecott | 1 |

Unplayably overscaled

Mache | 4 |

A and B are both very fun, haven't figured C out yet though

Mot | 3 |

Second stage is really good, other ones were kind of bland, third stage feels like you win by brainlessly walking in and overextending every life

Pullsnake | 2.5 |

Last seems a bit messy but I had a lot of fun on the first two points, feels fairly empty

Rumford | 4.5 |

Intuitive layout, very balanced points. Bad rounds always feel like my fault rather than the map

ro3md | 3 |

Last point is so easy to hold that theres no point playing the others. The connectors are really good

Spacewar | dead | N/A
Watergarden | 2 |

Confusing gamemode, players were being killed by the moving point

Suna · Apr 10, 2021

Deleted member 33500 · Apr 10, 2021

Scores & thoughts are subject to change.
I may also play some of the maps I haven't played yet before the voting ends, so uhh, that may also change the scores.

MAP | SCORE | THOUGHTS
3flags | 1 |

3flags is awful both because of the layout, and the game mode. The game mode is wayyyy more flawed than the map, but the map feels really compact.

Affront | 3 |

Affront is fine. Some of the transitions can be terrible, but overall, this is a decent map!

Altitude | 5 |

Altitude is great. Nuff' said

Arrival | 1 |

What even is this? The most of the map is huge, there is a prop spam of benches to make a wall, there is a literal hell in a cell from WWE. This map recieves a nope from me!

Chestnut Woods | 1 |

Dear god, this was awful. The map is terribly underscaled, there were leaks, and some of it feels like a maze. Overall just an awful experience.

Cinders | 3 |

Last is a bit easy to cap as Blu, however I enjoyed playing this!

Crawdad | 1 |

Literally broken.

Dayspring | 3 |

It's a pretty average payload map, I really don't have a lot to say, all I can say is that this is sometimes fun!

Gratuite | 2 |

I am not the biggest fan of this because some of the navigation, sometimes it makes feel the gameplay a bit brainless going from point to point. Also the prop jump at B.

((((

Gridiron | 2 |

Gridiron's main problem is how its' mid to team areas are so streched, how a single engie can own mid, and some of the routing giving advantage to Scouts. I am gonna admit that it was me who offered feedback but forgot, but still, these were obvious issues. Overall, tedious to play.

Gushdown | 1 |

I did not play much of this map, but from my experience this map is way below decent. You can get to areas that you prolly shouldn't be able get to, and this ends up also being a maze. Gushdown has a lot more of problems, but those are general and pretty obvious.

Ibex2021 | 2 |

Some of ibex's map plays well, but most of the time I played it was that Blu rolls until the last point, and Red maybe defended the last point depending if they are good enough.

Kennecott | 1 |

Is this your first map? It's awful. It's terribly overscaled, the textures are stretched, and the lighting is weird

Mache | 4 |

The map is quite enjoyable! Though Blu can easily roll over Red if they have a good medic (aka me), but otherwise if Red can defend well, the map is fun!

Mot | 3 |

I have mixed feelings about this. The most enjoyable stage is the first one, and then as it goes on it becomes less enjoyable. The last stage is not that great because you have to jump over the point as a mobility class to get behind it. Though I found this map quite enjoyable, even despite it's flaws.

Pullsnake | 2 |

I find the map a little boring to play. It's not bad, but it's just boring.

Rumford | 4 |

I don't like last a bit, but the overall map is pretty good! I had fun on it.

ro3md | 2 |

Re-played this on the game day that happened on Sunday, and my thoughts were confirmed. Playing this is rly boring, and most of the time Blu would cap the two optional points and then Red would be defending the main one.

Spacewar | Withdrawn (Score: 1) |

I like that the creator of this one tried to do something unique, but right now it's a bit of a mess that doesn't play well. And yes, the creator has withdrawn the map from the contest, but I'm still gonna give it a score and my thoughts on it.

Watergarden | N/A

Brandini Panini · Apr 10, 2021

MAP | SCORE | NOTES
3flags | 1 |

The gamemode really hampers this map. Many people were left confused and it did not seem intuitive on the way you are meant to play the map. I think the map geometry itself is alright, but it does nothing to help the gamemode. There either needs to be a way to communicate the gamemode better or the gamemode needs to change in some way.

Affront | 3 |

This map has some good potential, though it isn't quite there yet. The fighting areas are fairly unique and feel pretty fun to fight in. Defending seemed very odd as the best places to defend were the connecting areas as the points felt practically impossible to defend from. The map felt blu sided, however I may need to play it more to really know if thats the case.

Altitude | 4 |

Aesthetic wise, this map is by far my favorite of the contest. Theming is on point. Game play wise its fairly fun, however, there are parts of the map that I felt useless as specific classes on. For instance on defense I was playing sniper, though I felt useless when we were pushed back to 3rd. Overall 3rd is the weakest point on the map. 3rd ends up being this kill box of spam and bodies, way too tight quarters. I like the look of second a lot but it feels like people aren't totally drawn to the point immediately and there ends up being long drawn out fights over the roof with no progress being made to the point. First is good though sniper may be a little too strong on this point.

Unless the map gets updated, it is always skipped due to being fairly unplayable. So for now my score will have to stay at this unless it gets a playable update.

Dayspring | 2 |

I think there are some cool ideas in this map. Though, there is a ton of flat ground going on all over the place, making the fighting areas not very interesting. Last is not very fun to play around for either team but if blu can't get in early its hard to push at all. The rest of the map gets rolled fairly often by blu team as there aren't many good defense spots across the map. This map could benefit a ton from some displacement work and more microgameplay additions.

Gratuite | 2.5 |

The gamemode for this map is unique but I'm not entirely sold on if it works good or not. I like the gameplay areas around the map, most felt decent to fight in. Although the combat felt very scattered and I feel like its a byproduct of the gamemode's design. Maybe routing changes could help it feel at least a little less scattered.

Gridiron | 2 |

Pass time really isn't my favorite game mode in the first place. But it suffers a lot of issues the gamemode has in general. I honestly don't have any clue how to fix issues pass time has but I like some of the changes made over time. The fighting feels more focused than previous versions which is good. But really the map just doesn't fix what issues there are in the first place. I wish I could be more helpful but I have never touched pass time myself.

Gushdown | 1 |

The map was completely broken all around. No clipping, blu's spawn door were barely working, full bright, etc. Needs to be in a more playable state before I can really give any proper feedback other than the map felt like a maze.

Ibex2021 | 3 |

I like parts of this map while others aren't too great. The first point feels relatively hard to defend and feels more of a throwaway to set up a better defense latter, which isn't a totally bad thing. My favorite part of the map is probably the rocky area and the entrance building to last. Last itself feels fine but something doesn't feel right when defending and it ends up being hold the entrance area or lose.

Kennecott |
Mache | 4 |

I had a lot of fun with this map. First is a really fun point to play around, not many complaints here. Seconds has this thing where it could get rolled easily by attackers if they move up fast enough. The geometry around second is fun but it does seem like something needs to happen about rolling. Last is the odd ball point really, feels pretty different. I'm not sure how to feel about it all together, since it feels like people could roll it as attackers but not many people took advantage that attackers are given. Seems hard to defend it just by looking at it.

Mot | Not Mot | Not Not Mot Nor Mot
Pullsnake | 2 |

There are some nice ideas going on in this map. However, it just is not balanced in its current state. First has been improved over previous versions but I'm not sure its in a good place either. Last is still just horrible to push, two engineers can just completely shut down blu team and thats if blu team can even get to the sentries because they have to push through a horrible choke that red has highground on. With some work im sure this map can turn out good, but currently it needs a lot of changes to get there.

Rumford | 3.5 |

Despite not giving it a 4, I do still like this map. I've had a big concern with defense being way too strong on second for most of its development and it still hasn't gotten much better. Any sort of basic competent defense will have it pretty easy even on last. The fighting areas are fun to fight in though. Looking forward to how the map turns out for the major.

ro3md | 2 |

The concept of a 3 point steel-like is interesting. However the execution is lacking in many ways. The most glaring issue is that B is essentially a useless point. Not a single person on red team ever wants to even get near it as there is absolutely no reason to defend it. Red either splits their defense between A and C or just forgets everything else and just hard holds C. The connectors don't help very much as they don't feel like they flow very well and they just let defenders flank in weird places that they shouldn't be able to. Steel has a very delicate balance to its gamemode and removing 2 points makes aspects of the gamemode not function the same way. I'm sure the gamemode could work but right now it didn't completely sell it for me.

Spacewar |
Watergarden |

Idolon · Apr 11, 2021

MAP | SCORE | FEEDBACK
3flags | 1 |

i don't think anyone likes this gamemode.

Affront | 3.5 |

this map is a good start, but has a ways to go.

Altitude | 2 |

i feel constantly disconnected from my blue team when playing this. i think its just too wide (or in the case of C, too tall)? i'm not sure - the test i was in might have been a fluke, maybe its an issue with respawn times being too short, maybe its an issue of walk times making my slow heavy-weapons ass drag behind the rest of my team. maybe the map is good for most classes but just bad for a blue heavy. (red heavy was a decent experience.) i think all of the points are designed in a way where there's a lot of disconnected areas and it makes gamesense really difficult - enemies sometimes just Happen to me instead of feeling like classic spam-based push-pull tf2. also, while height advantage in front of blue spawn is fine, i do think its pretty extreme in this map... badwater A is similar, but when you push the high ground, you've got good visibility on your flanks. pushing the high ground on this map's A feels like you've got a full 360 degrees of vulnerability at all times and your progress is mostly determined by the mercy of god.

Arrival | 1.25 |

i feel like there's some interesting ideas here, and the layout isn't completely busted, but its overscaled, has weird flow, and is overall just a mess to play.

Chestnut Woods | 1 |

i don't think any gameplay space of this map is appropriately scaled, everything is too small.

Cinders | 2.5 |

Moderately fun. I like playing on A, B is okay (more fun on red than blue), and C is kinda rough. I would recommend trying to design with points in the middle of an open area rather than on red's side of the map, and give red more spots to hold in the middle of the area. Letting red defend a point from inside their connector can make gameplay fairly predictable, with red running the same holds every match. i think you also need more interesting corridor design. the connectors between points are fairly long and make up a fair amount of the push and pull, which is good! the connectors just need more variety and options inside of them to support that. the push to Gorge B is an excellent example of how to pull this off.

Crawdad | 1 |

unpacked assets, gamemode idea is interesting but allows you to just cap the mid flag and not even care about the enemy bases, which seems not great. layout is very unintuitive

Dayspring | 2.5 |

I have fun on this map, but its got a ways to go. The layout does enough to control sightlines and enforce a fairly consistent player flow, but it lacks anything particularly interesting or memorable, and needs more small-scale gameplay spaces. I would also pay attention to team composition - it feels like nobody really runs red engie, and I can't really think of any good sentry spots in this map.

Gratuite | 2 |

A and C feel very overscaled, the majority of the gameplay space is a pit you don't want to be in. makes for boring gameplay for pretty much any class that isnt played in 6s

Gridiron | - |

i'm abstaining from voting on this map because i don't think i can fairly judge passtime maps very easily.

Gushdown | 1 |

this is one of the most confusing layouts i have ever played on. i never found the B point while playing on either team. C is designed like an old school tomb raider level. also HDR was extremely bright and LDR was not included, so every single player was playing a very bad looking version of the map.

Ibex2021 | 2.5 |

the geometry is cool and has a lot of potential, but the flanks are huge and the whole map feels kinda uncoordinated. B is the strongest point of the three, mostly because there aren't any huge flanks that bypass most of the map. everything is slightly overscaled and/or has very long and sometimes unexpected sightlines... there's some weird angles on A, B is mostly fine? and C is overwhelming when trying to predict where snipers will be (this is partially worsened by how chaotic C feels as a whole). i think A and B are fixable, and i can't even tell what the core idea of C is so i can't tell you if its salvageable or not.

Kennecott | 1 |

so overscaled that any other feedback is pointless. i can't really give any good advice other than to study the scale of maps you enjoy and to try and copy that.

Mache | 3.5 |

its okay. i think i like playing on A and C, but not B. its been a while since i last played this so i don't have anything to say that i haven't said directly to the map creator.

Mot | 3 |

having played on a more balanced test than the first i joined, i'm starting to enjoy this map. i think it has issues catering to the full spectrum of classes in the game, and i have yet to see any match that wasn't a full 3-0 wipe. the stages seem to get better in order.

Pullsnake | 1.75 |

A seems decent. B feels like the flanks are too disconnected for blue to be using them effectively, as the walk times are long, the rotation time for red is small, and the advantages earned from the flanks are miniscule. C felt like trying to push two finals at once - after taking out a couple of sentries and pushing the first hill, it felt like my team had overcome a chokepoint and we would soon cap a point / get a new forward spawn... instead i was greeted with another hill and another two sentries. red quickly retook all that ground and we never took it back again. making a mostly uphill map is fine, but you need to give blue more positional advantages to compensate for the general disadvantage they have overall, and they need places to hold that red cannot access easily. look at upward or cactus canyon for reference.

Rumford | 4 |

this is the most fun map i've played in the contest. it's a bit boring, has some pacing issues, some killer sightlines on last, but playing this map feels more like tf2 than anything else i played this contest. i love playing with teammates and using teamwork to accomplish an objective, and i got to do that on this map.

ro3md | 2 |

there's multiple schools of steel design - one where capping final shouldn't be anything more than a distraction play until it is the only point left (see outflow), and one where the inflection point comes sooner, with additional points becoming the distraction play instead of final (see steel, maybe sulfur?). i'm assuming you want to do something like outflow, in which case i think you need to focus on making red rotation to final from the other points quicker, and giving blue a more consolidated lobby for pushing C once it is the only point remaining. part of why the push to C is so hard is because blue is split up across three major routes, all of which have long walktimes, aren't even that good for pushing C, and all of which function as good flank routes for red scouts, pyros, soldiers, spies, etc.

Spacewar | x | Watergarden | 1.5 |

i dont think this map has enough gameplay in it to remain interesting for very long. there's a ton of extra areas around the point, but they're extremely irrelevant to actually playing the objective. you spend all of your time in a single fairly small space and the movement of the elevator doesn't do a ton to change how it plays over time - you always want the high ground. i think red being able to re-cap the point is an interesting mechanic that actually works for the map, since the final point would be too easy to cap otherwise - but i dont think the elevator gimmick changes how the space plays very much when it moves, certainly not enough to carry the map.

toopliss · Apr 11, 2021

norfolk · Apr 11, 2021

MAP | SCORE | COMMENTS
3flags | 1 |

This gamemode just does not work at all. It's hard to understand and impossible to communicate with custom HUD limitations.

Affront | 4 |

Overall, I think this map is really fun. There are flaws of course, but at the end of the day I have a lot of fun on both teams.

Altitude | 5 |

Beautiful map and an absolute blast to play!

Arrival | 1 |

I think there was a good attempt, but the map is completely unplayable.

Chestnut Woods | 1 |

Very small and cramped, tons of props, very confusing layout. Good first attempt but not a great result.

Cinders | 2.5 |

Every version has felt really unbalanced one way or the other.

Crawdad | 1 |

Very strange experience. Map was unpacked, gamemode was unbalanced.

Dayspring | 2 |

It's a good start and has been constantly improving, but overall it's quite flat and uninteresting.

Gratuite | 3 |

Interesting take on the Standin gamemode, but its scaling makes it hard to play.

Gridiron | 4 |

I really enjoy this one. The size is perfect for passtime map and the goals are really interesting to play around.

Gushdown | - |

Not giving this a formal vote since I haven't played it with others, but from my wandering I'd give it a 1. Fullbright, extremely messy brushwork, confusing design and scale.

Ibex2021 | 4 |

Quite fun, but a little bit too large.

Kennecott | 1 |

Massively overscaled. Unplayably so.

Mache | 5 |

Always love playing this one, incredibly fun, well-designed and balanced!

Mot | 2.5 |

It just kind of drags on. I had no fun playing it as 3koth, I don't think the gamemode idea works. Had a lot more fun with every stage as a separate map.

Pullsnake | 3 |

It's improving, but I think last is a little strange and the rest of the map isn't too exciting to play.

Rumford | 5 |

Extremely fun map. Every point feels fun as both teams and I never get bored!

ro3md | 2 |

Good start, but very unbalanced. Capturing A and B disadvantages BLU, feels like a 1cp map

Spacewar | x |

I really enjoyed this map. Gamemode is unique and fun, map is charming and has a fun atmosphere. I'd give it a 3.5 if it were still in

Watergarden | 2 |

I really enjoy the gamemode and art direction in this map, but it feels very flawed currently. Layout definitely needs a lot of work.

ibex · Apr 11, 2021

MAP | SCORE | NOTES
3flags | 1 |

I really want to like this gamemode because I like invade ctf, but this definitely didn't work with 3 active flags without clear timers, etc. I appreciate the work you put into this gamemode, but I don't think it's gonna pan out in this contest.

Affront | 3.5 |

Seems like you've got something really good here, I just haven't enjoyed defending because it feels like I'm forced to sit in a corner behind each point to defend effectively. I think I mostly played sniper so that may affect my interpretation, but playing on attack felt a lot more enjoyable. I think the area ahead of B could do with some simplification or something, DM me on discord if you'd like me to flesh out this thought.

Altitude | 3.5 |

You've gotten really good at these organic slopes, displacements, and rock formations; overall a very pretty/cohesive design. I think the teams weren't greatly balanced because we kept getting choked up at C, but I also never really saw much combat on B. I really like the hill outside of blu's first spawn, but the A point itself doesn't feel great because I had to keep 180ing when I was trying to cap. Lots of interesting spaces for combat, I'm just not sold on the control points/progression.

Arrival | 1 |

Seems like an interesting gamemode idea, however the map just wasn't fun to play. Lots of large empty spaces and prop spam without much interesting geometry to play around.

Chestnut Woods | 1 |

Everything is so smushed together and there is barely any space between the points. Much to tiny for anything besides spam to happen.

Cinders | 2 |

I think A and B have something going on, C not so much. All the indoor areas feel very messy and confusing. The mass of different colored arrows honestly isn't that helpful because of information overload.
Crawdad | 1 |

Very broken skybox/unpacked materials; possibly leaking. From the small amount we played, it was confusing to navigate and I really only saw spawn + the mid bridge. Please submit an update so that it can at least be tested normally.

Dayspring | | Haven't played
Gratuite | 2 |

I kind of understand why the cap rates are so long, but it just didn't make for interesting gameplay. It also kind of hurt that both A and C were super cramped spaces with awkward attacking routes. I think the long cap rates could work if the cap zones were more dynamic with the surrounding area. I did like B, but it felt too separate from the rest of the map.

Gridiron | 2 |

Not sure if we just didn't have any experienced passtimers, but I didn't really see any interesting pushes. The geometry also made everything feel more separated, which may be just how pass time functions, but it made fights feel very long distance. I may not have enough experience with passtime, but it just didn't seem very focused or compelling.

Gushdown | | Haven't played
Ibex2021 | mine |

probably bad

Kennecott | 1 |

Massively overscaled. Don't have much more to say because it was too large for any of the objectives/areas to interact.

Mache | 3 |

Not sure I like A, and I think I only saw C when we rolled it. I actually really like B, but I think it's let down by the proximity to A and the chokes created as a result of the building behind A. The building behind A and I guess also the area under A feel like they are much too separated from the point, and it seems like blu is sort of forced to take that direction when red gets a competent defense on top of A. Maybe it's the extreme height differences around A that forces the underground to be so separate, not sure on this tangent.

Mot | 2.5 |

Teams were potentially horribly off balance for the whole test unfortunately, so I've got mixed feelings. Stage 1: I think this stage has some issues with the righthand flank because it's further away from the spawn (so less used) than the left flank and has height disadvantage for attackers. Made attempting to retake mid more stale. Stage 2: I can't say I had much idea of what the area around the point looked like, but it felt cramped and exposed at the same time. Stage 3: I think I played this before as part of the microcontest or something, but it still has the same issues where explosive jumpers and scouts can move around the sides of the point in surprising ways while there are also massive sightlines across the point. It just isn't that fun.

A and B both felt like through aways, and C was nearly impossible to break into. Didn't like playing as a blu engineer at all. There are some interesting gameplay spaces, I just don't think the points/progression worked very well.

Spacewar | - | Removed from contest
Watergarden | | Haven't played

Feel free to DM on discord if you want me to expand on any feedback I've left/added here.

Search

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Contest #50: Rule of Threes [MINOR CONTEST] [VOTING]

Idolon

they/them

nesman

master of fast travel

Emil_Rusboi

DoctorDoomtrain64

func_witch

Mâché

Big Ferret

Tang

wee snaw

nesman

master of fast travel

Another Bad Pun

In the shadows, he saw four eyes lit by fire

Tiftid

the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil

Wilson

Boomer by Sleep

Kill_the_Bug

Kill_the_Bug

Xbmann

Suna

What's a greybox?

Deleted member 33500

Brandini Panini

Robot Girl Enjoyer

Idolon

they/them

toopliss

deer

norfolk

ibex

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