Contest #50: Rule of Threes [MINOR CONTEST] [VOTING]

lucky · Apr 13, 2021

renton · Apr 15, 2021

MAP | SCORE | NOTES
3flags | 1.5 |

Spawn doors are really fast wow. Doorways feel small. Stairs are unclipped. There are some visible no draw textures in the play space. The map isn't full bright but it really hurts my eyes. Shadows seem non existent in some places, strange. Some textures aren't aligned. There isn't too much to say about this map except the game mode isn't great and is very confusing.

Affront | 3.5 |

Decent map, is a little underwhelming on defence. A lot of cool details like the forklift and crates breaking the fence and the noise above the 2nd point. Some clipping adjustments on windows and such would be nice but a good map overall.

Altitude | 5 |

Very well themed map. The snow is awesome and the battles on rooftops combos so well with everything else. The clipping is a bit inconsistent on rooftops and it would be nice if there was an indication on which rooftops are accessible. There is a weird shadow bug above B. Remove some of the railings near last they feel more of an obstacle to movement than good detail. Last in general is a bit confusing to traverse. Other than these few things this map is very well made and feels more like a beta map than an alpha map. Very good job.

Arrival | 1 |

Way to open and flat. A lot of the geometry doesn't make any sense and doesn't align properly. The arches at what I believe to be train stops aren't created properly and are under scaled. The "cave" is very flat and is just a straight tunnel. There is so much prop spam wow. The mid consists of 2 walls of crates and a control point. This may be the most prop spammiest map I've ever seen!

Chestnut Woods | 1 |

I already gave a lot of feedback on this map but it seems like you didn't see it so I will restate it now. Too many props, look at official maps to see how they sprinkle them, its far too cluttered (especially for an alpha map. Alot of clipping needs to be added, for example on fences and stairs as well as props. The building across from Blu's first spawn seems pointless as its accessible at the start of the round and simply loops into itself. We got stuck in spawns on red. Some props are black. Last is far too cluttered and impossible to push. The cracks in windows, roofs, and walls are annoying and aren't fun. There is major issues with this map and it would be easier to fix them if you hadn't spammed so many props around. Also the skybox is a hollow cube.

Cinders | 2 |

A and B aren't too bad, the major problems are on C. The corridors are too narrow for the red team and for the blu team the mass spam of arrows is more distracting than directive. I find it ironic that there is an arrow that points towards a death pit and maybe that should indicate to you that there is too much. Not too bad but definitely needs some work.

Crawdad | 1 |

Unpacked map leading to pink/black textures. The skybox isn't working properly. Impossible to play more and for more to be said. The map is a confusing in layout but as I stated it was impossible to play.

Dayspring | 2 |

Decent gameplay. Has decent scaling. Nodraw is too aggressive and clipping needs to be added to alot of props and brushes. It's also possible to get above a building near last.

Gratuite | 1.5 |

Feels very over scaled, I noticed you toned down sightlines between versions but its still very open and doesn't feel fun to fight around. The signs don't make sense and are misleading. There are areas where there is no way to a point but to pass a sightline (a very big sightline at that).

Gridiron | 3 |

Overall a decent map, the last area feels sniper dominated. Some clipping needs to be added as its possible to get too high up in the map in many areas.

Gushdown | 1 |

I reviewed this map personally with around 5 players outside of playtesting and it has some either huge problems or is way too unique to be playable. The water, while a nice idea is annoying to traverse and difficult to leave once you enter. You also may need to learn the clip tool and if you are aware of what I am referring to when I say this then your map is too different and doesn't play well.

Ibex2021 | 4 |

This map has a good theme, I like how the 3 parts are distinctly separated. The gameplay is fun however it seems to stalemate often either in the first stage or at the third stage. Some clipping adjustments need to be made, windows doorways etc.

Kennecott | 1 |

I was actually screen sharing with my friends to show them how fun it was playing on custom maps and then this came on. There is a lot of things wrong with this map that can't be fixed with some tweaks. The entire map is massively over scaled and spawn, doors etc are way too big. There is an entire area around the back of spawn for no reason. You should focus on out of bounds details after the map is fully finished layout wise unless they are really necessary to explaining gameplay. This leads to my next issue which is the skybox. Just a big 3D cube and you really shouldn't enter a map to a contest with that. Pickups are basically non existent and the points are too far apart from each other. Its far too dark on the indoor areas of the map. There is also some strangely aggressive clipping in areas where it really doesn't need to be clipped. Feels like either you are meant to play this with 2x player size or you never loaded it up yourself.

Mache | 4 |

Well balanced and well designed map. First looks good and plays well. The transitions to second aren't too bad but might be a little close. The third point can be very hard to push into and defends pretty much exclusively setup on the left (from blu perspective).

Mot | 2.5 |

Stage 1 has some interesting visuals but just feels like a generic koth map overall. The hud was broken for me but this may have just been a bug for only me. Stage 2 mid has the roof elements that remind me of coalplant. The flank route is a little strange, I feel if it was more incorporated as a main route to attack the point it would be more interesting. The boarded windows are a bad move in my opinion. It looks like you have blocked bullets off for the most of it (maybe) but being able to see the point without any consequences and being essentially invisible is a bit poor in my opinion. The third stage hasn't got a flank for some reason, unless you count the upper route which is only accessible by demo and soldier, pyro with detonator and scout with an unnecessarily annoying jump. Some stairs are not clipped. The concept is unique but wasn't really fun in practice. Overall not terrible but has flaws.

Pullsnake | 3 |

Not too bad of a map. I personally had a lot of fun on this map playing different classes. I hate pyro but managed to have a good time playing it here. Last feels really weird and confusing. Improvements are being made and the drop down is a cool idea. The underground/lower area of last feels annoying to traverse and very choky for classes like demoman. The flank routes are more fun to be in than the main route, In my opinion. You should avoid having every flank also be a kill zone as well, perhaps add some cover.

Rumford | 4 |

Good map, I would bump it up if some changes were made. You can see to first through a fence out of bounds around the corner (towards red side). Feels quite hard to push into second in my experiences, and feels boring to defend it from the other side. Its possible to stand inside the tree on second. Last is fun to hold but not so fun to attack (from the few experiences I have had where it got to last). Believe it or not we ended up getting spawn camped a few times when defending second, perhaps add a second exit door to this area. Overall well balanced map and well designed gameplay spaces. I can tell you spent a lot of time on this map.

ro3md | 2 |

The pillars near first are fun to fight around. The flank route from A bypasses B and goes straight to C which is disruptive in my opinion. Some of the rooftops need to be clipped off, or unclipped, just make it consistent. Not much to say about this map that hasn't already been said. It isn't very fun to play.

Spacewar | x |

The map had some problems, I can understand why it was removed.

Watergarden | 2.5 |

The one way door in spawn is strange but not a problem. Unique idea with the point moving upward, perhaps too unique. Layout needs some work (which is also very unique).

Aulli · Apr 21, 2021

MAP | SCORE | NOTES
3flags | 1 |

I just.. don't know how to play this. I don't think anybody does. combat is very unfocused and people grab the flag and pray and sometimes the round just ends. As soon as a flag is picked up you have no idea when it's going to explode because it's now completely detached from the indicators of which flag it is. Also you totally didn't need 3 of them because just having a flag and 2 bomb points would count for rule of threes.

Affront | 3.5 |

I quite like this map! Last has always been rough and the latest is no exception, but it's better than it was, and is headed in.. A direction? Not a bad one I don't think. Connectors all feel a bit large, especially compared to how A & B's point areas actually feel pretty compact & concise. Last may be rough but A & B are quite good imo, and B is consistently not rolled in my experience. I actually really dig the dynamics around B now, there's some "awkwardness" in a good way, fun to try to scrape something out of the weird angles and areas you get, and if red pushes forward there's a very natural good feeling stopping point for a forward hold, just before the door. A is kindof the opposite, it's very straight forward in how you have to tackle it, and it kinda feels like blu has to just brute force it a bit without a whole lot to work with.

Altitude | 3 | Will write later
Arrival | n/a | Haven't had the chance to play it.
Chestnut Woods | 1 |

Cramped! Cramped.. All of your doorways and areas are tiny, I get caught on and bump into everything, ..map is pretty underscaled. I see some ideas here but none of them have any room to breathe. I unfortunately don't have much else to say because it's all related to being underscaled. But I do have one other thing: It feels like you're relying on props way too much to shape areas.

Cinders | 2.5 |

It feels a bit janky but I actually have fun on this map. A has a lot of elevation changes that don't really feel natural, and your connectors between the points are all a bit too convoluted. I don't like how last has blu flanks that just lead directly to red spawn, and the cap area is tiny. In fact, last is also a bit too convoluted, too many small shapes, and a weird dropdown room for blu off to the side with absolutely no fun use case.

Crawdad | 1 |

It's pretty cramped feeling and awkward to navigate, with small passages and dropdowns all over the place. The mid being almost entirely a long tight straight passageway you can't bypass isn't really fun, especially considering there's a ledge above it that you have to go very, very out of your way to even get to, especially difficult while the route's being held by enemies. Imagine trying to go through some of these passageways with even just a single soldier on the other side trying to stop you. Also for some reason, going fast with the neutral flag spams you with the 'marked for death' sound.

Dayspring | 1.5 | Will write later
Gratuite | 3 |

Normally domination is kindof just, a mode I would recommend you not make. But I actually quite like this map! The corridors feel kinda tight and twisty, with an over reliance on shutters, they're not really fun to encounter an enemy in. It's actually really smart to put B below to allow rotations directly between A & C, but at the current state B is kindof just.. There. There's not really any way to approach the point with tact, it's just direct headbutting on flat ground from the bridge doors, and spam from the other doors when fighting over it. Also, the cap areas are all very tiny, please enlarge them.

Gridiron | 2 | Will write later
Gushdown | 1 |

This map is.. A maze, with weird awkward shapes an areas everywhere. The areas are underscaled but the map as a whole is overscaled, the map does not direct players to the objectives in the slightest and there is no 'front line' to speak of. You need to focus players into one main route and a couple flank routes, not have an open world map where players can accidentally wander to last before finding A, or in fact, before finding a single enemy. Also, you've not used any clipping it seems, players can get onto the incredibly high buildings where they're completely safe but are outside of engagement distances, encouraging players to just spam eternally until somebody dies.

Ibex2021 | n/a | Haven't had the chance to play it.
Kennecott | 1 |

It's.. ..oh god it's massive. Blu would have time to build an entire sentry nest at one of the points before red could rotate to stop the capture, I think this is the most overscaled map I have ever seen. Optimal encounter ranges (where players would see eachother and start fighting) are around 600-1100 hu imo, and C for example has angles more than 4000 units long. In fact, there's examples like that everywhere. I can't even think about any other things to say because every time I try to examine an area my mind goes "wggghh this is HUUUGE what"

Mache | 4 |

Anyways--

Mot | 3 |

I actually quite enjoy this map for the most part. Stage one is slightly too large, both long and especially wide, but I really dig the point area. I kinda feel like you could axe the leftmost route entirely and rework the right half of the routes to be the main walk paths. I won't say too much about stage 2 because I think it's quite alright, though there's some bits of geometry that don't make sense to me, like the dropdown onto the pickups and the tiny, strangely out of the way rightmost route out of spawn. I don't quite know about the timer shifts, you're taking 1/3 of the time off a koth round, but due to the timing good pushes usually happen in, the effect is it feels like you take off much more of an average round than that. Part of my distaste might also be the fact that I .. kinda just hate the third stage the time is being put into instead. It feels like a spamfest on all fronts that was only really designed with soldier & demoman in mind. The lowground feels so bad to be in that I basically retreat any time I find myself in it and rotate back to the highground where I know I won't be constantly fired on from several angles, but it's so disconnected that attacking from them feels like i'm just being forced to spam.

Pullsnake | 2.5 |

At first I really didn't like this map, but with the changes you've made you've ended up changing my opinion, and getting over a bad first impression is a good sign. It feels like there's a few places where the cart just rolls uncontested, but there's also a few locations where the front line teeters back and forth past the cart which I like. Around B is definitely my favorite part of the map, you can put up a good defense, but not an impossible feeling one, that often has to be soft-broken multiple times. Last and the leadup to it feels cluttered and awkward, the geometry kindof just doesn't make sense and it's an overlaid spaghetti of objects and routes. The outdoors portion just before the last with the fences is kinda fun to hold, but once you push past it the window on the side, and the 45 degree ramp up, and the kinda.. awkward angles in general make it not fun for either team

Rumford | 4 |

A really solid payload map that I usually have fun on, I mostly like the direction the changes are going and it seems like they've acted well on feedback. I don't think I like B though, the encounter ranges tend to be on the longer side and combat tends to be kinda spammy as a result. Changes to it recently have kinda just.. been adding more routes and it's starting to feel like flank spaghetti in an effort to give close range classes something to do on it. I think the key issue is the fact that before the bend before the point is a section along a chickenwire wall that's just got nothing for players there to do. defense watches people as they walk up the hill and approach it and already know when to pop out to spam at them to make them unable to even consider pushing through the cart path, and defending it is awkward because there's not really a comfortable place to stand anywhere on the entire point. The closest to it is the inside of the chicken wire wall, but that's a 180 to where the cart's going to be while you're defending it, which is most likely in the stretch on the other side of it. the flanks for attackers come out in places that don't really feel like you can prod the defense much, there's exactly one doorway that lets you actually look at the defensive spot and it's a dropdown that usually gets spammed. I feel like the entire room with the turntable is forfeit in the newest version and it feels fruitless, overly dangerous, to even CONTEST the cart there with blu getting a free highground and red further having to come from a lowground with a wall behind them. I think I like the state last point is in now though, but i've not had a whole lot of playtime on it and it's changed quite a bit so I can't be too confident on that claim.

ro3md | n/a | Haven't had the chance to play it.
Spacewar | n/a |

It's fun, I like the gimmick tbh, and there should be more tug of war payload maps. Mid kindof feels like gameplay doesn't happen all too often in it from what I've played, and I really don't like last point, it feels like the flank is way too long for how exposed the area it leads to is, and the ground floor is just.. some cinder blocks strewn about. I don't like the usage of shutters all over, they're a bit better being see-through but they're still shutters. Not helping the fact is that you use it for some doorways you can't even go through sometimes, like one-ways and spawn doors. In fact, there's a lot of confusing things, the teleporters and some of the routes that open are confusing about when they're usable and where they go.

Watergarden | 2 |

I think the idea is really neat and I had some fun messing about on it, but it's got a lot of issues. A lot of the space is just completely unused, when it's on B it's kindof just awkard to get to for both teams, often when I'm headed to A and they cap with a couple players I literally can't rotate fast enough to stop them from capturing the other two, let alone considering I have to actually -fight- them off the point. Time being added every time blue captures means rounds can just go a really long time, to the point where at one point I realized I was considering letting them finish capping just so the round can end.

dotmd · Apr 22, 2021

pont · Apr 22, 2021

kennecot
- is this a cordon?
- very overscaled
- door on a window? with blockbullets and no glass??
- is this a fast compile?
- please turn off scaling texture lock

gratuite
- i love when my team gets wiped by one demoman because we're standing on prefab default tiny cap zones
- going into the middle area i expect a rotation into B but instead it's.. an entirely separate space?
- not having a great time with my A and C options being either Corridor or Low Ground Where You Get Fucked
- i have aged thirty years waiting for the capture point to flip
- making domcp more compact with shorter capture times would probably be a better approach to the gamemode's issues
- all the spaces combat takes place in are flat. i have not had an interesting fight.

ro3md
- i have no idea where BLU are coming from when defending last.
- when defending last, i can skip past the point and attack a BLU connector / B point straight out of spawn???
- some windows have hard to see glass in them. add a frame or something, i keep running into them face first.
- i'm so lost dude
- routing all around B is extremely unintuitive
- BLU's only high ground over C has a oneway from red spawn to it??
- BLU gets divided way too much. steel's final point is a distraction play until most preceding points are captured, but here it's a more viable option and leads to two points receiving a small trickle of blu players that could never hope to push.

crawdad
- unpacked
- dark
- texture scale is so fucked. try to stick to 0.25
- why would you ever capture the enemy intel when the neutral one exists? this is fundamentally flawed

chestnut woods
- this is very dense.
- split spawn with a oneway dropdown between them is interesting.
- PLEASE turn off cap alerts for RED team
- oneway near A isn't fun for either team
- pine tree in gameplay space. sentries can track through it
- my framerate is dying

affront
- A is neat
- B and C aren't a lot of fun tbh
- some hallways could use some sort of reference - getting a little confused in some of the blank red dev texture areas
- BLU forward for C directs players to A point
- hard time finding pickups for BLU when attacking C
- please don't use gameplay particles as map detail
- C is not enjoyable to attack
- please don't nobuild capture areas.

mot
- stage 1 is my favourite of these.
- stage 1: i keep getting stuck on tiny little sticking out ramps
- stage 2: neat, though i'd enjoy more options when attacking mid.
- stage 3: layout needs other routes - everyone's forced through the point no matter what. really sucks for pyro.

od3flags
- what the fuck is going on?
- the hud doesn't display nearly enough information
- this security fence feels extremely bandaid-sightline-fix-y
- there are like five announcer lines playing at once all the time
- every doorway is tiny. i hate fighting around them

cinders
- red forward directs players to C point
- i feel like i have no options when defending.
- the approach to B is literally two corridors
- both B and C have this awkward blu sniper perch and dropdown. it sucks to defend against.
- the balcony over C is especially dire because RED has to overextend past the two tiny choke doorways to access it

arrival
- i'm lost
- what on earth gamemode am i playing
- please make your layout out of brushwork primarily
- a lot of interior spaces have noisy geometry that is awful to navigate
- what's with the area under and behind the spawn??
- where are the pickups?
- walked out of spawn and lost most of my health to a sniper 2000hu away. cool

pullsnake
- hell of a hard push for an A point. the back flank is easily choked out. blu gets no advantages.
- there's a little corner by an A flank that a sentry can be put in that's super hard to dislodge.
- the right staircase in A point room feels like a flank but puts me onto the main path. this is fine, if a little disorienting.
- having trouble as pyro around B - there's very little space around the cart path, so i don't have any options to flank without being dumped into a sentry that can cover every option i have.
- last is several layers of high grounds that blu has to push all at once. we were pretty much steamrolled until a dead stop at last. way too much for blu to clear.

ibex2021
- kinda wide around A. i was able to flank behind completely uncontested.
- i'm having fun!
- last is the weakest part of the map. lots of long, open sightlines over it.

gridiron
- there's a big sightline right through lobby that you can't avoid in most situations.
- why do they get a doorway directly to our spawn doors?
- dim as hell in places.
- i'm struggling to see team colours in multiple areas.
- lighting by the furnaces is so strongly coloured i mistook a blu sniper for a red one (!!!!!!!!!!!)
- the jump pad sometimes sends people directly upwards
- i can't figure out why but a lot of this geometry is not fun to fight around.
- the only captures have been backcaps.

altitude
- interesting
- B gets rolled a lot - really easy for BLU to skip past A before even capturing it.
- last is weak. messy routes, lots of angles. standing on the point without being shot from at least three directions is imposssible. i enjoy the cliff flank.

gushdown
- very dark inside.
- no ldr lightmaps
- i'm really lost
- extremely blown out hdr. use a tonemap controller.
- left spawn, dropped and lost 20 health, got gunned down by the entire blu team on C point *behind me*???
- doors are set up wrong - use starttouchall.
- the river is a bad idea. players can barely get out and they get flushed all the way to the final point, active or not. it would ruin player flow in a map that had any.

rumford
- last spreads blu out a lot and makes it hard to push outside of steamrolls.
- it's okay for the most part.
- i think A is the strongest part of the map.

Red Dagger · Apr 22, 2021

FloofCollie · Apr 23, 2021

MAP | SCORE | NOTES
3flags | 1 | Others have summed this up better than I could
Affront | 3 |

This feels very solid and fun's been had on it but nothing really sticks out to me. C in particular feels kind of uninteresting, with most routes being equally sized doorways with odd rotation times and on B I always feel like my back's against the wall as a defender. A feels odd with the balcony that I imagine would be overpowered if Red remembered it was there lol. I guess balance-wise it seems like it works out okay but I don't find it too engaging.

Altitude | 4 |

I love the look and feel of all the areas on this map, but it feels like something's maybe off. C in particular, feels like the main engagements happen in the lobby while the main point feels too small and underutilized to be the star attraction. Navigation around it is a little awkward and it feels like most of it goes unused (as Blu I've never used the dropdown to go round to Red's highground on the other side, but that might just be me). B feels odd, as though the main defensive holds are just scattered encounters before the point building, and then there aren't many effective places to hold past that except for the covered side of the roof. I don't think I have the expertise to really give much more feedback, but it's got nice ideas.

Arrival | 1 |

The gamemode premise is definitely interesting but the map does not feel like it was designed well. Bizarre spawnroom layout, lack of pickups, incredibly vast stretches of flat ground and long Sniper sightlines, convoluted routes that don't serve much function, really odd prop placement including a big wall of nothing but crates and a room filled with benches that don't do anything except get in the way of combat, and an objective that feels like it could be streamlined somewhat - for instance, a simplified version could have clearly labelled capture areas that unlock or open when the flag has to be taken there like a Player Destruction map, or something like that.

Chestnut Woods | 1 |

Really unfun. The map is leaked and has horrible framerate all throughout. The layout is mostly claustrophobic corridors filled to the brim with props that don't serve a purpose other than cluttering and obstructing movement or making it even more chokey.

Cinders | 2 |

This feels functional but I never have fun on it. The grand majority of playtime seems to be spent in the A-B connectors which are composed of fighting through boxy corridors that are all on the exact same height with nothing interesting to fight around except doorways, with clearly unintended sightlines stretching through. The whole map is a straight line and feels as though it's been constrained to a rectangle, none of the points are interesting and C is not fun for either team, with two of the attack routes being close to each other and able to be locked down simultaneously, one of which is a fairly useless lowground route next to a deathpit. If you look at Upward B's cliffside flank, it bends around the cliff face to create cover that blocks sight from one end to the next. It also has subtle height variation. The one in this map sucks to be in and defenders don't have to go anywhere near it to lock it down. Defenders are burdened by the need to fling projectile spam at the ridiculously high route Blu get to rain down on them, and holds crumbling normally seem to be the result of Red forgetting to do that. I suppose it is quite interesting that you have to keep Blu at bay this way while trying to push in through the other routes to clear out a potential Uber push before it happens, but it mostly feels like a lot of nothing. The most interesting part of the map to me is the opening area outside Blu spawn.

Crawdad | 1 |

Beyond unpacked asset issues, the layout is not very fun, with lots of narrow corridors/walkways and the main gimmick of there being three flags seems redundant - the third is a neutral flag that is always the go-to option because it's gonna be less well-guarded than the one in the enemy's base.

Dayspring | 3 |

It's fine enough, and fun has been had on it, but it's not very inspiring. So much of the map consists of really wide stretches of flat ground, some parts feel like they're constrained to a shape that isn't serving it well (particularly the room before last) and the only memorable part is the sawblade finale. There are some odd quirks like the one-way door that red can use which seem a bit out of place, and pushing C is really unpleasant as your lobby is the boxy log room where awkward sightlines and combat angles have to be paid attention to while you're balancing on the thin walkways (which restrict how you can evade defenders pushing in), which are above an honestly quite useless lowground with no easy way back up, with a long flat corridor attached to the side in an uninspired manner. For C's lobby, I would suggest looking at Badlands' lobby and how all entrances are within reasonable rotation, and how the basement path to the point could be thought of as an equivalent to the Payload path. For the map as a whole, I would try to keep in mind the general combat distance of around 512 units, and try to introduce a lot of subtle gradual height variation that keeps things interesting.

Gratuite | 2 |

It definitely feels dynamic and constantly active but honestly none of the points are really fun to fight in and it just feels like a chore to cap when the cap time are sooooo long. For the points themselves, A and C both have the issue of being pushed to the very edge of the map, with linear paths leading to them along the edges and mostly useless exposed lowground inbetween. I think both could benefit from the points being closer to the centre for more interesting contesting. B feels alright I suppose, but I think there's a big problem with how the boundaries between each teams' spawn areas and the point arenas are defined - in Standin, the spawns exit into relatively spacious areas before the points, which are technically still part of the point arenas but are separated enough that you're not engaging with people near the point the moment you exit spawn. Here, it feels like you use one of two small shutter doors to enter the point area and are immediately engaged with nowhere to go unless you want to exit the fight entirely and retreat to spawn. The design of B being on such a different plane to A and C is interesting in theory but in practice just makes rotating quite annoying and confusing for a bit until you've got it down.

Gridiron | 2 |

I can't really comment much on this as I'm not experienced with Pass time design. I never really have fun on it and I don't know if that's down to the mode or the map, but matches always last forever. Most of the combat feels fine enough I suppose.

Gushdown | 1 |

Barely functional layout-wise. No cohesive flow or direction, height levels are way too extreme, areas often exist mostly for the sake of it, inescapable rivers, barely anything is clipped off and lighting-related compile issues. Seems like inexperience with mapping for this game

Ibex2021 | 3 |

Every part of the map feels odd in some way; the opening area feels really restricted in that you either take the bridges or you go down into the lowground that makes up the majority of the area and is so so low down compared to the highground that it makes fights going on feel really disconnected from each other. After this, it feels like the track winds through closed-in tall walls and it just feels uninspiring. To its credit it doesn't feel too bad. Then there's B which I never feel like I'm taking part in the fight for - it feels like it's the wrong way round, with Blu descending down on Red and Red having only very specific spots to defend from. The openness is a welcome relief after A but it kind of feels underutilized. Finally C, which is probably the most solid in terms of how open it feels and the combat encounters. Unfortunately it feels very overcomplicated at the final point, attacking all defensive spots at once from your attacking routes feels overwhelming and it feels like Red gets really good cover to ignore most of them.

Kennecott | 1 |

Nothing to say that hasn't been already, pretty much unplayable

Mache | 3 |

It feels solid enough but some parts feel off. I've already feedbacked how disconnected the raised tower at A feels, it's really more of a chore than anything to take people out there and attacking it via the staircase or trying to find a good vantage point to it while being exposed to defenders is awkward. I still think this should be lowered to be a more reasonable/comfortable position. B is probably the most interesting in regards to the one-way door but it feels so restricted as either team, you just have a valley choke that doesn't feel like you can gain a solid foothold on even after you've pushed Red back, and the one-way and dropdown where you're usually just waiting for Uber to build or trying to sneak in as a weaker class and seeing what happens. C is probably my least favourite point, with most of it being on lowground that makes you super exposed to crossfire, it feels less like rotating between areas dynamically and more like committing to one pretty formulaic defensive position, while as an attacker it just feels weird having a long stretch of pseudo-lobby where you're waiting next to the fence for banners/uber to build or crossing over to a hill where you just rain down on people or take a more passive role of lobbing grenades over the cover.

Mot | 3 |

Feels like a solid enough combination of 3 KOTHs. I've had fun here, I don't think I have the expertise to give much feedback. The third stage feels the weakest with the bonkers high ground each team has looking over the point and the lack of options to avoid the point. The first two stages feel like they have a wealth of combat areas that aren't usually explored because they're near spawn.

Pullsnake | 2 |

Feels odd all the way through. A is probably the part where I have the most fun, relatively open yet focusing down on a clear choke, but B is really unfun to me. Red just stand at the top of a long slope, where they're restricted because walking past it leaves them really exposed. At the top of the slope is a twisting corridor that's flat save for a balcony that's annoyingly high up. To counterract this holding position there's a network of flank routes that can take you all the way past the point and it's mostly just irritating for both sides in my eyes. There isn't any good forward hold position for Red so the majority of the long valley before the slope is never really fought in, and Red just retreat to the slope. The area before C feels uncomfortable there's a long sightline from B into the basement of C and a lot of open area that doesn't feel like it ever truly gets locked down by Blu thanks to how many ways there are for Red to flank around or bypass it. C itself feels too much like a funnel, with all entrances pretty much penetrating the same distance in, to more or less the same position, while on Red's side it branches way out and has a plethora of defensive positions of which there is no sensible way to reach. Picture a sentry in the windowed room, another on the highground used as a rollout for red to B, and another on Red's left highground, on top of the crate (this very setup is what happened in today's gameday). You can't Uber into any of these without either crossing a crazy distance, boxing yourself in by the time it fades or just being knocked back through one of your entrances which are very close together, and taking down all 3 seems implausible. The one thing I really like is the overseer windows at Red final spawn, which you don't even really notice as your back is to it, and it's just a minor visual element.

Rumford | 3 |

Definitely well-considered and overall good, but I'm not really feeling any of the points or areas. Too much of it feels like corridors of some kind, with most of the cart path being right angles down relatively narrow straight paths boxed in by tall walls or buildings. A has some interesting frontline dynamics with the control of the bank leading up to the bridge, but I don't really enjoy being restricted to a narrow bridge for predictable if powerfully irritating Sentry spots as Red. B is alright, and there's a fair amount of variance to it but again the closed-in feel of it just seems uninspiring to me. It feels like it could be opened up a bit and take up the same relative space. C doesn't really do it for me, Red seems to have to just have most people against the wall overlooking the final cap while power classes hold down the corridors that lead to Blu's only good vantage point - from Blu's perspective, it feels like there's a million angles you have to check (and it's honestly hard for me to spot defenders until it's too late sometimes), while your travel distance to reach the only good vantage points feels very long.

ro3md | 3 |

I'm a sucker for good steel-type, and especially outflow style but this feels like it needs consideration at a layout level. Rotating between entrances at C is a nightmare and all the combat spaces feel oddly small or restrictive to me. Navigation can be a challenge as a lot of areas look the same. The ideas are solid and I'd like to see it improved.

Spacewar | - | Not yet played
Watergarden | 2 |

It's a novel idea and the geometry is interesting in areas that aren't mid, but it feels a bit unfocused with the plethora of weird little water routes and such, and pretty much all the side areas to mid feel unimportant and without much purpose. Unfortunately I think the idea of a symmetrical map with an asymmetrical layout inherently puts one team at a disadvantage. All levels are pretty much identical to fight on which kind of defeats the purpose of the idea IMO, and fighting across the point on the bridges at mid isn't great because they're all massive and flat with no cover or anything to fight around. I think having the point move between floors that are much different and very much separated might have been better. However this would require players to clear out one area above the point as well as an entirely different one on the same level as the point, which is awkward. Definitely a tough setup to balance. The incredibly open design with no real meaty geometry to separate areas at mid also results in very poor framerate - iirc, the most expensive things seem to be players, so even in a low-detailed area, if lots of them are visible at once it can bring frames down. The areas need to be more distinctly separated for VBSP with more solid geometry.

Mess About · Apr 23, 2021

My unorganized feedbacks that I had while watching demos, my apologize if they sound rude

3flags - seems like some sort of experiment map rather than contest map
Affront - solid brushworks, cool detailing (especially the rails - forklift) interesting layout but not too complicated, (Red can follow along the map and find their CPs), but it appears to be very tight - not much room for the players to breath, and the transitional chokes between CPs are pretty brutal for Blu. Some areas serve only one purpose and become obsolete after CPs are capped (Blu's high-ground attack routes to B or the lobby in front of Red's first spawn), C is a bit simple for last
Cinders - (removed since the map has been updated)
Dayspring - "boxy" layout, all the routes are 90 degree angle turns, somewhat prop spamming. But the map has potential, its simplicity is its strength, if the layout is optimized: scale, angle, travel distance, position between routes; it can become a great map. One thing about Last, don't let Red to be able to step out and immediately interfere with the payload's progress, give them some sort of disadvantages
Gridiron - struggles happen mostly around the areas in front of mid rather than on mid or on the cap zone. Consider the back & forth nature of the game mode, I think it's bad to let one team to be able to control the middle area.
Ibex2021 - the map need to be simplified, some areas are very unnecessary (the whole place infront of Blu spawn for example), overall the layout is very bias against Red consider the number of flanks and routes that Red has to watch out for (beside that huge choke on A)
Ro3md - I think a separate route to C is ok as long as it's restricted to C only and no flanking behind A. In my opinion the purpose of C is to force Red to direct their attention away from A so Blu can have a chance to attack and that's it, C should be easy to defend so Red doesn't have to hold 2 CPs as once, I'm talking about something like cp_steel E (also Red first spawn is way to close to A so Blu has such a hard time attacking it)
Watergarden - interesting gamemode idea and artstyle, but the layout doesn't work
Mache - very decent map, solid brushworks, snow theme is just pretty, but my biggest concern with this map is the lack of break room between CPs: Blu spawn is right in front of A, and A is right next to B, there's just not much space between them. Layout wise B is the most interesting out of all 3, but the "deep" flank on A is very odd, because not just letting Blu to attack A from behind, it also allows them to have a massive high ground and direct access onto B, in the end the layout makes attacking A become very awkward for both sides because of all the angles (I want to point out that Red spawn being too close to A and the height difference is what make it so hard for Blu to attack). I can't comment on C because in the 2 demos that I watched, Blu never made it to last.
Mot - I think a 30s reward for each round is better than a whole 1 min, if one team wins the first map, and the other win the second, then in the end both will have 2:30 min cap time fair and square. For the layout, beside being completely different, i also think the 3rd map is the best out of all 3 because of its scale, while for the first 2 maps it seems like you want to eliminate all the possible sniper sightlines so you put up fences, walls, and rocks everywhere which in turn clutter the maps. Also on every maps there's always flank routes that let players go around the CPs, I'm not sure if that's a good idea. Also also there're some parts of the maps that are underused because of the spawn's position and lack of forward holding from the controlling team.
Altitude - prettiest map by far, but for layout I think A has way too many flanking routes that it is too difficult for Red to hold. B is the most interesting area but get rolled over too quickly, I'm not sure because Red can't respawn quick enough or because there're no places to hold. While C is way too small for a final CP and just not fun to fight.

Punn Ames Ardum · Apr 24, 2021

MAP | SCORE
3flags | n/a | n/a
Affront | 2.3 | good , but 2nd point sentries are a problem
Altitude | 4.2 | really nice and well themed, though timings feel off for me
Arrival | n/a | n/a
Chestnut Woods | 1 | cramped, even the spawns are cramped! there seems to be an overreliance on props to distract from the layout, though it shows potential
Cinders | 1.7 | hallways are peculiar to me (also there seems to be a "set up spawncamp here" room next to the blue spawn?) the 1st point is interesting even though a tad campable with sentries
Crawdad | 1 | The sky seemed to be missing and there was one flank route that just went to a water death pit along with the tunnels around the team's intel a bit bland
Dayspring | 2.3 | flat & too open, the ending is choke-y with the spawnroom right on it
Gratuite | 2.5 | fairly well made but it feels snail-ish and has sightlines
Gridiron | 3 | doesn't let me put the ball in the furnace to pop it out like popcorn, but it flows really well
Gushdown | n/a | (this is the map I made)
Ibex2021 | n/a |n/a
Kennecott | 1 | too open and the spawn times are not fun
Mache | 2.4 | too many random item spots and the final cap is slow to break through
Mot | 4.3 | three solid koth maps rolled into one, the final hill is open yet gives a lot of movement to the scout, it feels like none were rushed
Pullsnake | 2 | It seems large, yet it's somehow choke-y
Rumford | 2.9 | nice proportions, though it's chokey at places
ro3md | 3 | good layout though timely in camping and spawning- also it seems an info_observer_point wasn't put in so if everyone dies then it crashes
Spacewar | n/a | pull out of contest
Watergarden | n/a | n/a

Sergis · Apr 24, 2021

catfish · Apr 25, 2021

Defcon · Apr 25, 2021

MAP | SCORE | FEEDBACK
3flags | 1 |

There isn’t much to say about this that hasn’t already been said. The gamemode is just a more confusing version of invade ctf that punishes players for doing the objective. Layout itself felt extremely linear and unimaginative.

Affront | 2 |

Pacing of this map seems alright but I don’t find many areas particularly interesting or enjoyable to fight in. After A the layout becomes repetitive and confusing to navigate. B especially feels more like yet another lobby rather than an arena. Most gameplay on B and C involved me spamming doorways rather than actually fighting over the point itself.

Altitude | - |

I made this.

Arrival | 1 |

Suffers from typical new mapper issues; most of the layout is large flat spaces filled with props. The custom gamemode is completely unintuitive. I recommend sticking to stock modes until you get a better grasp of how to make an enjoyable layout.

Chestnut Woods | 1 |

Every area is extremely cramped and cluttered with props to the point where it’s nearly unplayable.

Cinders | 2 |

I occasionally had fun on this but I don’t find the layout terribly exciting. Most of the map is very boxy and linear, although there is something enjoyable about its simplicity. I think I had the most fun on A; B and C seem underdeveloped and rarely felt satisfying to attack or defend. B is mostly a flat yard with some props and modest height variation that usually gets rolled. C feels too narrow/small as Red can defend every route without having to rotate, but I rarely saw it successfully defended since Blu’s high ground also controls most of the room. I never felt like I had any reason not to use the upper route when attacking unless I was playing spy.

Crawdad | 1 |

Skybox was broken making it pretty much unplayable.

Dayspring | 1.5 |

This map was playable but I never really enjoyed myself on it. While the layout technically has height variation, the way it’s used still leaves the spaces feeling incredibly flat and devoid of interesting geometry to play around. All the verticality comes in the form of platforms and ledges with the ground between them being completely flat. All the cover comes in the form of crate and fence props. I would spend more time analyzing the maps you enjoy and trying to replicate those qualities in your own layouts.

Gratuite | 2 |

The most recent version of this map felt like a significant improvement but I only had a chance to play it once. There are still some weird scaling issues like barely player-width doorways and very long flat walkways on A and C. C definitely felt like the weakest point due to how difficult it is to rotate between the fairly extreme height differences. I’m also not a fan of the routes that go directly to the point from the spawn courtyards. Enemies showing up in our spawn courtyard and camping the narrow doorways/shutters was also a frequent issue.

Gridiron | 2 |

The most recent version of this map felt like an improvement in some ways but a step back in others. I like the reduced distance between mid and the goals, but mid has become very easy to hold which frequently caused one team to be locked in their base the entire round. Some areas like the courtyard outside mid are completely flat and devoid of cover, which isn’t great considering how much of the fighting happens there. Generally felt like the height variation in the latest version has become very conservative which seems like the opposite of what you’d want in a mode that emphasizes movement as much as passtime does.

Gushdown | 1 |

This was also more or less unplayable due to lighting issues.

Ibex2021 | 3 |

I enjoy the spaces on this map, especially the cliff section near B. I’m a big fan of how each point feels completely distinct from the others. A can be a slog if Red knows what they’re doing. Generally lots of fun layout ideas that are held back by pacing issues.

Kennecott | 1 |

Every area is oversized to the point where it’s more or less unplayable. Highly recommend comparing your map to official maps to get a better sense of scale.

Mache | 3 |

This map is enjoyable and plays pretty consistently in my experience, although I've always vaguely disliked something about the layout that I struggle to put my finger on. I left lots of feedback on the latest version that I think starts to get at what I think could be improved. The spawn area on A feels like a gameplay dead zone since Red has no options for a short-lived forward hold like they’d get on the first points of Gorge, Badwater, Upward, etc. The height differences around the point are interesting but I wish the levels weren’t so disconnected from each other so there’d be more interaction and rotation options between them. I probably have the most fun on B but I don’t love how it’s more or less just a flat yard with some fences. C feels a bit one-dimensional with how the routes are so close together and all converge on the same small courtyard. It kinda feels like Badwater last but without the fun verticality and distinct routes for Blu.

Mot | 3 |

I like all the interesting geo to play around and how each stage is fairly distinct, although it would have been nice for the sake of variety if they weren’t all rotationally symmetrical and didn’t all share the same linear viaduct-esque structure. Each stage feels a little half-baked to varying degrees; there’s lots of dead space that feels irrelevant to mid and I noticed some questionable sightlines.

Pullsnake | 1.5 |

I don’t really enjoy this map although the updates have brought a few modest improvements. First is a slog where Blu is dumped into a single choke with no meaningful flanks. The rest of the layout is pretty bland and feels like it lacks intention. The whole map would greatly benefit from some kind of unifying gameplay or thematic concept to give it a direction.

Rumford | 3 |

This map is pretty inoffensive and it’s probably the most balanced and consistent of all the contest entries so far. There are some issues with sightlines and B being slightly too defendable that others have already pointed out. Otherwise the layout usually doesn’t get in the way of me enjoying the game, but it rarely adds anything to my enjoyment either. I don’t find many of the spaces particularly memorable or interesting to fight in; most of the map feels like a hallway that barely deviates from the cart path. Consistency is great but I wish this map had taken more risks.

ro3md | 2 |

A few areas of this map are fairly enjoyable but it’s generally a bit clunky. I usually have the most fun on A. B feels too cramped for any interesting combat to happen and C feels like it gets progressively harder to cap the more points Blu owns. The only height advantage Blu gets on C is rendered fairly useless by the one-way door connecting to Red spawn.

Spacewar | withdrawn |
Watergarden | 1.5 |

This is a cool proof of concept but it needs a stronger layout to support it. There’s a labyrinth of side rooms to get lost in that don’t do much other than allow players to flank to the enemy spawn. There are also significant performance issues.

Keizer Ei · Apr 25, 2021

this is just enough maps right

Idolon · Apr 25, 2021

Voting is now closed. I'll be back with the results soon-ish.

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Contest #50: Rule of Threes [MINOR CONTEST] [VOTING]

lucky

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renton

Aulli

L4: Comfortable Member

dotmd

L2: Junior Member

pont

rawr

Red Dagger

L2: Junior Member

FloofCollie

I really suck!

Mess About

L7: Fancy Member

Punn Ames Ardum

L1: Registered

Sergis

L666: ])oo]v[

catfish

L1: Registered

Defcon

Keizer Ei

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Idolon

they/them

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