evanonline
L420: High Member
- Mar 15, 2009
- 485
- 273
I think this is a cool contest idea, very broad while still having a common theme. I say this EVERY contest but, I'm gonna try and enter this one!!
TF2Maps.net Major Mapping Contest #11: Mercs vs. Aliens - Sponsored by Ronin
- Thread starter Fruity Snacks
- Start date
I'd hope a proper physics explosion of the mothership is one of the things the pack will have for everyone... otherwise the requirement is stupid.
Well if any game mode is allowed, anything that isn't A/D would have to be like that. One team is aliens and if they win then the ship is NOT destroyed. The rules cannot be strictly adhered to in all cases.theharribokid said:
There is ways to make it so that in an A/D setting, red and blu both canonically and logically destroy the UFO.
Current UFO models are work in progress and will be updated as they are changed.
Like right now, UFO saucer has collision meshes now. Download here (and OP)
Current UFO models are work in progress and will be updated as they are changed.
Like right now, UFO saucer has collision meshes now. Download here (and OP)
That collision mesh seems wonky, at least according to Hammer:
Also, surprised I never noticed this before (unless it's changed?), but models in the custom folder don't show up in Hammer. Could have sworn they did at one point since that's where I had all my cp_antiquity stuff.
I'm also a little put off by the requirement to have the ship explode no matter what. Seems like that's especially contrary to payload. Very suitable to cp push or payload race, however.
Also, surprised I never noticed this before (unless it's changed?), but models in the custom folder don't show up in Hammer. Could have sworn they did at one point since that's where I had all my cp_antiquity stuff.
I'm also a little put off by the requirement to have the ship explode no matter what. Seems like that's especially contrary to payload. Very suitable to cp push or payload race, however.
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but but but, it's always better when spaceship chunks go flying and collide with the world and stuff. those things are very map specific!
That collision mesh seems wonky, at least according to Hammer:
Also, surprised I never noticed this before (unless it's changed?), but models in the custom folder don't show up in Hammer. Could have sworn they did at one point since that's where I had all my cp_antiquity stuff.
I'm also a little put off by the requirement to have the ship explode no matter what. Seems like that's especially contrary to payload. Very suitable to cp push or payload race, however.
True, but perhaps then we'll just have to forgo payload classic for payload race. Is it really that important?
the current download has a collision mesh.
takabuschik
aa
- Apr 14, 2013
- 662
- 344
IDK, but all my stuff is in the custom/customfiles file, and it's all just fine.
Maybe you forgot to put a subfolder? If so, read the readme file, it explains how to do it
There are settings for it in the func_capturezone... I dunno.
Well, it is an exceptionally popular game mode that we either have to ignore enitrely or figure out some hackneyed way of justifying an explosion no matter what...
It's more forgiveable in KOTH, where having it blow up no matter who wins doesn't require much thought. But for a PL map, the expectation is that there's an explosion only if BLU wins.
Not complaining, just pointing out.
The one in the pic is the current one, the _B version. It has a collision, it just doesn't look like it's oriented or scaled correctly.
Mothership needs to be destroyed. It can explode if you want
or
It could be teleported to a far away corner of the galaxy.
or
It could have a bajillion birds fly at it and peck it to death.
Sorry, clarification. The Winning objective (Either a point being capped, a bomb being pushed to the end or time running out on A/D or who ever holds a koth point for the full time durection) is what triggers the destruction of the mothership.
For example: Red and Blue are fighting on a KotH Map. The point is a power generator that activates a giant laser. The mercs want to fight over it because whoever is the side that pushes the 'fire' button, gets the money. Mercs love money, so they fight over control of it.
A/D, maybe Red has a vault with a secret weapon to destroy the ship and BLU wants to steal it. Red activates it when blu starts attacking (and thats the timer in A/D). Blu needs to get it before it activates so they can disarm and steam it (then use it themselves).
We're really pushing you guys to be creative as hell with this contest. Push the limits, take some risks and see what you can do. Failure is totally an option in this case if it means you're trying out something new and innovative. Be adaptive, be creative and have some fun with it.
(Also, try out new gameplay features. Low Grav, moving platforms, teleportation)
or
It could be teleported to a far away corner of the galaxy.
or
It could have a bajillion birds fly at it and peck it to death.
Sorry, clarification. The Winning objective (Either a point being capped, a bomb being pushed to the end or time running out on A/D or who ever holds a koth point for the full time durection) is what triggers the destruction of the mothership.
For example: Red and Blue are fighting on a KotH Map. The point is a power generator that activates a giant laser. The mercs want to fight over it because whoever is the side that pushes the 'fire' button, gets the money. Mercs love money, so they fight over control of it.
A/D, maybe Red has a vault with a secret weapon to destroy the ship and BLU wants to steal it. Red activates it when blu starts attacking (and thats the timer in A/D). Blu needs to get it before it activates so they can disarm and steam it (then use it themselves).
We're really pushing you guys to be creative as hell with this contest. Push the limits, take some risks and see what you can do. Failure is totally an option in this case if it means you're trying out something new and innovative. Be adaptive, be creative and have some fun with it.
(Also, try out new gameplay features. Low Grav, moving platforms, teleportation)
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can't I just remake koth_occult?... god damnit
(not an actual question)
but seriously tho, if someone is looking to make batshit explosions/special effects, I'm down to collab (like really down).
So my biggest problem is that I do not know what is in this theme pack that I am using. I have some options, though:
In my map, I can have the aliens just arriving. We don't want them on our Earth! Let's blow them up somehow! YEAH! [Aside, I see no logical way for two teams fighting one another to do this - the money reasoning of Frozen's is like a way for him to get out of having to explain other issues]. We would need assets that include a mothership and maybe smaller ships, and a couple things here or there, but for the most part, not much else.
--This would be basically a normal contest. Yay, I guess. But it would seem like a lot of effort and hype was put forth for nothing.
In my map, I can have the aliens having countered us for a long time (or hidden for a long time). They've established a sort of base on Earth. We don't want them on our Earth! Let's blow them up somehow! YEAH! [Aside, I see no logical way for two teams fighting one another to do this - the money reasoning of Frozen's is like a way for him to get out of having to explain other issues]. We would need assets for a spytech-like base, but with an alien theme (consoles, crates, barrels, etc.). Except, I don't know what I'll be provided with. Consoles, crates, barrels, etc. are common props used in alphas to help players get a sense of the environment that has yet to be put in there, and to help the mapper develop the map. It's not detail, but it's basically needed in an alpha. I can't just put normal consoles, crates, and barrels there - the scale may be different: I may put two consoles here and have a small path next to it, but the alien console might be bigger by what the modeller thinks isn't too much, but it completely throws my map out of sync, and now I need to resize an area in a beta. Shit.
--This seems like a neat idea, but we run into the problem of making it seem like either RED is defending the aliens or is the aliens, but...not alien-like?, and it just makes zero sense. Or it's koth and we're fighting over a point to destroy the aliens instead of destroying the aliens and maybe having conflicts on the battlefield?
In my map, I could have a stage where I'm in the alien mothership. [Aside, I see no logical way for two teams fighting one another to do this - the money reasoning of Frozen's is like a way for him to get out of having to explain other issues]. We would need assets for a spytech-like base, but with an alien theme (consoles, crates, barrels, door frames, etc.). Except, I don't know what I'll be provided with. How big are my alien-style doorways? I have zero clue, so I guess I'll map this alpha out with a 160-wide doorway. Sure, that sounds good. But my map is laid out in such a way that the wall there is only, like, 16 units wider than the door frame. Boy I hope the alien door frame model isn't much bigger! <Later> Oh hey the alien door frame model is out! YEAH! Oh wait, it's 196 units wide.
--...Yup.
Also, Ronin and BANG! make it sound like this contest is leading to something. My prediction: Valve and you are in contact and they want a new community map (I mean, let's be cereal here: they recently discussed how upset they were that they've been slacking on buying community maps) that leads to the new map that Valve is making related to a moonbase (I mean, let's be cereal here: you're not allowing a moonbase).
As Muffin (Umb) said, I don't like making something that leads to something I am unaware of. Just tell us what we're doing, and make the models BEFORE you announce the contest.
[And with that, I depart to a far away land where I am without a computer for 24 hours]
Edit: Also, what kind of aliens are these? Laser/energy-technologically advanced race? Virus-like race where they just infect our things and make the alien-y? A different kind? If I planned for an infection-like race of aliens to be holding the used-to-be-abandoned sawmill I want my team to secure to produce wood for our sword handles and demo shields, I'll build that way. PSYCH, they're just really technologically advanced! Now I have no way to alter my plans for this entire mid section. Gotta rebuild it halfway through the contest period!
In my map, I can have the aliens just arriving. We don't want them on our Earth! Let's blow them up somehow! YEAH! [Aside, I see no logical way for two teams fighting one another to do this - the money reasoning of Frozen's is like a way for him to get out of having to explain other issues]. We would need assets that include a mothership and maybe smaller ships, and a couple things here or there, but for the most part, not much else.
--This would be basically a normal contest. Yay, I guess. But it would seem like a lot of effort and hype was put forth for nothing.
In my map, I can have the aliens having countered us for a long time (or hidden for a long time). They've established a sort of base on Earth. We don't want them on our Earth! Let's blow them up somehow! YEAH! [Aside, I see no logical way for two teams fighting one another to do this - the money reasoning of Frozen's is like a way for him to get out of having to explain other issues]. We would need assets for a spytech-like base, but with an alien theme (consoles, crates, barrels, etc.). Except, I don't know what I'll be provided with. Consoles, crates, barrels, etc. are common props used in alphas to help players get a sense of the environment that has yet to be put in there, and to help the mapper develop the map. It's not detail, but it's basically needed in an alpha. I can't just put normal consoles, crates, and barrels there - the scale may be different: I may put two consoles here and have a small path next to it, but the alien console might be bigger by what the modeller thinks isn't too much, but it completely throws my map out of sync, and now I need to resize an area in a beta. Shit.
--This seems like a neat idea, but we run into the problem of making it seem like either RED is defending the aliens or is the aliens, but...not alien-like?, and it just makes zero sense. Or it's koth and we're fighting over a point to destroy the aliens instead of destroying the aliens and maybe having conflicts on the battlefield?
In my map, I could have a stage where I'm in the alien mothership. [Aside, I see no logical way for two teams fighting one another to do this - the money reasoning of Frozen's is like a way for him to get out of having to explain other issues]. We would need assets for a spytech-like base, but with an alien theme (consoles, crates, barrels, door frames, etc.). Except, I don't know what I'll be provided with. How big are my alien-style doorways? I have zero clue, so I guess I'll map this alpha out with a 160-wide doorway. Sure, that sounds good. But my map is laid out in such a way that the wall there is only, like, 16 units wider than the door frame. Boy I hope the alien door frame model isn't much bigger! <Later> Oh hey the alien door frame model is out! YEAH! Oh wait, it's 196 units wide.
--...Yup.
Also, Ronin and BANG! make it sound like this contest is leading to something. My prediction: Valve and you are in contact and they want a new community map (I mean, let's be cereal here: they recently discussed how upset they were that they've been slacking on buying community maps) that leads to the new map that Valve is making related to a moonbase (I mean, let's be cereal here: you're not allowing a moonbase).
As Muffin (Umb) said, I don't like making something that leads to something I am unaware of. Just tell us what we're doing, and make the models BEFORE you announce the contest.
[And with that, I depart to a far away land where I am without a computer for 24 hours]
Edit: Also, what kind of aliens are these? Laser/energy-technologically advanced race? Virus-like race where they just infect our things and make the alien-y? A different kind? If I planned for an infection-like race of aliens to be holding the used-to-be-abandoned sawmill I want my team to secure to produce wood for our sword handles and demo shields, I'll build that way. PSYCH, they're just really technologically advanced! Now I have no way to alter my plans for this entire mid section. Gotta rebuild it halfway through the contest period!
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Y'all a bunch a bow-legged mangy dogs. Frozen tells you to make a map that is a physical representation of a tornado-swept French town made solely with dirt, then you'd better be brushing upon your power 4 displacements. Deal with it.
He clearly has his reasons as to why he isn't budging on this topic, so stop trying to pressure him and start finding ways of solving this unique challenge. This is the first contest where you''re getting an entire freakin' content pack. Go nuts!
EDIT: Reworded to have fewer naughty words, while still having the same healthy whole-grain message. Forgot that a few words are a little stronger state-side than in the UK.
He clearly has his reasons as to why he isn't budging on this topic, so stop trying to pressure him and start finding ways of solving this unique challenge. This is the first contest where you''re getting an entire freakin' content pack. Go nuts!
EDIT: Reworded to have fewer naughty words, while still having the same healthy whole-grain message. Forgot that a few words are a little stronger state-side than in the UK.
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- Jan 6, 2008
- 2,289
- 1,372
Despite all denials, I find the theme restrictive, and here's why.
Every idea I've come up with for this contest is immediately thwarted by the weirdly insistent idea that the mothership has to be destroyed as a result of a victory.
Let's say I want to make a 5CP map where the players are fighting in an environment affected by aliens (let's say tractor beams). That seems pretty cool and provides space for a lot of interesting new gameplay! So wait, how do I connect a victory with the destruction of the mothership? Does BLU take over RED's base and take control of their laser or something? Why didn't they use their own laser then?
Well then, let's try an A/D CP or PL map, and let's incorporate some other alien element into the gameplay. Maybe the UFOs are shooting instead this time, and if you don't watch out, they could kill you. That's a pretty cool hazard! But wait a second, if BLU are pushing the Payload into territory defended by RED in order to destroy the aliens... why are RED trying to stop them? Are they hoping for BLU to run out of time so they can push the Payload to the end themselves? Do they just want them gone so they can press the 'destroy aliens' button on their own? I can't think of any reasonable ideas here.
How about a CTF map then, maybe full of weird alien tentacles trying to attack you? That sounds pretty sweet. Except... how would the enemy intelligence help your team destroy the aliens? Does it contain the secret code to launch your missiles? I suppose that could work, although I fail to understand why the other team would have stolen that in the first place if they had their own missile. And how the heck do you convey that without excessive use of narrative?
Okay, okay, I know it seems like I'm strawmanning the hell out of this, but I don't mean it that way. I'm just trying to show you why I'm having a lot of trouble coming up with any sort of remotely convincing narrative, and it's just super frustrating that the rules are so adamant about absolutely having to destroy the mothership. What's so bad about a map simply set during an alien attack? Why can't I make it so the aliens are on RED's side during an A/D map? This contest is clearly trying to provide lots of creative freedom, and I appreciate that, but the problem is that you're telling us we can only be creative in a way that is way more specific than you might realize.
Every idea I've come up with for this contest is immediately thwarted by the weirdly insistent idea that the mothership has to be destroyed as a result of a victory.
Let's say I want to make a 5CP map where the players are fighting in an environment affected by aliens (let's say tractor beams). That seems pretty cool and provides space for a lot of interesting new gameplay! So wait, how do I connect a victory with the destruction of the mothership? Does BLU take over RED's base and take control of their laser or something? Why didn't they use their own laser then?
Well then, let's try an A/D CP or PL map, and let's incorporate some other alien element into the gameplay. Maybe the UFOs are shooting instead this time, and if you don't watch out, they could kill you. That's a pretty cool hazard! But wait a second, if BLU are pushing the Payload into territory defended by RED in order to destroy the aliens... why are RED trying to stop them? Are they hoping for BLU to run out of time so they can push the Payload to the end themselves? Do they just want them gone so they can press the 'destroy aliens' button on their own? I can't think of any reasonable ideas here.
How about a CTF map then, maybe full of weird alien tentacles trying to attack you? That sounds pretty sweet. Except... how would the enemy intelligence help your team destroy the aliens? Does it contain the secret code to launch your missiles? I suppose that could work, although I fail to understand why the other team would have stolen that in the first place if they had their own missile. And how the heck do you convey that without excessive use of narrative?
Okay, okay, I know it seems like I'm strawmanning the hell out of this, but I don't mean it that way. I'm just trying to show you why I'm having a lot of trouble coming up with any sort of remotely convincing narrative, and it's just super frustrating that the rules are so adamant about absolutely having to destroy the mothership. What's so bad about a map simply set during an alien attack? Why can't I make it so the aliens are on RED's side during an A/D map? This contest is clearly trying to provide lots of creative freedom, and I appreciate that, but the problem is that you're telling us we can only be creative in a way that is way more specific than you might realize.
ellacourn
L1: Registered
- Jun 12, 2014
- 16
- 9
I'll like to say that, what you just said there was pretty messed up. Even for someone who says some terrible things, that is awful. And I'm very disappointed in you. I expected better from you.
As for the theme, I want no part in it. While I like that they want us to make maps for Valve, I just don't want to do that. I will not be participating in this years contests, any of them. I believe in artistic freedom and this contest isn't it.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have Manga Mode to make.
