TF2Maps.net Major Mapping Contest #11: Mercs vs. Aliens - Sponsored by Ronin

Fruity Snacks

Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums
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Sep 5, 2010
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I'd like to clear up that I have never said anything about Valve being involved and would, right now happily stomp that. This is a mapping contest with us, sponsored by Ronin.

They wanted to make a content and theme pack. and this is how we're starting with it. You guys get to help develop the theme pack along side it.
 

Ida

deer
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Jan 6, 2008
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Let me just ask a couple of simple questions and I promise I'll stop complaining:

What is the specific reason there has to be a dynamic narrative in the map, and this exact one at that?

Why is it absolutely not allowed to have an alien attack theme without the required ending?
(I've already provided examples as to how I could do that)
 
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Sep 19, 2010
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So just to clarify, if I do a payload map and the mothership is only destroyed when Blu successfully pushes the cart to the end, that's fine? Or does the mothership have to be destroyed even if Red wins by defending?
 

TyeZenneth

L6: Sharp Member
May 31, 2014
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So just to clarify, if I do a payload map and the mothership is only destroyed when Blu successfully pushes the cart to the end, that's fine? Or does the mothership have to be destroyed even if Red wins by defending?
It always has to blow up, yes.
 

RubbishyUser

L7: Fancy Member
Feb 17, 2013
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To clarify what I said earlier about rising to the challenge, consider Valve's situation in Doomsday. They knew the end result was the launch of a doomed rocket, regardless of whether BLU or RED won. Here, they made the real differentiator between the winning and losing teams a case of which hut the rocket landed on - nothing more.

You could extend that to Payload in your alien map. Maybe the payload destroys a RED laser that brings down the mothership on some red buildings - or maybe the laser fires, and the ship drops on the blue side instead. Players won't notice that the outcome is virtually the same either way - they won, the other team lost, some aliens died.

I think some people are over-thinking how involved in the standard RED vs. BLU battle the aliens have to be.
 

grazr

Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle
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Mar 4, 2008
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So my biggest problem is that I do not know what is in this theme pack that I am using. I have some options, though:

In my map, I can have the aliens just arriving. We don't want them on our Earth! Let's blow them up somehow! YEAH! [Aside, I see no logical way for two teams fighting one another to do this - the money reasoning of Frozen's is like a way for him to get out of having to explain other issues]. We would need assets that include a mothership and maybe smaller ships, and a couple things here or there, but for the most part, not much else.
--This would be basically a normal contest. Yay, I guess. But it would seem like a lot of effort and hype was put forth for nothing.

In my map, I can have the aliens having countered us for a long time (or hidden for a long time). They've established a sort of base on Earth. We don't want them on our Earth! Let's blow them up somehow! YEAH! [Aside, I see no logical way for two teams fighting one another to do this - the money reasoning of Frozen's is like a way for him to get out of having to explain other issues]. We would need assets for a spytech-like base, but with an alien theme (consoles, crates, barrels, etc.). Except, I don't know what I'll be provided with. Consoles, crates, barrels, etc. are common props used in alphas to help players get a sense of the environment that has yet to be put in there, and to help the mapper develop the map. It's not detail, but it's basically needed in an alpha. I can't just put normal consoles, crates, and barrels there - the scale may be different: I may put two consoles here and have a small path next to it, but the alien console might be bigger by what the modeller thinks isn't too much, but it completely throws my map out of sync, and now I need to resize an area in a beta. Shit.
--This seems like a neat idea, but we run into the problem of making it seem like either RED is defending the aliens or is the aliens, but...not alien-like?, and it just makes zero sense. Or it's koth and we're fighting over a point to destroy the aliens instead of destroying the aliens and maybe having conflicts on the battlefield?

In my map, I could have a stage where I'm in the alien mothership. [Aside, I see no logical way for two teams fighting one another to do this - the money reasoning of Frozen's is like a way for him to get out of having to explain other issues]. We would need assets for a spytech-like base, but with an alien theme (consoles, crates, barrels, door frames, etc.). Except, I don't know what I'll be provided with. How big are my alien-style doorways? I have zero clue, so I guess I'll map this alpha out with a 160-wide doorway. Sure, that sounds good. But my map is laid out in such a way that the wall there is only, like, 16 units wider than the door frame. Boy I hope the alien door frame model isn't much bigger! <Later> Oh hey the alien door frame model is out! YEAH! Oh wait, it's 196 units wide.
--...Yup.


Also, Ronin and BANG! make it sound like this contest is leading to something. My prediction: Valve and you are in contact and they want a new community map (I mean, let's be cereal here: they recently discussed how upset they were that they've been slacking on buying community maps) that leads to the new map that Valve is making related to a moonbase (I mean, let's be cereal here: you're not allowing a moonbase).

As Muffin (Umb) said, I don't like making something that leads to something I am unaware of. Just tell us what we're doing, and make the models BEFORE you announce the contest.

[And with that, I depart to a far away land where I am without a computer for 24 hours]

Edit: Also, what kind of aliens are these? Laser/energy-technologically advanced race? Virus-like race where they just infect our things and make the alien-y? A different kind? If I planned for an infection-like race of aliens to be holding the used-to-be-abandoned sawmill I want my team to secure to produce wood for our sword handles and demo shields, I'll build that way. PSYCH, they're just really technologically advanced! Now I have no way to alter my plans for this entire mid section. Gotta rebuild it halfway through the contest period!

You're thinking too much about this.

We're given the freedom to theme our maps in any environment, apline/desert/farm/industrial and this is a complaint because apparently variaty arbitrarily = bad now?

There are plenty of reasons you could create for two teams to compete in blowing up a mothership.

Perhaps there are two UFO's, but who ever destroys the first scares the second and so the team that wins gets to sift through the debree for reverse engineering possibilities.

Perhaps each team thinks the UFO is a plot by the other team so they rush to destroy it.

Perhaps you have been contracted by a third party and the winning team gets financial subsidies or weapons or something.

The only thing that really could have been improved is a "what is expected in your final product" as just reading over a dozen rules is a bit convoluted.

If you want specific assets. Collaborate.
 

Turbo Lover

Fight me under Glasgow Central Station
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Feb 15, 2011
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Personally I don't see a problem with the rules in place, they don't pose a problem for what I want to do with this contest.

But I also have to ask, if this many people are so unhappy with the rule, isn't that sufficient reason to reconsider it? If the majority agree that the rule is too restricting, then irrespective of its inevitable conclusion, some re-evaluation is in order.

I'm hesitant to enter this discussion because I don't feel any one side in this debacle is being truly fair, it seems everyone is on edge and antagonistic about this whole ordeal.

So, let's all be sure to act reasonable and level-headed in these important discussions, it'll make this business pass all the quicker.
 

Crash

func_nerd
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Mar 1, 2010
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No it's not reasonable to reconsider a rule if a lot of people are unhappy. Nothing would ever get accomplished on the internet if this was the case.

Be patient, let things ride out a bit, give Frozen the benefit of the doubt here.

And besides, at least it's not "prep up," amirite? :)
 

Bakscratch

Finisher of Maps
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Oct 29, 2010
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Red and Blu are fighting over who gets the honor of taking out the mothership.

There, all gamemodes now work for it.

Be creative, you nerds.

ctf_debate, teams have to bring the documents into a court where they decided who will be the Mothership destroyer.
 

Fruity Snacks

Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums
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So just to clarify, if I do a payload map and the mothership is only destroyed when Blu successfully pushes the cart to the end, that's fine? Or does the mothership have to be destroyed even if Red wins by defending?

If BLU wins, alien ship blows up.
If RED wins, alien ship blows up.
 

Fruity Snacks

Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums
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Maybe I missed it in all those posts, but: with all other things meeting the criteria, is one team playing as/for the aliens allowed?

Yea, if you can replace the models, go for it.

EDIT: if you can make that work visually, narratively, canonically.
 

Ida

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Jan 6, 2008
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Yea, if you can replace the models, go for it.

EDIT: if you can make that work visually, narratively, canonically.

So if RED plays for the aliens, and they win... does the mothership still have to blow up?
 

MegapiemanPHD

Doctorate in Deliciousness
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Mar 31, 2012
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The simplest idea I can think up for this is just a MVM map where the robots are skinned to look like Aliens. I don't see anything in the rules saying that a MVM map wouldn't be allowed but in that case, if the mercs where to lose, would the a mothership still need to explode? Also I would be interested in collaborating with someone to make alien skins for the robots if this kinda thing still fits the contest.
 

wareya

L420: High Member
Jun 17, 2012
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I'm not participating in this contest specifically because it's all about a third party's personal thing. I refuse to make a complete map tied down to something like that. That goes for the 72hr, too, because its theme is bad for a 72hr theme (either zero relevance to gameplay or incredibly restrictive to layout/gamemode in any interpretation) and said theme is what it is because of this contest.
 
Mar 23, 2010
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