PLR Snowramp [Deleted]

[alkaL1ne]

i dont wanna money i just want that one of my maps gets in the game

It's probably not going to be in the blink of an eye - pretty much every map that got into the game went through an alpha, a beta and a release candidate phase of sorts. They spend tens of iterations trying to perfect the gameplay - they don't just release it automatically. They keep updating it, and spends hours upon hours upon hours making it the best map it can be, be it through extensive testing, optimization or detailing.

So, if you do want to get your maps in the game, start out with a simple alpha with dev textures, maybe displacements on the ground. Then go bit by bit leading it to becoming a great map.

 

[TMB]

It's probably not going to be in the blink of an eye - pretty much every map that got into the game went through an alpha, a beta and a release candidate phase of sorts. They spend tens of iterations trying to perfect the gameplay - they don't just release it automatically. They keep updating it, and spends hours upon hours upon hours making it the best map it can be, be it through extensive testing, optimization or detailing.

So, if you do want to get your maps in the game, start out with a simple alpha with dev textures, maybe displacements on the ground. Then go bit by bit leading it to becoming a great map.

Make that is losing time, is stupid i dont understand why people do that.

 

[ExtraCheesyPie]

It's probably not going to be in the blink of an eye - pretty much every map that got into the game went through an alpha, a beta and a release candidate phase of sorts. They spend tens of iterations trying to perfect the gameplay - they don't just release it automatically. They keep updating it, and spends hours upon hours upon hours making it the best map it can be, be it through extensive testing, optimization or detailing.

So, if you do want to get your maps in the game, start out with a simple alpha with dev textures, maybe displacements on the ground. Then go bit by bit leading it to becoming a great map.

To be honest, dev textures aren't needed. I know people will complain about it for ages, but it really doesn't matter.

 

[Muddy]

i dont wanna money i just want that one of my maps gets in the game

Do you think people like heyo or 3dnj were great mappers from the outset? Like they just picked up Hammer one day and built a masterpiece? Spoiler warning, they didn't. Instead heyo made cp_junction lolololololololol

Point is, if you want to get a map into the game, you better be prepared to put the work in.

 

[MaccyF]

i dont wanna money i just want that one of my maps gets in the game

why is it that you're so focused on getting into game if you don't mind me asking? Also wanting a map in game isn't a bad goal by any means, especially given this year's updates, but you have to understand that getting a map to a high enough standard to be included will take a lot of iterating.

As a side note; Here is a thread showing early versions of goldrush and badwater, changed quite a bit haven't they?

 

[TMB]

why is it that you're so focused on getting into game if you don't mind me asking? Also wanting a map in game isn't a bad goal by any means, especially given this year's updates, but you have to understand that getting a map to a high enough standard to be included will take a lot of iterating.

As a side note; Here is a thread showing early versions of goldrush and badwater, changed quite a bit haven't they?

Well, im not like that people, i dont understan why people change maps a lot, im different and i think my way is better but looks like everyone its strange and they have to do 100230923 versions of the same map. Good for they!

 

[Vel0city]

i dont wanna money i just want that one of my maps gets in the game

Make that is losing time, is stupid i dont understand why people do that.

Ok, sir, you need to change your way of thinking about mapping as a whole. Feedback is mission critical information and determines whether a map succeeds or not. Maps don't get in the game willy nilly, most of em take at least a year of being up at the top of the workshop with people actively playing the map in order to even be considered for official material. For that you need to be actively listening to the feedback you get so you can iron out the bad spots and make a great map. Most importantly, you need to have fun with it.

Your attitude towards mapping, as far as I've seen it, isn't about having a blast doing it. You think you have to get a map official asap whatever the cost. Sorry pal, but that's just not going to happen. At all. Stop believing in that.

Look at the community maps, both the top rated non-official and now official maps selected by Valve to be in the game. Glassworks, Snowycoast, etc. Glassworks is a fine example of taking feedback and applying it to a layout because its entire development has been captured on video by Crash. I recommend you watch the changelog videos he made at least 2x so you understand how a map gets to be great. I dare to say it's 80% feedback, 20% mapper's own input as soon as A2 is being made, with A1 being more like 99% mapper's own input (you'll always have suggestions coming in when you share your pre-alpha work based off of screenshots).

Well, im not like that people, i dont understan why people change maps a lot, im different and i think my way is better but looks like everyone its strange and they have to do 100230923 versions of the same map. Good for they!

Stop thinking that way is better. It just isn't. That's not even my own opinion, that's a fact. A map isn't perfect from day 1. It takes months and months or even years to make it perfect and even then you'll never have absolute perfection. That's just not going to happen, too many variables are in play for that.

 

[TMB]

thanks

Ok, sir, you need to change your way of thinking about mapping as a whole. Feedback is mission critical information and determines whether a map succeeds or not. Maps don't get in the game willy nilly, most of em take at least a year of being up at the top of the workshop with people actively playing the map in order to even be considered for official material. For that you need to be actively listening to the feedback you get so you can iron out the bad spots and make a great map. Most importantly, you need to have fun with it.

Your attitude towards mapping, as far as I've seen it, isn't about having a blast doing it. You think you have to get a map official asap whatever the cost. Sorry pal, but that's just not going to happen. At all. Stop believing in that.

Look at the community maps, both the top rated non-official and now official maps selected by Valve to be in the game. Glassworks, Snowycoast, etc. Glassworks is a fine example of taking feedback and applying it to a layout because its entire development has been captured on video by Crash. I recommend you watch the changelog videos he made at least 2x so you understand how a map gets to be great. I dare to say it's 80% feedback, 20% mapper's own input as soon as A2 is being made.

Thank you for telling me that my maps will never be in the game, thank you!

 

[ExtraCheesyPie]

Thank you for telling me that my maps will never be in the game, thank you!

He didn't say that. You keep taking posts that people make out of context.

 

[MaccyF]

thanks

Thank you for telling me that my maps will never be in the game, thank you!

read it again. He only said that if you keep this attitude they won't.

 

[TMB]

read it again. He only said that if you keep this attitude they won't.

And how its gonna be my attitude if you only said bad things about my map and looks like never one of my maps gonna be in game and now ask yourself, you think that one of your maps will be in the game? Probably no, only maps that work 20 persons on it or a famous person will be in the game

 

[ExtraCheesyPie]

And how its gonna be my attitude if you only said bad things about my map and looks like never one of my maps gonna be in game and now ask yourself, you think that one of your maps will be in the game? Probably no, only maps that work 20 persons on it or a famous person will be in the game

They didn't say only "bad things" about the map, they gave feedback. What are people going to say, "Amazing job, Ethan, keep it up?"

No, they will criticize your work. That's the whole point of the forums, to post work and get criticism on it.

The whole reason those people got "famous" was because they got a reputation for making quality maps. The way you get that is through making great maps. The way you make great maps is by listening to feedback.

 

[Yrr]

I don't understand how you expect to get a map in the game without ever improving a map??

All maps start bad. You can't make a good map without testing.

You make a bad map, find out what's wrong, then fix it. If you don't do these things your maps will be bad forever and you will not improve.

 

[Vel0city]

And how its gonna be my attitude if you only said bad things about my map and looks like never one of my maps gonna be in game and now ask yourself, you think that one of your maps will be in the game? Probably no, only maps that work 20 persons on it or a famous person will be in the game

Ok. Stop. Right now. Just stop.

What I want you to do, before you give any other comment, is to check out this website: http://feedback.tf2maps.net.

This is how mappers get the feedback of their map integrated into their new versions of their map. I want you to look at the maps that have about 30-40 comments, just so you get a good mix of all different types of feedback.

Next, I want to show you a map that I co-created with 2 other people (note: I would do exactly 100% the same if I worked solo): PD_Snowville. We released V1 and got it tested on the TF2maps.net server. We got massive amounts of feedback, and I want you to look trough it, and see if you spot a pattern: http://feedback.tf2maps.net/map/pd_snowville_v1/

People were mainly giving feedback about 2 things. 1: the ambient lighting is too blue which makes player recognition a nightmare, especially if your enemy is from team RED, and 2: huge frame rate issues around mid. Now, instead of leaving it at that and giving up, which is what you seem to do, I got to work on it (and had fun doing it and a great learning experience too). Then we uploaded V2 with the changes. Here's the changelog, and I want you to look at it thoroughly.

Changelog

-Fixed players getting out of the map by riding the sleigh.
-Fixed players getting crushed by said sleigh.
-Fixed players getting stuck on the Pyro deer in front of the sleigh.
-Fixed various clipping related things around the map.
-Fixed a weird reflection issue on a ground material that caused it to reflect like a mirror even though it was dirt.
-Fixed reflections on water.
-(Hopefully) Improved performance on the map, especially around mid.
-Fixed getting stuck on the ice sheets near the shack control point.
-Added a way for explosive jumping classes to get out of the sewers from the drop down zone that connects mid to the side control points.
-Moved health around from almost on the control point to under it in the shack area.
-Added a new upstairs area around mid with a small health pack.
-Removed the big ammo packs around mid, to compensate for that the small ammo packs in the garages are now medium sized.
-Improved environment lighting for improved player visibility.
-The aurora around the map is now on by default, also helping with player visibility.
-Removed the 10 second countdown when a team captured the required amount of presents since there was no way to make that amount go down.
-Made it easier to climb on the side roofs of the mid building (above the main entrances) when coming from the side buildings.
-Huge amounts of prop fading done for improved performance.
-Added missing spectator camera's.
-Added missing control point model on mid.
-Added lots and lots and lots of nodraw textures to lower the file size of the map (although it's still larger than before).
-Changed some materials around.


We then got V2 tested, and again, people provided feedback, which, again, here it is: http://feedback.tf2maps.net/map/pd_snowville_v2/

Notice that not all feedback is criticism. For instance, we have Mr Stevethepocket saying "I really like the dropdowns; vanilla Sawmill could probably benefit from having them". This too is feedback, but the kind where people especially like something on a map. Yes, feedback tends to lead to the criticism side of things, but that's the whole purpose. Negative feedback leads to better polished maps, even though that sounds strange. I can't fix my mistakes if people keep telling me it's a great map instead of providing criticism on the bad areas. And again, people had complaints about bad visibility which I took very seriously (as I should). I don't have feedback for V3 simply because we never tested it as we wanted it to be uploaded before the end of the Workshop Wonderland (which got an extended deadline for maps later on but anyway) but with some help from our good friend Frozen I got the lighting down waaaaay better than I had it before.


This isn't even 1% of what it takes to make a map work. We converted Sawmill which is an already established map layout wise (we did do a total visual overhaul alongside the game mode change), but a completely new map from the ground up is going to take a lot more effort to get it to a point where it plays and looks great. If you don't want to put effort into making your map better with the feedback provided, mapping as a whole probably isn't for you.

Anywho, my two cents.

 

[Crash]

No one makes good maps without play testing and iterating their designs. You are taking feedback too personally, when people are just trying to help you.

 

[TMB]

No one makes good maps without play testing and iterating their designs. You are taking feedback too personally, when people are just trying to help you.

This communty dont help in anything, yesterday i want help with something and everyone ignore me, nice community!

 

[ExtraCheesyPie]

This communty dont help in anything, yesterday i want help with something and everyone ignore me, nice community!

What exactly did you need help with?

 

[TMB]

What exactly did you need help with?

I dont gonna tell you what was the problem but nobody helped me, if the community its just like that people this community its the worst

 

[Zed]

It's feedback about your map. It has absolutely nothing to do with you as a person. If you're getting so easily offended and acting this childish because someone gave you feedback that wasn't "good map," then you're probably too young to be on the internet in the first place.

How can you expect people to help when all you've done is be rude to them?

 

[Crash]

This communty dont help in anything, yesterday i want help with something and everyone ignore me, nice community!

Frankly it sounds like you are trying to take issue with anything you can here because you didn't get the reception you wanted on your map. Everyone here is trying to help you now and all you're doing is getting mad at us.