PLR Snowramp [Deleted]

Status
Not open for further replies.

Crash

func_nerd
aa
Mar 1, 2010
3,316
5,499
I want to get good receptions not bad, its easy for you, your maps everyone loves it and will be in the game

Trust me, I've gotten plenty of negative feedback, and still do. I can link you to a thread on another site where I had people personally insulting me over my map, and that was as recent as Glassworks. You can't expect everyone to love everything you do, especially this early in your mapping career. Learning to handle feedback, positive and negative, is key to developing as a mapper. I spent over 5 years learning to map and just recently got my own maps in the game. Was that time well spent in my opinion? Absolutely.

Not to mention, looking at your post history, the last two questions you've asked have gotten immediate and thorough help. Your attitude saying no one is helpful when you've had people solve numerous problems of yours is pretty ungrateful to them.

It is no one here's responsibility to personally hand you how to solve all of your problems on a silver platter. At the start of this you didn't even want to iterate you map, why should anyone take the time to show you everything that could be improved on?

And the personal attacks on other mappers will stop now.
 

TMB

Banned
Jun 7, 2015
821
323
Trust me, I've gotten plenty of negative feedback, and still do. I can link you to a thread on another site where I had people personally insulting me over my map, and that was as recent as Glassworks. You can't expect everyone to love everything you do, especially this early in your mapping career. Learning to handle feedback, positive and negative, is key to developing as a mapper. I spent over 5 years learning to map and just recently got my own maps in the game. Was that time well spent in my opinion? Absolutely.

Not to mention, looking at your post history, the last two questions you've asked have gotten immediate and thorough help. Your attitude saying no one is helpful when you've had people solve numerous problems of yours is pretty ungrateful to them.

It is no one here's responsibility to personally hand you how to solve all of your problems on a silver platter. At the start of this you didn't even want to iterate you map, why should anyone take the time to show you everything that could be improved on?

And the personal attacks on other mappers will stop now.
And now you pretent ban me... nice... i just make a map and i get banned, cool, whats next, pay for comment?
 

MrReavers

L1: Registered
Dec 5, 2015
8
7
Its easy to say but not so easy to do...
People not willing to do the hard work won't go far in progress. Let me show a fable called "Ant and the Grasshopper". What the lesson I tell you from the fable might be a misinterpretation, but it's a great example on how laziness and unwillingness to try or do anything leads to failure.


"In a field one summer’s day a Grasshopper was hopping about, chirping and singing to its heart’s content. An Ant passed by, bearing along with great toil an ear of corn he was taking to the nest.
“Why not come and chat with me,” said the Grasshopper, “instead of toiling and moiling in that way?”
“I am helping to lay up food for the winter,” said the Ant, “and recommend you to do the same.”
“Why bother about winter?” said the Grasshopper; “we have got plenty of food at present.” But the Ant went on its way and continued its toil. When the winter came the Grasshopper had no food, and found itself dying of hunger, while it saw the ants distributing every day corn and grain from the stores they had collected in the summer. Then the Grasshopper knew"

I know it's not the best example, but notice how the grasshopper didn't get anything from being lazy and not doing stuff. Taking the time to learn what I told you could learn can help you in the future.
 

Crash

func_nerd
aa
Mar 1, 2010
3,316
5,499
If you think you are getting threatened a ban because you "made a map" you are missing the entire point of this conversation. I don't think there is anywhere else this is going to go, so I'd kindly ask everyone to stop with the replies and leave this thread to be on topic regarding the map. If TMB doesn't wish to take your advice, leave it at that.

I'm leaving your thread unlocked for the time being, TMB, you can do with it whatever you wish.
 

TMB

Banned
Jun 7, 2015
821
323
If you think you are getting threatened a ban because you "made a map" you are missing the entire point of this conversation. I don't think there is anywhere else this is going to go, so I'd kindly ask everyone to stop with the replies and leave this thread to be on topic regarding the map. If TMB doesn't wish to take your advice, leave it at that.

I'm leaving your thread unlocked for the time being, TMB, you can do with it whatever you wish.
Ok, last time i make a map.
 

YM

LVL100 YM
aa
Dec 5, 2007
7,135
6,056
Since my question goes unanswered I guess we'll never know if TMB would have listened to a 'Hammer professional'
 

Bogdy

L4: Comfortable Member
Aug 13, 2014
187
208

Pawlakov

Deliberately incoherent
aa
Jun 1, 2013
189
41
I'd kindly ask everyone to stop with the replies and leave this thread
I know i shouldn't and some people may consider this as offensive (I apologize in advance) but I have to say: "thank you"! Thanks this tread I literally lmao. I should print this whole page, put it into a frame and hang on the wall. Can we nomiante this to the "Thread of the year 2015" award? I love this community.
 

Vel0city

func_fish
aa
Dec 6, 2014
1,947
1,589
Feedback time.

I took the liberty to run around the map and took some screenshots along the way.

First of all, it looks like you forgot to pack any custom material/model into the bsp, so any model or material that shows up fine for you is actually displaying either as an error sign or a purple/black checkerboard texture on our end since we don't have the models and/or materials. You can see that in the image below.
8A29D307DB01AFC5C3F9C224C0A20E4FD81A661F



Now that that's out of the way, lets go over gameplay.

6B45C57E24A31FE4CC5A1BC8054C90DC5DB0075E

First the spawn. Coming out of the respawn room I'm faced with this wall. Usually with this kind of spawn room design with the two exits facing each other there's a window here to the outside world that can only be viewed out of from the inside. Look at Thunder Mountain's first BLU spawn, or Cactus Canyon for example. This is so players see where their objective is. Another thing that would help is arrows. You can never have enough of them.

BA9647790E95841BC6C35F5CD7F7E82D867B293A

Then there's this. The carts are up there yet there's no way up there other than to walk all the way around the giant wall in the middle. Even something as simple as a staircase would help massively in this case. And actually I would suggest a building over the middle and lower ground to the spawn (not a spawn exit), something like Badwater's drop under the building between 2nd and 3d point) to walk into. It gives more hight variation.

16C7E0F8D7535581691CAC9CE41FB45F191F1E66

This Sniper balcony gives the Sniper a view over basically the entire map. Don't do that. A Sniper should not see the entirety of the map from one point.

27B25C73E7CFB9C0CF96A39BD4B0CBDDD2B61336

The finale on both sides is a room with just one entrance/exit meaning a group of Engineers can sit in here Rancho Relaxo-ing all day while their sentry guns do the work meaning the round may very well never end. A room should just about always have at least 2 ways in and out of it. Try playing with the area just above the finale (where the carts initially are) with a connector of some sort.

85828004AD6EDD33B5F30A3FC1C3F655087BDFF1

This area has a thing I like and a thing that's generally not a good thing. The thing I like are the vents. Just a nice way around. The thing that isn't good is the health/ammo placement, which is just one each on each side. This means that one team gets access to a full health pack faster while another gets ammo faster, which is a pretty big imbalance (I'd take health over ammo any day) If you have a symmetrical map you should also make the health/ammo placement symmetrical.

7AD2E0E0D47ABDEF5942E8C5C54853AF0FBAD395

I like the spawn room detailing! I do feel though that that steel bit that sticks out is a bit random. See what you can do with it, detailing wise.

D54C3289D6B67E5CC5772A6C2855DDE3776FEC1D

Try to avoid sudden texture shifts from brush to brush. It looks weird and unnatural. Usually this seam is covered up with a support beam or something similar.

0D80BDEA3D29B8E50DC0664C83B4AF6CB55F78C2

Don't put the bombs so close to each other at the start. It makes for a very narrow and spam heavy room with just 1 way out for each team. Instead, look at how a map like Hightower has the bombs separated (although Hightower is considered a pretty DM-only map Snowramp's layout is very similar to Hightower so that's why I'm comparing them to each other).

1D23625B4EF9E0DD39A3B10BDE5A4DC36CF41D4F

Again, a Sniper can snipe from his spawn to the other spawn. The wall in the middle kinda helps, but not enough. I suggest making a building in the middle instead of that wall where the carts also run trough with some upper areas, again, to have more hight variation and block this sight line.

AF5FAF0612ABD6B14332A22E7D5024F8D83A082E

This is where I'd put that building I mentioned above.

17F661C29B1D5C02023D47B6A04F13DD2558549E

Visible nodraw in BLU's spawn. RED's spawn doesn't have this.

3A940A4D27676F15987D622F9EFED7B3719A284B

Rotate the texture on that wooden beam by 90 degrees so it actually looks like a beam.

7AEA49DBF922022EC79CF4C81EF87D19BE033B4D

It's almost impossible to notice that this is an off-limits area due to the chickenwire basically becoming invisible at range. Use more different materials or detailing to make clear that this is not accessible.

E342F134F525B1FDEF70599A42902AB49F05ED5C

This bit of wooden floor at the bottom feels random. I'd make it all ground. Also, us mappers generally use two different overlays for both health and ammo instead of just one.

7CBC5BF02AD7F2CC75B51BA33ED6060D48EA1831

Finally, we come to this drop down. If you walk from the top end to finale you're guaranteed to take fall damage, even without jumping. This is usually a sign of overscaling which means things are too high up. Either make the bottom bit of the map go up or the top bit go down.


End of feedback.
 

TMB

Banned
Jun 7, 2015
821
323
Feedback time.

I took the liberty to run around the map and took some screenshots along the way.

First of all, it looks like you forgot to pack any custom material/model into the bsp, so any model or material that shows up fine for you is actually displaying either as an error sign or a purple/black checkerboard texture on our end since we don't have the models and/or materials. You can see that in the image below.
8A29D307DB01AFC5C3F9C224C0A20E4FD81A661F



Now that that's out of the way, lets go over gameplay.

6B45C57E24A31FE4CC5A1BC8054C90DC5DB0075E

First the spawn. Coming out of the respawn room I'm faced with this wall. Usually with this kind of spawn room design with the two exits facing each other there's a window here to the outside world that can only be viewed out of from the inside. Look at Thunder Mountain's first BLU spawn, or Cactus Canyon for example. This is so players see where their objective is. Another thing that would help is arrows. You can never have enough of them.

BA9647790E95841BC6C35F5CD7F7E82D867B293A

Then there's this. The carts are up there yet there's no way up there other than to walk all the way around the giant wall in the middle. Even something as simple as a staircase would help massively in this case. And actually I would suggest a building over the middle and lower ground to the spawn (not a spawn exit), something like Badwater's drop under the building between 2nd and 3d point) to walk into. It gives more hight variation.

16C7E0F8D7535581691CAC9CE41FB45F191F1E66

This Sniper balcony gives the Sniper a view over basically the entire map. Don't do that. A Sniper should not see the entirety of the map from one point.

27B25C73E7CFB9C0CF96A39BD4B0CBDDD2B61336

The finale on both sides is a room with just one entrance/exit meaning a group of Engineers can sit in here Rancho Relaxo-ing all day while their sentry guns do the work meaning the round may very well never end. A room should just about always have at least 2 ways in and out of it. Try playing with the area just above the finale (where the carts initially are) with a connector of some sort.

85828004AD6EDD33B5F30A3FC1C3F655087BDFF1

This area has a thing I like and a thing that's generally not a good thing. The thing I like are the vents. Just a nice way around. The thing that isn't good is the health/ammo placement, which is just one each on each side. This means that one team gets access to a full health pack faster while another gets ammo faster, which is a pretty big imbalance (I'd take health over ammo any day) If you have a symmetrical map you should also make the health/ammo placement symmetrical.

7AD2E0E0D47ABDEF5942E8C5C54853AF0FBAD395

I like the spawn room detailing! I do feel though that that steel bit that sticks out is a bit random. See what you can do with it, detailing wise.

D54C3289D6B67E5CC5772A6C2855DDE3776FEC1D

Try to avoid sudden texture shifts from brush to brush. It looks weird and unnatural. Usually this seam is covered up with a support beam or something similar.

0D80BDEA3D29B8E50DC0664C83B4AF6CB55F78C2

Don't put the bombs so close to each other at the start. It makes for a very narrow and spam heavy room with just 1 way out for each team. Instead, look at how a map like Hightower has the bombs separated (although Hightower is considered a pretty DM-only map Snowramp's layout is very similar to Hightower so that's why I'm comparing them to each other).

1D23625B4EF9E0DD39A3B10BDE5A4DC36CF41D4F

Again, a Sniper can snipe from his spawn to the other spawn. The wall in the middle kinda helps, but not enough. I suggest making a building in the middle instead of that wall where the carts also run trough with some upper areas, again, to have more hight variation and block this sight line.

AF5FAF0612ABD6B14332A22E7D5024F8D83A082E

This is where I'd put that building I mentioned above.

17F661C29B1D5C02023D47B6A04F13DD2558549E

Visible nodraw in BLU's spawn. RED's spawn doesn't have this.

3A940A4D27676F15987D622F9EFED7B3719A284B

Rotate the texture on that wooden beam by 90 degrees so it actually looks like a beam.

7AEA49DBF922022EC79CF4C81EF87D19BE033B4D

It's almost impossible to notice that this is an off-limits area due to the chickenwire basically becoming invisible at range. Use more different materials or detailing to make clear that this is not accessible.

E342F134F525B1FDEF70599A42902AB49F05ED5C

This bit of wooden floor at the bottom feels random. I'd make it all ground. Also, us mappers generally use two different overlays for both health and ammo instead of just one.

7CBC5BF02AD7F2CC75B51BA33ED6060D48EA1831

Finally, we come to this drop down. If you walk from the top end to finale you're guaranteed to take fall damage, even without jumping. This is usually a sign of overscaling which means things are too high up. Either make the bottom bit of the map go up or the top bit go down.


End of feedback.
.... Someone that make the things in the right way, i think i can fix that but im still angry with the bad comments....
 

Vel0city

func_fish
aa
Dec 6, 2014
1,947
1,589
.... Someone that make the things in the right way, i think i can fix that but im still angry with the bad comments....
Again, I'm not going to go into the discussion here, but none of the comments were bad. None. They all provided almost exactly the same feedback I gave you, both on the attitude to mapping and the map itself. I just included pictures.
 

TMB

Banned
Jun 7, 2015
821
323
To everyone:

I'm sorry for what i did yesterday, i get mad with all of you when you was trying to help me, im not gonna do this anymore, so thank you for trying to help me and i'm really sorry.
 

Bunbun

aa
May 18, 2014
401
782
However, remember that the community is always open in helping you with your map. Don't quit mapping or feel down just because of this, you're new to the community, so it's just part of understanding and learning about how map-making and criticism works, screwing up is just part of the process.

So just remember the lesson and continue making your map! I'd really like to see how this turns out! ;)
 
Last edited:

ExtraCheesyPie

L420: High Member
Jan 29, 2015
484
151
Hey, if you aren't gonna work on it, I'd be up to adopting it.

But if you are going to keep at it, good on you :)
 

TMB

Banned
Jun 7, 2015
821
323
This download has been removed and is no longer available for download.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.