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  1. TMB

    TMB Banned

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  2. Moonrat

    aa Moonrat The end of an era

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    This map is pretty flat. Not only that, but it's boring, and just a long sightline from spawn to spawn. The cart's are inside of a small building which can be spammed to death, and the capture area for the cart is also easily spammable. No flanks, no other pathways, just a boring sightline with some spammable buildings.

    I'm sorry if that's a bit mean, but you might want to consider doing something with the map to make it more interesting. take a look at these PLR maps, and see what they do within them. Nothing will make your maps better than looking at other maps. I can say that from experience.

    A showcase example: http://tf2maps.net/resources/frostfell.341/
    A good finished PLR map: http://tf2maps.net/resources/plr_sidetracked.733/
    One PLR created for a contest: http://tf2maps.net/resources/animus.601/
    And one PLR made by our resident entity lord: http://tf2maps.net/resources/split.737/

    Take a look at the layouts of those maps, and notice what they do right. Put it into your own map, and you'll be halfway to making a great map.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. TMB

    TMB Banned

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    thank you, my first plr that i make and you only said bad things about it, i look a lot of plr and winter maps meanwhile i was making this map, this map take me a long of time and you gonna tell me that everything is wrong, thank you!
     
  4. Muddy

    Server Staff Muddy Muddy

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    I understand that you feel defensive about your work, but please understand that Moonrat isn't slagging it off. He's giving you pointers to help you improve, so that what mistakes you made this time you don't make next time (both for later versions of this map and for your next projects). Take on board what he and everyone else has told you so you can someday make maps as great as Badlands!

    Plus, you're not gonna get a whole lot from simple "this map is good" comments... that doesn't tell you what to do for your next version!

    My point is, try not to take it all personally.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  5. TMB

    TMB Banned

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    I dont gonna update the map, the map is finished to me, so this is very offensive to me and i learn a thing with that comment, my maps will never be great so i think im gonna stop making maps forever.
     
  6. MaccyF

    aa MaccyF Notoriously Unreliable

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    No-one starts out good, don't give up, and certainly don't expect your map to be perfect first time. (Thats a map by Crash, of WubWubWub, TrainSawLazer and Glassworks fame)

    That's what these forums are for; improving. This isn't terrible by any means, it's just not interesting to play. Keep taking feedback on board, adding to your layouts, experimenting with hammer and little by little you're gunna get better.

    It's a long road, but a rewarding one.
     
  7. TMB

    TMB Banned

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    Always accept the maps of the sames persons, why valve gonna take one of our maps? I think we work for nothing, now im making a new map but i dont think im gonna get anything.
     
  8. Anreol

    Anreol L6: Sharp Member

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    Study Valve maps, look how they work, the layout, the gameplay, etc.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. TMB

    TMB Banned

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    I see that always
     
  10. Muddy

    Server Staff Muddy Muddy

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    Yeah, see, your maps will never be good if you don't take on-board what other people are saying, and more to the point, if you let yourself be discouraged by negative comments. Again, if all anyone says is "this is great, good job!" you're not gonna get anywhere. Mapping, as with all things, takes practice, and the only way you're gonna make something good is by making a hundred bad things and learning from your mistakes.

    Also, this:
    This tells me you're only interested in mapping because you want Valve to buy one of your maps. If that's all you want, you're gonna have a reeeeally bad time. Instead, do it cos you enjoy it, and you'll be among the greats in no time...
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  11. TMB

    TMB Banned

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    What do you expect when you make a map? That its gonna be in the game and i dont see why i have to update the map, for me the map is perfect and im tired that i spent a lot of hours in maps to dont get anything, you are happy when you spent a lot of hours on something and you dont get anything?
     
  12. Corvatile

    aa Corvatile exercise cawtion

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    A finished map is its own reward. The point of a mapping is to make finished maps that are fun to play. What does it matter whether or not Valve buys them? A finished, high-quality map is something to be proud of.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Creative Creative x 1
  13. MaccyF

    aa MaccyF Notoriously Unreliable

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    when i make a map i expect it to be bad and need a LOT of refinement before it's fun. I certainly don't expect it to get bought by Valve. If you don't want to update this map then fine, that's your choice, but understand that it requires a lot practice to get good at anything.

    Also say you spent 10-20 hours on this map, people like phi have spent literally hundreds of hours on maps like sunshine and only just semi sort of got into the game.
     
  14. TMB

    TMB Banned

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    when i said that i spent 10-20 hours on the map?
     
  15. MaccyF

    aa MaccyF Notoriously Unreliable

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    that was just a guess/ estimate
     
  16. TMB

    TMB Banned

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    was more time that 10-20 hours
     
  17. YM

    aa YM LVL100 YM

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    Whoa whooaa whoooaaa
    Sorry to go a little off topic here but Crash is the resident entity lord? Please, credit where credit is due! A Boojum Snark is our resident entity lord. We are all in the shadow of Boojum's entity wizardry.
    Anyway, back to the topic at hand:
    I'd guess most people get into mapping as a hobby TMB and take reward from doing something fun and seeing other people enjoy their work
    I personally started because I wanted to do game design for a living. Now I do, but it took me years of work to get to this point. Yeah I got an early break with hoodoo but by the time Valve asked to buy hoodoo I'd already spent over two years working on source level design.

    But let me say this: I did not ever expect it. I had no idea Valve even bought maps from the community until after hoodoo was already nearing completion.

    Furthermore, if your goal is to get a map bought, then holy crap your attitude is wrong. Valve takes the maps that are popular, the popular maps became popular because they were adapted after feedback.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  18. ExtraCheesyPie

    ExtraCheesyPie L7: Fancy Member

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    Like I said, I get to make the stupid levels I always wanted to make for TF2, hopefully improve a map enough that it gets compliments (and feel validated I guess, lol). I don't exactly know how to make levels "fast" so I just relax, play some music, and work on part of the map. I just use it to chill, and I get to play wacky gimmick levels or well made custom maps. Even if they're not well made, at least I get some satisfaction from giving useful feedback. Hell, dare I say I find the experience "fun"?

    You have to take the feedback you get into account. People have said that the map is "boring, flat, and too open". That does not mean it cannot be improved upon. Your map does have some elements of height of course, but the rest of the map is entirely lacking. Adding some building that the cart moves through, for instance, would help split up some of that openness, and if you add a platform either inside of it or around the outside, it could create some height variation for interesting gameplay.

    For instance, imagine what happens in Hightower (although it's not exactly a "good" plr map, it's more like a deathmatch map.). There are staircases that you can climb, platforms that you can shoot the cart from, a little hill in the middle of the map to split up sightlines- all of these make the map not so "boring", because then it makes subtle gameplay changes that although, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't seem like it makes such a difference, but it makes things a blast to play on.

    Even adding little mounds of snow or dirt, maybe a few sheds or scattered boxes in strategic positions could make it seem more interesting and less flat. Not saying that you should toss crates every 10 feet, but thats the point of the creative process- you have to interpret the bizarre complaints and suggestions that you get in order to determine what needs fixing, and you'll need to make those changes with care.

    It's not for everybody. I'm not sure if it's for me. But in any case, you will have to remain respectful towards other people.
     
  19. MaccyF

    aa MaccyF Notoriously Unreliable

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    mappers don't get paid very much anyway; cosmetics is where the money is
     
  20. TMB

    TMB Banned

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    i dont wanna money i just want that one of my maps gets in the game
     
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