Which community update would you like to see besides frontline?

[Werewolf]

The Blandlands Update

I thought it was the BaldNads update?

thats an entirely different, 18+ update

No no no, they are the same, pyrovision-esk update. All the new maps are bland and boring until you put on the glasses.

Then everything becomes..... 18+

 

[seth]

lmao. no

I agree that TC and SD are underserved, but Medieval mode is just objectively bad. It'd be best if we all just forgot it ever happened.

Just because it's not a serious mode doesn't mean it's objectively bad. If you don't play spy, huntsman sniper, or demoknight then yeah you probably won't like it, but it's not meant to taken super seriously either way.

 

[Another Bad Pun]

I think it would be great if custom gamemodes were shipped along with frontline. wink wink
That being said, gamemodes like like Medieval mode and SD are intented for the more casual crowd, which is the majority of the TF2 community. I don't know why TF2M fails to understand this again and again. Valve will always balance out an update with traditionally well playing maps and potential nonsense/maps that are easier to digest for players.

As of now I think there are 4-5 community updates in the works? I'm pretty sure Valve has been silent on all of them. I haven't seen much of the Mayann theme, so Frontline seems to have the most chance of going official as far as I know.

Later on, I would love to see some more theme packs created - not just community updates. There's always going to be some new thing that sweeps us off our feet anyway.

 

[Yrr]

Just because it's not a serious mode doesn't mean it's objectively bad. If you don't play spy, huntsman sniper, or demoknight then yeah you probably won't like it, but it's not meant to taken super seriously either way.

medieval is objectively bad because theres no class balance and it relies on the buggiest, least functional method of combat in the game.

 

[Jethro]

medieval is objectively bad because theres no class balance and it relies on the buggiest, least functional method of combat in the game.

There can still be a "medieval" update without necessarily focusing on "medieval" the mode.

 

[Yrr]

There can still be a "medieval" update without necessarily focusing on "medieval" the mode.

this comment was about the medieval gamemode, scrolling up a little will reveal that.

 

[seth]

medieval is objectively bad because theres no class balance and it relies on the buggiest, least functional method of combat in the game.

I think that's part of the fun. You can't talk about class balance when also talking about restricting everyone to only using melee weapons. It just doesn't matter in the mode. Demoknight is geared towards melee combat so it will most often be picked, but there's nothing preventing you from playing GRU heavy and enjoying it. Plus, no one is going to yell at you for playing GRU heavy in medieval because no one gives a fuck. That's part of the beauty.

I'd agree with ABP that a pretty big group of the regulars here really seems to not get the concept that some people can enjoy playing a mode that would never be played competitively. Yeah, demoknight and sniper are going to have the upper hand. So the fuck what? Play them. Or don't play them. No one cares. The maps look cool and the game mode caters to them.

 

[UKCS-Alias]

You can't talk about class balance when also talking about restricting everyone to only using melee weapons.

And a bow, crossbow, shields, boots and all sorts of support methods that some classes completely miss.

Plus, no one is going to yell at you for playing GRU heavy in medieval because no one gives a fuck. That's part of the beauty.

But thats also why it would be a poor thing. We have seen more often that updates which dont care about balance only result in complaints. Especialy since valve somewhat forces you to play those modes because of the update. So on that a proper balance is required.

The medieval artstyle is the only exception as it can still work for regular maps (rottenburg shows how well robots go with medieval)

I'd agree with ABP that a pretty big group of the regulars here really seems to not get the concept that some people can enjoy playing a mode that would never be played competitively.

I do fully understand some like it, but an update aiming at only 10% of the players is generaly what is disliked by valve. Its why MvM already is underwhelming. But MvM is at least a gamemode where paying money is a more common thing to do (allowing valve to at least get their money back if it failed) and on that should simply get a better chance.

If they are going to do a medieval mode update. Then that should mainly focus on maps using the regular combat. And idealy not enforce players to even play the melee oriented map (ofcourse, still promoting that option as alternative). Without it i would be one of those complaining people.

I made skullcove, a map that for any serious mvm'ing would be a poor choise (wave 666 modes are just spamfests). But within an mvm or halloween update it would be a lesser hazard and justify a 'joke' map.

 

[Werewolf]

I'd agree with ABP that a pretty big group of the regulars here really seems to not get the concept that some people can enjoy playing a mode that would never be played competitively. Yeah, demoknight and sniper are going to have the upper hand. So the fuck what? Play them. Or don't play them. No one cares. The maps look cool and the game mode caters to them.

This is what I was alluding to in my post. There are people who enjoy those mode despite how bad they may be. The point is, those neglected modes need more than one map, and Valve needs to not rely on communities like this to 'provide' extra maps to play on. They should have added more than 1 map each.

 

[seth]

And a bow, crossbow, shields, boots and all sorts of support methods that some classes completely miss.

But thats also why it would be a poor thing. We have seen more often that updates which dont care about balance only result in complaints. Especialy since valve somewhat forces you to play those modes because of the update. So on that a proper balance is required.

The medieval artstyle is the only exception as it can still work for regular maps (rottenburg shows how well robots go with medieval)

I do fully understand some like it, but an update aiming at only 10% of the players is generaly what is disliked by valve. Its why MvM already is underwhelming. But MvM is at least a gamemode where paying money is a more common thing to do (allowing valve to at least get their money back if it failed) and on that should simply get a better chance.

If they are going to do a medieval mode update. Then that should mainly focus on maps using the regular combat. And idealy not enforce players to even play the melee oriented map (ofcourse, still promoting that option as alternative). Without it i would be one of those complaining people.

I made skullcove, a map that for any serious mvm'ing would be a poor choise (wave 666 modes are just spamfests). But within an mvm or halloween update it would be a lesser hazard and justify a 'joke' map.

I'm so confused. Valve is forcing you to play less serious modes with recent updates? That's absurd. They have made casual TF2 play all but impossible. Even quickplay forces you to queue up with other players and wait 5 minutes to get into a match. The only way to get away from competitive TF2 is community servers, which are incredibly hard to sift through to find ones you like.

10% of players?? You think only 10% of players play TF2 casually? Are you out of your mind? It's the complete opposite. Most people couldn't give a fuck about competitive TF2. They go to CS:GO and Dota for that.

 

[UKCS-Alias]

I'm so confused. Valve is forcing you to play less serious modes with recent updates?

There have been cases in where certain events require you to play certain maps. Especialy contracts did this. I can still remember the hate to snipers on suijin, in such state i dont like the map at all. Can i blame suijin? not realy, but the enforcing to overplay that map realy didnt work out well to me. Then with invasion and halloween they reduced that a bit, but for halloween it was still map tied. At least the last update just gave you crates regardless of the map you were on and doesnt care about any contract
Even mvm had the exception that it only mattered on how much you paid for tickets. If you didnt buy alot, you are quickly done.

These are still recent enough to be considered.

 

[seth]

There have been cases in where certain events require you to play certain maps. Especialy contracts did this. I can still remember the hate to snipers on suijin, in such state i dont like the map at all. Can i blame suijin? not realy, but the enforcing to overplay that map realy didnt work out well to me. Then with invasion and halloween they reduced that a bit, but for halloween it was still map tied. At least the last update just gave you crates regardless of the map you were on and doesnt care about any contract
Even mvm had the exception that it only mattered on how much you paid for tickets. If you didnt buy alot, you are quickly done.

These are still recent enough to be considered.

What does that have to do with making a map for medieval mode? Isn't that what we were talking about at the beginning? Muddy was saying medieval mode doesn't deserve any maps and all I was saying is that I think it is just as deserving as TC or SD. You can't call something objectively bad when it doesn't seek to be objectively good.

 

[Muddy]

You can't call something objectively bad when it doesn't seek to be objectively good.

wat. That makes no sense. Because it's not trying to be good, that means it's void of any criticism?

 

[seth]

wat. That makes no sense. Because it's not trying to be good, that means it's void of any criticism?

Objectively good. Aren't you talking about the gameplay? It's not meant to play competitively.

 

[Yrr]

I propose a new gamemode where the only allowed weapon is the Rocket Jumper

You can play any class but of course you can't equip the Rocket Jumper as the others

It's not meant to play competitively so you aren't allowed to call this a bad idea.

 

[Werewolf]

I think the problem is we are treating the medieval game mode the same as other gamemodes like KotH, when they aren't made for the same audience.

Think of it this way. You get Hollywood blockbuster movies designed to appeal to as many people as possible, aka casual movie goers.
Then you have your 'high-brow', arty or indie films not made for mass appeal. These are our 'competitive' equivalents.
And then you have guilty pleasures like 'Team America'. Low brow, stupid, but funny. Also not for mass appeal, just the few people who like that sort of thing. Medieval mode is TF2's 'Team America'

I get the impression that Muddy is trying to compare Medieval mode to say 'Citizen Kane'. Yes, objectively, when you compare medieval mode to pretty much everything else in the game, is soo fucking shit. But it wasn't trying to be the next 'Citizen Kane', it was trying to be the next 'Team America.' They are in different leagues, made for different people.

Now my original point that sparked all this, was simply stating the principle that if Valve are going to add any new gamemode, they have to give us more than one map to play on. No matter what your taste in movie or gamemode, playing the same map or watching the same movie over and over gets tiring.

 

[Yrr]

the thing is some people will find anything fun or rather anything has a group of people that will find it fun

so why not put the effort in to make it good



in the movies analogy Medieval is The Room and Mannpower is Birdemic

 

[Muddy]

I'm not comparing Medieval mode to another gamemode, I'm comparing Medieval mode to TF2's gameplay as a whole (or more specifically, Gravel Pit). Medieval mode strips classes of most of their weapons, making most classes completely useless (engineer!), and it relies heavily on a gameplay feature that is utterly broken (melee combat)

I'm not saying people shouldn't enjoy it - and hell, I'm glad DeGroot Keep exists because the medieval-theme content is pretty darn cool, and some of the weapons are neato too - but it's nothing more than a silly, gimmicky gamemode that is basically just a munted version of Gravel Pit. You can't compare that to Territorial Control and Special Delivery, which are established gamemodes. (If we're making film analogies, it's more like comparing Citizen Kane to a 5-minute remake of said film by a bunch of first-year media students.)

Anyway this isn't what the thread was initially about, so in an attempt to get this thread back on topic I'll make this my last post here.

 

[seth]

You guys are so needlessly passive-aggressive. It's like instead of trying to convince the other person of your argument, you'd rather try to make them feel as stupid as possible by making exaggerated examples of their side.

 

[UKCS-Alias]

What does that have to do with making a map for medieval mode?

That is about valve 'forcing' me to play a medieval mode. In old contracts you would get an x amount of them, and those would give you the rewards, but in those you were forced to play a certain mode. And for example i was unlucky to face suijin alot (which of the 4 maps i dislike most).

That its part of an update and you arent required to play it is fine (and this is why i still believe mvm does it well as there by paying you already state you wanted to play mvm + its clear which modes are required).