Lion a7

guardian mvm hybrid

  1. seth

    aa seth

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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2021
  2. seth

    aa seth

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    a2

    Download is now a zip to separate the bsp from the nav/pop file for bot updates without recompile.

    layout
    • moved 2nd gate back by dividing wall
    • opened window in connector room
    • added hp/ammo cubby to other side of 1st cp
    • added gate to 1st bot spawn area
    • simplified bomb pit stairs for blockbulleting
    • tightened bomb pit arena to increase defensible positions
    bots
    • 1st cp cap stun now excludes giant bots
    • fixed meds not healing in wave 4

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    Last edited: Jan 2, 2021
  3. seth

    aa seth

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    Testing @Void 's Dusk till Dawn skyboxes. Tweaked light_env settings for sky_wildfire_01, sky_yuki_01, sky_fever_01, and sky_night_02. Some of the map has already been laid out to accentuate the low-angle light of sky_twilight_02 (the wall of windows at the forward upgrade station) and I wanted another to match it, but I ended up testing all of them because it's fun. Environment settings are easily the highest bang-for-buck detail changes to make.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2020
  4. seth

    aa seth

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    a3

    Big thanks to @PigPig and @FlipFTW for a lot of layout and mission help + hours of testing.

    detail
    • added 3d sky
    • switched to sky_fever_01 env settings
    • bot spawn is now a port/dock
    • displaced ground level
    layout
    • extended playable area further in front of 1st cp for more holding options
    • moved forward gate in front of 1st cp
    • opened front dividing wall buildings for faster rotations
    • removed clip on lower front dividing wall building
    • fixed forward gate staying open if currently opening on wave finish
    • fixed cp capture warning sound persisting through waves
    • hp/ammo around bomb pit moved to be more central
    • bomb pit is now a cp
      • bot buffs annoying to play against
    • main upgrade station always open
    • red spawn now has shutters
    • fixed spawn room building bugs
    bots
    • added advanced mission (courtesy of FlipFTW, edited by me)
    • normal mission:
      • spy mission decreased from two to one
      • wave 1 scouts reduced dmg, move speed
      • wave 1 bowmen reduced skill
      • wave 2 split heavies between shotgun/minigun
      • added 5th wave (el jefe + jumping scout support)
    • increased bot stun time to match mannhattan (14->22s)
    • cp capture progress can now be blocked
    • fixed bots ignoring func_nav_avoids (cannot enter connector areas or patio in front of spawn)

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    Last edited: Jan 2, 2021
  5. seth

    aa seth

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    a4

    detail
    • added detail geometry to u-turn at dividing wall
    layout
    • marked capture zones
    • reconfigured red spawn to accommodate two upgrade stations
    bots
    • fixed some bots skipping first point and breaking on 2nd point
    • fixed cap alarm persisting if bots are killed while blocking capture
    • fixed forward gate staying open in certain conditions
    • fixed bots getting stuck in blocker in spawn
    • normal mission:
      • wave 2 fixed shotgun heavies ignoring point
      • wave 4 fixed support bots not showing in wave status
      • wave 4 fixed giant medics only healing giant soldier

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  6. seth

    aa seth

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    a5

    Added new dynamic element: the MoM (Money or Medicine). The item spawns on the catwalk near the 1st cp and enables on wave start. When carrying the item, it acts as a level 1 dispenser with an effective radius of 256hu. Once dropped, it becomes an automatic money collector with an effective radius of 320hu. If the intel is dropped when the 1st cp is capped, it is teleported to a new location behind the 2nd cp. If it is being carried when the 1st cp is capped, it will not be teleported. The pickup radius is set to 64hu with a pickup delay of 3s to reduce unwanted pickups when maneuvering or attempting to drop the item near your partner.

    detail
    • 3d sky tweaks
    bots
    • normal mission is now called intermediate
    • finished naming advanced mission bots
    • fixed missing projectile model
    • fixed spies getting into red spawn
    • fixed advanced mission bots not ignoring flag

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    Last edited: Jan 5, 2021
  7. Jakapoa

    Jakapoa L1: Registered

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    Ran it through on potatoes, here's my observations:

    Map
    • You need a proper mvm bomb hidden somewhere on the map, or the hud will break. Every bot will need Attributes IgnoreFlag so they don't try to grab the bomb.
      [​IMG]
    • All doors on the map (sans red spawn doors) can be opened by both players and robots. It's nice for spies and snipers moving around, but sentrybusters and other mistagged bots will still try to path through them.
      [​IMG]
    • Extend your spawn protection out a bit farther. A spawn isn't covered, and it's reachable by projectiles. Also clip off the water, as bots can fall off into there outside of spawn.
      [​IMG]
    • Bots are still spawning from the first spawn and the gate spawn after the gate captures. While it could be okay, it really slows the missions down when non-support robots take the first spawn instead of the gate. Mainly due to both spawns using the same spawnpoints.
      [​IMG]
    • Giants will walk towards the final point during the gate stun. Typically they're supposed to remain active, but stay at the previous point until the gate stun ends. It gives players a chance to breathe, if say a hoard of super scouts cap the point and then immediately run to the second point.
    • Players can block captures.
    • Sentrybusters are not filtered out from capturing gates.
    • A bit weird with how the robot spawn is set up. It never feels practical to go fully into the spawn (where the door is), since that's basically suicide. And there's almost no point to run into the spawn from the capture point either, since it's easier to hold from the other side. Maybe this area could be tweaked a bit to give the capture point more room?
    • Open the door of the capture point faster (remove the 6 sec delay), or speed it up. Bots will stack up behind the door.
    MoM
    Man, I really, really like the concept behind MoM. The ammo regen frees players from always having an engineer, and the money collection reduces the need for a scout. Trying to balance it between those two modes and trying to act as a dispenser to my buddy was fun. It definitely adds more variety to the map, and I genuinely like it.
    That's on paper however. In practice:
    • When worn, it's basically infinite ammo for the player wearing it. Dispensers are balanced out by being static buildings that are easily destroyed, meaning placement is important. Strapping it to the back of the player negates both of these. It's exacerbated when you have an engineer dispenser as well as MoM, giving both players dispensers (or in the engie's case, free metal). I know there's no other way to give easy ammo regen. Maybe flip the two MoM effects so that when it's worn you collect money, and when placed it gives health and ammo. That puts it more in line with what you're trying to replace, without being a bit too powerful (actually that might not work fully as MoM can't pick up money already on the ground).
    • MoM doesn't properly reset between rounds. When a round ends with a player carrying MoM, the client still registers the player as holding the intel. While the effects are properly removed, the server can't process what's happening. So when the next round starts, the player that was holding MoM can't pick up MoM on round start, since they technically never dropped it. Then, when they do drop the intel, MoM will be instantly warped to their location, regardless if another player has it active. It's an odd bug due to the flag only getting half reset. Two possible fixes are to add ForceDrop when you ForceReset it, or to quickly flash a red respawn room over the map on wave completion to force the MoM to be dropped.
    Either way, MoM is fun.

    Missions
    General:
    • It looks like a bunch of the robots in the template file are just direct copy paste from the valve templates, names included. While that's fine, you also include the valve template files in with your intermediate mission. So now there's two versions of the same bot trying to be loaded, and I'm actually surprised TF2 didn't crash/throw a fit. The flare pyros in wave 1 (one such bot effected) were running the valve version, but had the lion tags, so TF2 was probably playing fast and loose with what info it took from either template. You should really fix this because the source engine is fickle with what it wants to do, and could potentially break in random/odd ways.
    • I don't think the nav_prefer_gate1_flank tag is actually doing anything, or required more so. Everything is really running off of the bot_gatebot tag, and the nav_prerequs in the spawn. Even stripping it off the bots makes them function normally.
    • Also feels weird that bosses are spawning in the spawn that's closer to players, or really just how scattered the spawns are. Though it doesn't really matter in the end because they all funnel down into the same chokepoint.

    Intermediate:
    • No sentrybusters are in the mission.
    • I will be blunt and say that the mission is very hard, at some points possibly harder than the advanced. Even while tryharding we were constantly pushed back to the hatch.

    Wave 2
    • wave02_c is waiting for wave02_c to end, which stops the wave prematurely (modded server automatically fixed this).
    Demo File #1 (First Impressions)
    Demo File #2 (Heavy & Engie Tryharding)


    Advanced:

    • You have RandomSpawn in every bot, but it doesn't do anything since you don't ever define more than one spawn.
    • I see bot_trashmob and bot_sentrybuster in some bots, which don't do anything because there's no filters in the map for them.
    • Support gatebot spam is never fun to deal with.
    • Robots with The Battalion's Backup only have standard rage durration, and often run out by the time they leave spawn.

    Wave 6
    • Shotguns should come faster, but they were also comming from the farthest spawn possible after gate capture.
    Wave 7
    • 4 giant armored crit scouts at once while the boss is still alive might be just a bit too much.
    • Final boss trio is cheeseable with airblast reflects.
    Demo File
     
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  8. seth

    aa seth

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    Thank you so much for your feedback!

    I have added another dummy bomb. I reused the old intel for MoM, forgot to fix this. I believe I already have every bot except medics using the IgnoreFlag attribute; can medics use it too? I thought any tag broke their healing behavior.
    I'm not sure what to do about this. The stairs in the screenshot you posted are coated in func_nav_avoid which should work for any bots except mission bots, correct? I don't really have a problem with sentry busters going through them, but yeah, some giants can't fit through the shutters. Not really sure how to prevent them from doing it since they are already supposed to avoid them.
    It was suggested by another player that I split boss spawns from regular so that they COULDN'T spawn at the forward gate. Perhaps I should flip it so that they ONLY spawn at the forward gate?
    This was intentional. In my mind, it gives players a last-ditch opportunity to hold a point.
    Did this happen to you? The bots are set to stop spawning for the duration of the stun, so bots stacking up behind the door should be impossible.

    I was hoping it would feel okay since dispensers are usually most effective with more players. The initial idea was to have the MoM only autocollect money when carried, but as you said, there doesn't appear to be a way to autocollect old money. That behavior is hardcoded to scout. I think it would feel more frustrating trying to walk around and autocollect when it doesn't appear to always work.

    @FlipFTW and I will be fixing all mission files and adding another mission for the next version.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 5, 2021
  9. Jakapoa

    Jakapoa L1: Registered

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    This is an odd bug. Checking again, sometimes the hud breaks, sometimes it's fine. I would just ignore this for now then. What does need to be fixed is the CP hud. That's an easy fix, by changing the Cap Layout field of team_control_point_master to "0, 1". Mannhatten entity included for reference.
    [​IMG]

    The reason they are able to break through is because they can randomly charge, and if they're looking towards the door when they charge, then they'll be moved far enough past the avoid. I would recommend moving the avoid up to the door itself.

    On looking at the int demo 1, the problem actually appears to be with the logic in the gate. The previous wave had a robot capture the gate at the same time the wave ended, and the door ended up going down as the wave finished. Even though the door is reset on wave start, robots will still pile up on the other side of the door. I think it's because you call RecomputeBlockers only 1 second after wave start, and the door is still pretty wide open. Also because you don't send a CancelPending to the door at any point to stop this, which is a bit tricky because the stun, pop_interface, and door are all controlled by the same relay.
    [​IMG]

    I don't know what you mean by not spawning from the forward gate, wouldn't that defeat the purpose of having it? And it's fine to have bots come from the regular spawn anyway since it splits up the bots. The problem is that bots that come from the regular spawn take much longer to get to you, and it slows down the whole wave. What you could try doing is reworking this connection here, to let bots come from both spawns at the same pace. The thing you would need to watch out for here are your spawns, as all the bots are going off of the same spawn, and adding this would require more spawns and logic controlling them.
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. seth

    aa seth

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    I have compiled and tested with a dummy bomb and it appears to fix the problem all the time. My cap layout looks fine to me, but I went ahead and updated the TCP master to match Mannhattan as you suggested.

    I will extend the avoid there. This is the only door you had issues with, correct? The others are far enough inside the avoids to never have a problem with giants, at least in my experience.

    So theoretically I should be able to call CancelPending to the stun relay on wave end and everything should revert to normal before the next wave?

    I'm only referring to boss spawns, of which there are currently 15 (1 in intermediate, 14 in advanced). Do you think spawning bosses on the side that would move to the forward gate once open would be enough to keep up the pace? Gatebots should have time to catch up to you as you fight the bosses and keep the flow going.
     
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  11. Jakapoa

    Jakapoa L1: Registered

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    Replied in discord, pasting message:
    Yes that would work better.
     
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  12. seth

    aa seth

    Messages:
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    Positive Ratings:
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    a6

    Will probably still have some bugs associated with the MoM, but it is what it is.

    detail
    • added secondary port behind 2nd cp
    • started custom soundscapes
    • planters? planters.

    layout
    • refined catwalk geometry
    • opened connector area by u-turn
    • slightly extended playable area behind 2nd cp
    • added crate jump to shack in front of spawn
    • added resupply locker

    logic
    • fixed broken hud and matched cp layout to mannhattan
    • mom:
      • mom now resets if left on ground for 45 seconds
      • added additional spawn point in forward upgrade station and moved starting point to tank room near bot spawn
        • on first cap and if mom is currently on ground, teleports to new spawn point by forward upgrade station. after another 45 seconds on ground, teleports to old location behind 2nd cp.
      • fixed not dropping on round end and causing issues in next wave
    • extended some func_nav_avoids to eliminate fringe pathing errors
    • cancelled pending i/o on forward gate at wave end to eliminate fringe pathing errors

    bots
    • added prerequisites to help bots stay on active cp
    • fixed some spawns not having spawn protection
    • bosses will now take the forward gate once open
    • giants now remain at the first point during stun to make them easier to deal with
      • bosses are exempt and will continue to path forward during stun
    • disallowed sentry busters from capping
    • swapped mission finales with int/adv
    • intermediate mission:
      • renamed to advanced (now uses trio finale bosses)
      • added sentry busters
    • advanced mission:
      • renamed to intermediate (now uses solo finale boss)
      • wave 7 swapped one soldier boss with boss from intermediate mission
    • added expert mission

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    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
  13. seth

    aa seth

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    detail
    • secondary port refinements
    • various texture re-alignments
    layout
    • 2nd cp big pillar cover shift
    • various clipping improvements
    • mom info moved to floor in front of 1st spawn

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