Microcontest #11: Rule of Threes (Micro)

14bit

14bit

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The_Evil_Pickle said:
Here's my... thing.
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Linux servers crash if they try to load map files with capitals in them, please recompile with lower case letter so we can test this!
 
14bit

14bit

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Well, that seems like it was a pretty great start to the season! We got 24 maps spanning 10 different modes, 11 if you count the two variants of domination we got, and 12 if you count gravelpit as different from linear A/D. Without further ado, here's my feedback in the order the maps were played:

Way too small. Rather unconventional layout, too; you have it set up so that teams need to break through neutral ground to gain back the point. I'm not sure it works, since it means to retake mid you need to both clear out a lobby, push forwards through it, then hold the point while also defending that same lobby. Also, 24 players trying to fit through two small doorways isn't going to work no matter the layout, so I'd widen things up and maybe add another route from final to mid that skips the lobby if you're planning on holding onto this design.

The height advantage is way out of wack, making it almost impossible for Blu to attack B since Red is just above them at all times. This got RTV'd during the first round, since there was just no way for Blu to win. I somehow never saw A during my whole time playing, but it looks really neat! I don't think there's a way to really fix this without severely changing how the game play spaces interact with the height variation.

This is one of the most interesting maps we got to me, even though it's one of the worst playing. Having an extra, neutral flag makes things much more interesting than regular CTF, and I'd love to see this tried with a more traditional layout. The routes to get to and from the neutral flag are bonkers, and not in a good way. Forcing teams to retreat through a different route after grabbing the neutral flag is a great design move, but having it be an odd jumping route over a death pit wasn't the solution I'd have gone with. Routing is weird overall, and it's hard to tell what you're supposed to be doing. More clearly showing what is and isn't a spawn room would help a lot, I think.

Oh no, it's good. The opening works better than expected, the rest seems to be alright as well. B, where I spent most of my times doesn't really do what I want it to, and I think that's because of the awful connector to final that didn't get planned at all. Also, I was expecting final to suck, but it's not bad. Having red exit spawn on the low ground was a good idea in the end, since it allows Blu to have a shot a pushing. The transition between B and final is the weakest part, so that'll get reworked if I do continue this.

Hauntingly beautiful, but doesn't play very well. Mid and final feel very far apart, leading it to be overscaled. It feels closer in size to a 5cp map in my mind, so you might want to cut the extra courtyard between final and mid or just tighten up all the spaces. Players got lost a decent amount, so more distinctive geometry for each connector would be advised. Maybe diagonal wall spikes? Bars that cast repeating shadows on the floor? It also might be fun to change the color correction based on who owns mid, if that's possible. It's neat, whatever it is, and I'm excited to see if you do more of these for upcoming microcontests!

A bit too small, but fun and great visually! I'd move spawns back a bit or move the point more out of the way, since right now it's hard to cap when defenders have to push across their final to get to mid. The empty side rooms feel like they want to be lobbies for pushing final, but there's nothing in them to help with that so it just feels off. I'd work to alter the flow of mid to direct attackers towards those rooms and make them a more central part of the map.

Overscaled, but looks nice. Cut about half of the space between final and mid and this would work I think. Keeping it wide I think will also work well for this mode, since you need to get behind the enemy team to recap mid effectively. I've never played this mode before so I'm not sure what else to say, but I feel like this layout would work if it was smaller.

I like this one a lot! The balance is all over the place, but there's a solid base somewhere in here. First doesn't really have anywhere for Red to set up with, since it's easy for Blu to get everywhere it seems. Second also feels off, but I can't tell why; it probably has to do with the one-way route but I kind of like it so I'm hesitant to say that's where the issue lies. I thought second was too easy for Blu for a while, but then Red did a great defense in the third round there so I'm not really sure. Final is fun to defend, though the routes for attackers are a bit lacking, particularly the one under the floating train.

It took me a full round and a half to find mid; the layout doesn't flow well at all. What seems to be the main route makes you do two 180 degree turns before even leaving the area around final, and one of the spawn exits leads you to a dead end under the point so you have to backtrack out. Because of these things and more, none of the routes are intuitive. I'd simplify some of your twisting hallways into larger rooms. Also, it's unpacked, making mid just be a giant empty bridge. The split final point is particularly interesting, but with the rest of the map as it is now it's not great. If you can make it flow better and pack whatever's at mid, this could be a neat little 3cp!

I'm really not sure one this one. I had trouble keeping track of how to move between points, and while point was where in relation to the center one. Personally not a fan of the KotH timer system for domination (I prefer instant win on capping all three like Standin) but I think I'm in the minority on that one. Some bits are a bit dark too. A feels like the least interesting right now since there's a lot of empty space leading up to it from every angle. Solid start to a map though, I like the use of the theme to inform the design of the spaces!

I like it, though it's a bit too easy to get to the flags. Making it have a more defined mid and flag rooms rather than having them all in the same general area would probably help. Also really not sure if this counts as three objectives, since there's only actually two ways for each team to win; capture the flag or kill the enemies. The one-way doors are interesting, but I think it's too easy to get teammates to hold them open for an easy escape. Maybe have them paired with a ledge that makes it a bit harder to us them as effectively?

As the resident PASS Time expert (somehow), I really want to like this one. It's got a lot of good ideas, but the execution isn't quite there yet. Teams seem to keep spawning at the forward spawn for much longer than they should; in the official maps spawns move back the moment the ball leaves mid for the most part, but here they don't seem to move back when the ball's in the courtyards outside of mid. It's possible to build a sentry that covers every entrance to the area with the goals, and there's no good places to prep for a push into the goal zones. This loops back to the spawn issue, since the lobby where teams would group to make a push is right outside of the spawn exit for the forward spawn. Making the route through the building to the goal zone more prominent would probably help, since at the moment it feels like the only option is to go around near the bonus goal launcher which is then covered by a sentry. Solid start for an interesting PASS Time map, I'd consider trying a few more versions of this at least if you're interested!

Way, way too open and big. Not sure what's up with the points locking and unlocking either? I'm really not sure what to say other than ladders are janky, there's very little height variation outside of the points themselves, and there's not a lot going on overall. This is the fastest I've seen people want to skip a map in a long while. Cut the size in half, move the point underwater to not being underwater, and rework that weird bridge and you could have something most would consider playable, but as it stands it's more of a trade map than a regular one.

It's just a single, winding, mostly flat corridor without much variation. There's not much feedback I can give on this, since there's barely a layout.There's a few side areas, but the majority of the layout is one huge choke. I'd look into doubling the width of some of the hallways at least, and/or making the cart travel through some larger rooms rather than just hallways. There's not enough variety here to keep things interesting for the whole length of track, and no meaningful decisions for players to make about routes to take or places to set up.

Very open. Idolon and I dinne ken spoke a lot more about this map in general, and I agree that it feels like there's no way to effectively rotate between routes. It feels like half of the map is only accessible via a single doorway near the point, leading players to just keep throwing themselves at the choke by the rocks near mid since they don't realize there's more to the map. Shrink it all by like 50% and add some more ways to rotate between the routes and it could work. Mid's scary to exist on, and it's almost impossible to push past it as it stands. Really not sure what's up with the water bit near mid, it's so far out of the way that it doesn't do much for the map.

Blu can't seem to cap all the time, and Blu was spawning in Red's spawn sometimes. Seems interesting, particularly how the areas close off once the flags are gone. At least, I think that's what was happening. Mid seemed difficult to cross and not particularly interesting to me, but the areas near the sides with the support beams are neat. As it stands it's a pretty random-feeling collection of rooms, so condensing things into more defined spaces would probably be a good move.

Interesting! Like final a lot, if the cart doesn't stall at the choke before it. B is absolutely brutal, but kind of fun. The geometry is neat overall, though I'd like to see a bit more interesting stuff going on on the ground around A, since at the moment Red pretty much just has the one elevated room. It's a great room, it's just the only thing going on, and there's not much Blu can do to interact with it. Overall, there seems to be a general lack of microcover, though you've played with height variation pretty well.

Overscaled, unfortunately. I enjoy the combat spaces when there's combat in them, but there's too much dead space so fights don't often happen outside of the points. Pushes also never happen since there's too many routes for a team to group up for a focused push. I'd shift final to be more between A and B, and bring everything closer together. Blu spawn to B is the only bit that feels scaled right.

Neat idea, but it's too split up to work well maybe? Having the carts on different layers just leads to teams avoiding each other rather than fighting. Allowing players to bounce between the objectives as needed would probably help, since at the moment teams get split up and the whole map is decided by a bunch of smaller fights instead of building into bug pushes. Compressing things vertically would carts interact more would help with this since players would be able to switch carts a lot faster. I'm not sure if even that would help though, since asking players to attack and defend 6 things at once is a lot for any team.

The big thing is that it's too open, but you know that already. I like the attempt at a horseshoe shape; I've not seen it done in PASS Time before! The big issue it's going to cause is that teams are going to want to always stick to the inside edge, and you'll likely need to find a way to get players to not do that. You're part of the way there I think with the launch pads around mid; they push you to the edges, where ideally they'd then continue to follow a route around the outside of the enemy side around the defenses. At the moment there's no way to get around enemies that are set up on that inner edge, so it just becomes a tug-of-war over mid. Your goal areas are particularly wild; usually the throw-in goal is on the way to the run in so you can fake defenders out when running for a goal, but here you've split them up. Could be a neat? Final gripe: the bonus goal launch pads don't have any way to catch yourself from taking damage; all official maps either have water to land in or another launch pad to hit after the jump so you can avoid fall damage.

Wild. I really don't know how to give useful feedback on this that hasn't already been stated, but I'll do my best. It's fun to be sneaky and push a cart around the enemy hold, though that might not be a good thing. The clock needs work, but you know that already. I think it's clever that for sections two of the carts stay roughly together but another branches off; it allows for distraction plays and keeps them from all getting stuck in one choke. However, I think it might be worth exploring how adding a choke that all three need to pass through could play out. Neat idea, pretty good execution, I'm excited to see if you keep working on this idea!

Spawn broke, so we had to skip. Very, very small. Like, half the size of the smallest map in the game! I'd make the points bigger and space them out a bit more, since at the moment the whole map boils down to Spawn -> Room -> Three points <- Room <- Spawn. There's no way to flank, nowhere to set up and defend, and probably no way to do anything other than spawn camp. Quite competently constructed for a first map outside of the layout and logic issues, though!

I like how it wraps around itself, though it does allow Red to watch Blu entering the main building after A while defending B. Those shutter doors need to go; there's too many of them and it makes the chokes near impossible. In fact, much of the map is far too linear. Blu managed to break through and win on one of the rounds, but it was quite a slog for both teams. Rework the connectors and it'll probably play pretty alright, though I'd be careful about the A -> B transition since you've got a lot of ground and height to cover while also turning attackers 270 degrees.


For those that are curious, here's the breakdown of modes we got:

5 3cp
4 a/d
4 payload
3 domination
2 ctf
2 PASS Time
1 generator destruction
1 arena
1 KotH
1 PLR

Thanks for playing everyone, and good luck if you're continuing these on for the Minor or Major contests! I'll be back next month for another microcontest. See you then!
 
pont

pont

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Mar 15, 2018
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ty for the feedback! a choke sounds very interesting - multiple carts offer a lot of moving cover and a huge healing boost, though others noted how the most interesting parts of the layout were where carts occupied multiple different areas of a space. it'll need a lot of experimentation, for sure!
 
Kill_the_Bug

Kill_the_Bug

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Oct 6, 2008
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Kill_the_Bug

Kill_the_Bug

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Oct 6, 2008
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14bit

14bit

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Kill_the_Bug said:
I thought it was still ongoing [...]
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You missed the line before that:
  • The Microcontest ends tomorrow.
We ran three contests at once with the same theme; this is the thread for the Microcontest, which ended on February 14th.
 
Kill_the_Bug

Kill_the_Bug

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Ok thanks :)

Is it or can it be posted to those? and if yes how? Been a while since I've entered into one of these.
 
Idolon

Idolon

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Kill_the_Bug said:
Is it or can it be posted to those? and if yes how? Been a while since I've entered into one of these.
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Idolon said:
  • An upload thread will be created about a week before the deadline for each contest. You must post your map in that thread to submit your map to each contest.
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