Meet Your Map: Beater's Competitive Mapmaking Challenge!

Discussion in 'Contests' started by Beater, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. Kingorcoc

    Kingorcoc L1: Registered

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    is there going to group where we can maybe test these maps i would love to try some
     
  2. Yrr

    aa Yrr An Actual Deer

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    id just assume whatever the current whitelist is for now
     
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  3. EArkham

    aa EArkham Necromancer

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    To be clear, it doesn't matter how old a map is as long as it hasn't been played in one of the leagues mentioned, correct?
     
  4. Beater

    Beater L1: Registered

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    I somewhat answered why I didn't allow A/D already, and I don't feel like going super in-depth about it is really going to achieve much since there's no way I am changing my opinion or the rules. Long story short: A/D isn't a very dynamic game mode and I have no faith in it.

    I'll make a steam group for testing maps. I have 2 weeks off for Christmas and New years starting this Thursday, so that's when I'll start to truly put in some work.

    The whitelist is the etf2l whitelist, so no need to keep wranglers, for example, in mind when making your map. I don't know how much the whitelist will change this off-season, but I wouldn't surprised to see the jetpack and dragon's fury unbanned.

    The age of the map does not matter.
     
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  5. Kingorcoc

    Kingorcoc L1: Registered

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    are we going to see antiquity then?
     
  6. EArkham

    aa EArkham Necromancer

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    Maaaaaaaaaybeeeeeeeee.
     
  7. Kingorcoc

    Kingorcoc L1: Registered

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    :) nice its a cool map hope i get to test it in 6s
     
  8. Yrr

    aa Yrr An Actual Deer

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    Something I wanna bring up actually is that I hope this contest deals with the major issue previous competitive map cups have had, which is that nobody bothers to learn the maps

    In TFTV's new map cup, almost none of the teams competing played the maps at all until their matches, which gives a terrible impression of the maps. The most egregious example being that the payload map got thrown live on stream because the teams didnt even know how the changes that had been made to the mode worked - they hadn't even looked at the map thread. The other maps (mine included) were generally just played in whatever the most obvious way was, with no attempts to counter or strategise.
    That combined with the players attacking the maps and their creators openly put a lot of mappers off trying to create competitive maps.

    If you can somehow encourage teams to learn the maps this time, and try out new strategies, the results of this contest will probably be a lot better.
    (That and getting them to give feedback more useful than "this map is cancer and the creator should kill themselves")
     
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  9. bobotype

    bobotype L1: Registered

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    It's your competition I guess, but A/D has plenty of potential to be very dynamic, especially with Gravelpit-style and Steel-style designs. Only the design flaws of existing maps is what's holding them back, and I think it's very unwise to write off the mode because of correctable flaws in the maps.

    Basically you're saying "this mode is undynamic because of these flaws on these maps, so it's not worth making more dynamic maps;" and "I'm looking for something fresh, but not willing to experiment." It isn't logical at all.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
  10. Beater

    Beater L1: Registered

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    We will be testing the maps submitted so far tonight at 20 CET on Essentials's stream

    Tune in to get some feedback, or simply to watch supposedly good players run into walls!
     
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  11. armio43

    armio43 L1: Registered

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    Thank you very much for running the first event Beater! I will take notes from the demo.
     
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  12. hutty

    aa hutty

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    Yeah, the feedback from this is invaluable, thanks a lot.
     
  13. Kingorcoc

    Kingorcoc L1: Registered

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    will there be any place for worse players also to test the maps
     
  14. Messing Around

    Messing Around L5: Dapper Member

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    idk if you're being sarcasm or not, but you can test your map right on tf2maps servers, people come to play everyday
     
  15. Beater

    Beater L1: Registered

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    I've made a steam group meant to test these maps. If you know how to play 6v6, you're invited!

    http://steamcommunity.com/groups/BeaterMapTestGroup

    I'll try to get a mix going tonight at 19:00 CET, in about half an hour
     
  16. Kingorcoc

    Kingorcoc L1: Registered

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    no u got the wrong idea sorry i don't make maps i just like playing them
     
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  17. Aron Times

    Aron Times L1: Registered

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    I would like to echo Yrr's concerns about this. 70 EUR (83 USD) for the best map with no guarantee of it being played, after countless hours of work? You have to get actual 6s players to participate in this because the maps are being made for them.

    I played in one of the contender maps (I think it was called Mist) and while we provided a lot of feedback, the type of feedback I personally provide is for 12v12 games.I asked in alltalk why people were bothering to make maps for 6s when the 6s community has historically been very resistant to change, and why we of all people were the ones doing the testing when none of us there play 6s as our primary format.

    Are we going to end up with another map that gets trashed on stream and its creator harassed and flamed by ignorant people?

    https://twitter.com/UEAKCrash/status/943347198540075008

    I will confess that the mention of Essentials.tf piqued my interest. Half of the people involved hate the other half. Still, there is hope that something good will come out of this. I mean, you have Wiethoofd on staff. He's a good man, and one I am confident would handle this well.
     
  18. hutty

    aa hutty

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    Yo @Aron Times author of cp_mist here. the maps in this cup are getting tested with competitive players (there was a test last week and will be another one on Thursday as I can gather). Beater and the Essentials.tf community are doing a good job at providing quality feedback and getting the maps tested, from what I've seen so far. So this isn't just a make-post-and-dash type of contest.

    Feedback on the TF2maps.net tests isn't without value, even though its not the same demographic that my map is targeting. They are great for making sure fight spaces play out well, as well as catching bugs and other issues.
     
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  19. armio43

    armio43 L1: Registered

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    The competitive community likes quality, they just suck at articulating it.

    Judging by the first challenge day most of what they voiced on the stream was worthless or insignificant for an in-development map. There's going to be only a few valid criticisms but try to make the most of those.
     
  20. Aron Times

    Aron Times L1: Registered

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    This just in, 6s players don't like change. Details at 11.

    I'm going to predict that anything that stands out is going to be ground down to conform to the 6s meta, and it will still not be good enough for the community. Nothing will ever be good enough. It's an unpleasable fanbase.