KotH Eros RC2a

[Uncuepa]

Let's talk Ilios. The workshop is lit with claims you copied Ilios from Overwatch, and so far you've said you did not copy.

It seems like you don't understand how similar Eros and Ilios are. I'm not talking artstyle, since YES its based off a real place. Lets just look at layout.

While possibly you've never even played Overwatch, you have to understand how fucking similar Eros is to Ilios is to one another.

 

[Yrr]

I'll give you the last 3 (altho they play entirely different), but the rest are much more different than you're giving them credit for. Those first two may look similar but they have differences that impact massively on how they play.

Nobody made these comparisons when it had a different theme.

 

[RataDeOrdenador]

Well I've never played Overwatch. But I must say both maps look really similar.

...Still,I (at least) don't care at all. And what if they look almost the same? It's like complaining about all the apples in the world being the same size,shape and color,when obviously they're not.

 

[Uncuepa]

It's like complaining about all the apples in the world being the same size,shape and color,when obviously they're not.

So if someone copied the layout of your map to 75% accuracy you wouldn't call them out of plagarism? (Im not accusing Bak of plagarism, just trying to make Rata understand)

 

[Yrr]

I mean we don't call every koth map a viaduct ripoff, as similar as most of them are

maps are frequently derivative works and as long as people do enough different with them to make them their own its all good

 

[RataDeOrdenador]

So if someone copied the layout of your map to 75% accuracy you wouldn't call them out of plagarism? (Im not accusing Bak of plagarism, just trying to make Rata understand)

Maybe,but still that's no excuse to turn the Workshop post into a "OVERWATCH RIPOFF" storm. There's a TON of people who doesn't care about this stupid "TF2 vs Overwatch" fight,or whatever.

God,there's even people who are making "CS:GO into TF2" maps,like Nuke or Infierno,and I don't see any "CS:GO RIPOFF" shenanigans.

(yes,I know TF2-CS:GO and TF2-Overwatch are 2 completely different things. But it would make sense if someone actually complained about those maps I posted)

 

[Bakscratch]

Of course it gonna copy similar game play elements, you could probably compare illios to other tf2 maps

See there is a bridge connecting 2 areas

 

[Grizzly Berry]

I actually started a Santorini-style map a month or so ago, but decided to put it off until the jam this weekend. Glad to see you'll be taking the majority of the heat for "stealing" from Ilios. Going to download and run around this a bit. Has this been played in any imps/gamedays? I've been a bit out of the loop here.

Edit: Just played and whew...Those sniper sightlines at mid are powerful. You can rotate between the two battlement areas and pretty much cover every entrance to mid and see people coming from a ways off.

 

[Diva Dan]

I agree with most people here saying that it's irrelevant to discuss that it was inspired by overwatch or an overwatch ripoff, but saying it doesn't look or play similar to Elios at all would just be dishonest. Down to the symmetry, center, and flanks, it is undeniably similar to Elios.

Also, contrary to what Yrzzy said,

Nobody made these comparisons when it had a different theme.

I actually did point out in chat (or at least to myself) that the map reminded me a lot of Overwatch when it was played in an imp one day. It was especially the center and partnering rooms that reminded me of Elios.

Overall it's really no use to argue about; it's not like you will get a cease and desist warning or something for making a map in greece

 

[Idolon]

These two bits are pretty much identical (including their position in the layout), which makes it hard for me to believe that there isn't any copying going on. That said, big deal. It's a derivative work. Pretty much everything on this site is. I think Ilios probably should've gotten at least a mention in the promotional material for the map, but at some point it's pretty much implied.

 

[Bakscratch]

These two bits are pretty much identical (including their position in the layout), which makes it hard for me to believe that there isn't any copying going on. That said, big deal. It's a derivative work. Pretty much everything on this site is. I think Ilios probably should've gotten at least a mention in the promotional material for the map, but at some point it's pretty much implied.

Yeah this 2 parts as well.

 

[Sergis]

imo any talk of ripping off a layout is useless without an overhead view

also the overall crampedish feel of the map reminds me of all overwatch maps at the same time

 

[Prestige]

overwatch copied everything from tf2 so i think it's ok to take their white buildings idea

 

[Jethro]

95% of people are going to look at this map and go "Oh hey it's that map from Overwatch."

I mean, you can argue with them all you want about how a cow isn't a cow, but they'll still say it's a cow.

I'm not going to deny it doesn't look good, or you haven't put a lot of work into it, but geez man. You seem to be defensive about it.

 

[Kube]

95% of people are going to look at this map and go "Oh hey it's that map from Overwatch."

I mean, you can argue with them all you want about how a cow isn't a cow, but they'll still say it's a cow.

I'm not going to deny it doesn't look good, or you haven't put a lot of work into it, but geez man. You seem to be defensive about it.

I mean, it's obvious Bak put a ton of work into his map. For it to be immediately put down must be disheartening, to say the least.

Quite honestly, they're both Greece? They're both bright and colorful? And they're both individual works. I think Bak just don't doesn't want to see people jumping to conclusions.

 

[YM]

I mean we don't call every koth map a viaduct ripoff, as similar as most of them are

I have just two things to say to this whole thing:

1) I call out viaduct layout clones whenever I see them. I call them out hard. It's not the layout that's really the iffy thing here, it's the detailing here that's similar not the layout. (Though the layout does have strong echoes but it's not the blatant thing)

2) The more you defend it sarcastically, the more it looks like you're defending some blatant copying. My gut tells me that this detail pass happened entirely after the launch of Overwatch. If that's the case, you have a more or less indefensible position here, people are calling it out and correctly. If, however, you did start this before you became influenced by Overwatch, then say it, prove it, and leave it at that. Don't engage with workshop comments.

As you say, Overwatch didn't invent Greece, but they did put out a level that looks exactly like yours does, before yours. Swallow your pride, take the hit and this will all blow over in a while.

 

[Mikroscopic]

I don't think it looks like Overwatch's version at all. It looks like both were inspired by the same thing, but not one from another.

 

[Yrr]

I'm not going to deny it doesn't look good, or you haven't put a lot of work into it, but geez man. You seem to be defensive about it.

it sucks to put a lot of effort into a map and create new assets etc for it

and then all people have to say is that its uncreative and a ripoff

It's not the layout that's really the iffy thing here, it's the detailing here that's similar not the layout. (Though the layout does have strong echoes but it's not the blatant thing)

it's the layout that keeps getting called out

 

[Beef Bucket]

I feel like making a map with a layout similar to another map is forgivable, and making map with an aesthetic similar to another map is forgivable, but having a layout and aesthetic similar to the same map is when eyebrows are raised whether your intentions were good or not.
My useless advice would be to go back to the Hell theme or change the gamemode

 

[Jethro]

I just said this in chat, and I can't really phrase it any better, so I'm just gonna copy paste it verbatim for my "opinion" on it/drama I guess.

03:03 - Jethro: the thing is i guess it's... i don't know how to put it
03:03 - Jethro: it's troublesome to me because like... there's multiple ways you can do egypt, or japan, really
03:04 - Jethro: there's only one way you can do santorini, and that's where people are going "HEY LOOK IT'S THAT MAP FROM OW"
03:04 - KubeKing - MM: I see what you mean jeth
03:04 - KubeKing - MM: any ref pictures of santorini all look the same
03:04 - Jethro: because it's very much a... defined thing, yeah
03:05 - Jethro: if it was a map that was even more like any other overwatch map i don't think the problem would even arise as bad