TF2Maps and Potato’s MvM Servers Present: Mappers vs Machines

Discussion in 'Contests' started by LeSwordfish, Apr 5, 2017.

  1. Tumbolisu

    aa Tumbolisu  I ⌄ I 

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  2. That Hat Guy

    That Hat Guy L1: Registered

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    As an update on this, my friend and I are beginning to work on the map, which has expanded into a more coastal area, rather than just a beach. It'll start on a boardwalk, where the team will spawn from, and go out into the beach, which will end at the docks, surrounded by the ocean. The robots will jump down from the carrier tank and storm the beach.

    We would like some help designing the map in general, though. We're mainly versed in modelling cosmetics, and this is the first mapping experience for either of us. Anybody interested in collaborating with us as the third member of our group can contact my friend on Steam. Thank you!
     
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  3. Da Spud Lord

    aa Da Spud Lord The smartest potato you'll never eat

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    Anyone know how big the tank is? I'm trying to make an MvM map and, despite numerous searches, I can't find any information on how wide the tank path needs to be.
     
  4. HolySnickerPuffs

    aa HolySnickerPuffs Bad at TF2, Loves Mapping For TF2

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    Im not at a computer right now, buy Id say having a path 384hu will be good.
     
  5. Da Spud Lord

    aa Da Spud Lord The smartest potato you'll never eat

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    Thanks. I also figured out that I could add a tank as a prop for reference, which is hella useful.
     
  6. Gadget

    aa Gadget

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    The tunnel on Rottenburg is 288hu wide, that's the absolute minimum. 384hu should be fine then if you also want players to be able to squeeze through at the same time.
     
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  7. Mr. DerpedGamer

    Mr. DerpedGamer L1: Registered

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    I just looked up the prop of the tank and modeled my tunnel off of it.
    models\bots\boss_bot\static_boss_tank.mdl
     
  8. Hydrogen

    Hydrogen MvM Maniac

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    So we've been playing alpha MvM maps for the contest and I have some comments to make based on what I have seen so far:

    1. Like I have mentioned before, feel free to use a Valve pop file to test your map as you develop the layout. If you submit an alpha map for testing, make sure to submit a pop file with it (rename a valve one if you want). Otherwise, it wastes everyone's time if someone has to make the pop file for you (it also glitches up the server). Your map risks being skipped from testing if you don't do this.

    2. If your map supports tanks, make sure tanks work on your map (give it the proper path_track name). We've had some maps where the tanks auto-deployed on the hole and so we can't actually test the tank working on the map. If you want to maximize your testing feedback, make sure the map works at a bare minimum. On the same token, make sure the mission you use uses the same info_player_teamspawn names for the bots that the pop file does. If the mission uses, say, "spawnbot_other" but you only have "spawnbot" on your map, then the bots that should spawn in "spawnbot_other" won't spawn on the map, thus hanging up the wave. (Bigrock pop files avoid this since they use exclusively "spawnbot", so you can just use bigrock missions to avoid that headache if you want.)

    3. Use a difficult pop file for testing. If the pop file is too easy then the middle and entire back of the map usually never gets used, so problems not at the front of the map will never be noticed (i.e. only the front is ever tested). Difficult pop files will push players all over the map, which not only allows them to test the entire map but also allows them (and you) to see how various sections of the map are used. It also will tell you where players will tend to camp when they get pushed back from the front, and if certain back routes have too strong chokepoints. You don't get any of that useful insight if people just steamroll the bots at their drop point.

    4. Be diligent while playing WIP MvM maps - you don't always play MvM as you would in mann up or elsewhere when map testing. There are moments where mappers want the bots and tanks to *not die* on purpose so that they can check if a certain area of the map works with them (e.g. bot pathing, nav mesh, tank maneuvering, etc). It's incredibly frustrating when people ignore this and kill the bots anyway. Although you think you're being helpful for helping the team win the game (which you probably are), you're not being helpful to the mapper which further lengthens the testing process. Pay attention to and obey what the mapper says - they are in charge of the game.

    5. Don't pack in the nav and pop file into your map while it's in development. I'll release instructions on how to do this correctly when we reach the end of the contest, but for now leave the nav and pop files out of the bsp file (at the very least it lowers the bsp file size so people download it faster; at best it avoids server crashes). Please repack your map as well so that it saves us a lot of time during map transitions. The server does bz2 all maps but the lzma compression that repacking uses typically compresses better.

    6. Our FastDL server kind of sucks and can misbehave at bad times. When it works, it works really well. Other times it just refuses to work. If you get dropped from the server for missing map, try reconnecting again to download the map. On the same token, if you notice that the HUD has checkerboard icons, that's because you likely have "map only downloads" set on your client. You'll need to temporarily disable that and then download the ~1000 class icon files (yes I know, it sucks) from the server so that custom robot icons show up on the HUD.

    7. Although the server is not owned by TF2Maps, the official TF2Maps forum, chat and server rules are still in full force on the MvM server (mostly because we're too lazy to come up with our own set of rules and it helps with consistency). We haven't had any issues with this from the testing we have done, but just keep that in mind so there are no surprises in terms of moderation.

    I think that's all I have to say for the moment. The procedure for submitting maps for testing is kind of a mess right now but we'll eventually straighten that out and have some systematic approach for MvM map testing. Thanks for submitting your maps and I hope to see more submissions and updates soon!
     
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  9. Mikroscopic

    aa Mikroscopic

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    Do maps need to be added to a list to be tested or will they just be pulled from here whenever?

    Is there somewhere to check recorded feedback or demos?
     
  10. Hydrogen

    Hydrogen MvM Maniac

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    We'll set up a formal list somewhere eventually but for the time being it is the latter: We will just pull it from here whenever.

    For the moment, they are all located here.
     
  11. Mikroscopic

    aa Mikroscopic

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    The feedback data seems to have trouble extracting.
     
  12. Hydrogen

    Hydrogen MvM Maniac

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    All the zip files use BZ2 or LZMA compression since they compress the data the best (just like maps are bz2'd or repacked with lzma).

    Use 7zip or other similar utility to extract the zip files.
     
  13. UKCS-Alias

    aa UKCS-Alias Mann vs Machine... or... Mapper vs Meta?

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  14. Mr. DerpedGamer

    Mr. DerpedGamer L1: Registered

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    I've made my nav_mesh, popfiles in the right place, a "working hatch", and have a spawnroom with a bomb, visualizer, and (blu) playerteamspawns, yet the bots won't spawn. I think it's the hatch's fault but I don't know because the bots won't spawn so I can't test it. so I'm stuck and need help.
     
  15. Micnax

    aa Micnax I maek map

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    Are your spawnpoints named the same as the tags that the bots will spawn at?
     
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  16. Hydrogen

    Hydrogen MvM Maniac

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    This Saturday (April 29) and Sunday (April 30) we're going to sit down and play every single WIP alpha map in one long marathon. If you haven't submitted an alpha and want to get some feedback on your progress, now is a good time to put it on TF2Maps! Try to be available as well since you'll maximize on feedback by being in the server while we play your map.

    We don't have a formal place for submitting your map (that may change pretty soon), so for now just stick your map in the MvM downloads page here and I'll put all the latest versions on the server on Saturday (~12:00 ET).

    Right now we're going to roll with one server, but if there is enough interest to play MvM we'll run games on two servers.

    LATE EDIT: Formal place for submitting is now here.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017
  17. Da Spud Lord

    aa Da Spud Lord The smartest potato you'll never eat

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    Dat timing doe, I was writing up the description for my MvM map download post when I saw this.
     
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  18. Paragon761

    Paragon761 L1: Registered

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    How do i become a judge as i would enjoy playtesting some of the entrants?
     
  19. Viperi

    aa Viperi not actually a snek

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    I believe you must be a participant of a former contest.
     
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  20. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    If that was the case, we'd never had gotten judges in the first place.
     
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