• Center Save Changes Reset

CTF Mann's Land rc2

An attempted recreation of TF2's unreleased Badlands

  1. Chrytin

    Chrytin L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    63
    Positive Ratings:
    38
    Mann's Land - An attempted recreation of TF2's unreleased Badlands

    Mann's Land is an attempted recreation (admittedly with limited success) of the unreleased TF2 remake of TFC's Badlands. Originally made prior to the game's release, this map never saw the light of day, outside of some leaked props in the SFM beta and screenshots posted to an Artstation portfolio by Stephane Gaudette, a former Valve environmental artist.

    Through use of salvaged props provided by 404UserNotFound, recreated textures by Fancy990, additional props courtesy of Rexy, Void and StoneFrog, Mann's Land is a project of mine almost 2 years in the making. It's extremely rough around the edges (and in the department of optimization) but it's been an excellent learning experience for me which will undoubtedly be of immense benefit in the future.

    Special thanks to Doc for continued assistance throughout development.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  2. Jasper The Blank

    Jasper The Blank L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    392
    Positive Ratings:
    197
    other than a few missing things from the artpass, this is a really good replication. dunno about that 107MB file size though.

    EDIT: Did you repack it?
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  3. BigfootBeto

    aa BigfootBeto Too obsessed with perfection

    Messages:
    369
    Positive Ratings:
    561
  4. Chrytin

    Chrytin L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    63
    Positive Ratings:
    38
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Kobolite

    aa Kobolite Eternally floating through time and space

    Messages:
    489
    Positive Ratings:
    339
  6. Jasper The Blank

    Jasper The Blank L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    392
    Positive Ratings:
    197
    I've been running around the map, and it looks fantastic! Found some bugs along the journey. Also you made me stay up late. Props for you!
    [​IMG]
    Don't just clip the beams; clip the entire tunnel

    [​IMG]
    I know this is out of bounds, but this model has extra collision sticking out.

    [​IMG]
    This model too.

    [​IMG]
    Needs something like a gate rather than a clip brush without any knowledge of it being there

    [​IMG]
    Never seen this door before. I like how you try to use it since no other map does (to my knowledge) but in the original screenshot, it's one of those grate doors again.

    [​IMG]
    Why do these instant kill triggers exist? Just slap on some chicken wire on the ceiling (with clipping on the top) and you're good to go.

    All the clipping problems i've caught are pretty minor, but I don't want to screenshot it all. g'night yall
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  7. MegapiemanPHD

    aa MegapiemanPHD Doctorate in Deliciousness

    Messages:
    891
    Positive Ratings:
    438
    This is really cool. Ran around the map and found a few issues.

    20180115041433_1.jpg
    All these planks clip through each other. It seems to happen on all or most of them and just looks sloppy.

    20180115041443_1.jpg
    seam

    20180115041758_1.jpg
    this door is oddly shiny. It really looks weird compared to the rest of the map

    20180115041558_1.jpg
    This grass thing is oddly bright considering it's in a shadow

    20180115041912_1.jpg
    Try using smooth groups on this curved desk and see if it'll get rid of all the segmenting

    20180115042017_1.jpg
    seam

    20180115042154_1.jpg
    The train's shadow goes through the bridge and shows on the ground below

    20180115042552_1.jpg
    Lighting does something weird here by making triangles on the floor
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  8. HolySnickerPuffs

    aa HolySnickerPuffs Bad at TF2, Loves Mapping For TF2

    Messages:
    888
    Positive Ratings:
    1,203
    This was so accurate, I thought that every screenshot was from the leak, instead of a comparison between the leaks and this remake. Good job!
     
  9. Jasper The Blank

    Jasper The Blank L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    392
    Positive Ratings:
    197
  10. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

    Messages:
    4,489
    Positive Ratings:
    2,217
    All except that last one; I don't think anyone has ever figured out why cubemapped floors get warped like that.
     
  11. KubeKing

    Server Staff KubeKing dan's birthday was fun

    Messages:
    1,232
    Positive Ratings:
    1,471
    Hey @Fashy Goy, is this your Workshop submission? None of the creators' usernames match up with yours on the site, and the submission name is different.

    upload_2018-1-15_21-13-1.png
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Another Bad Pun

    Server Staff Another Bad Pun learning to fly

    Messages:
    578
    Positive Ratings:
    1,177
    I took a look at both maps and I think it's just a huge coincidence.
    For one thing, the workshop CP version has a lot of brushwork copied directly from badlands and 2fort. This CTF version is also superior when it comes to displaying technical mapping skill. One final sidenote is that the maps are rotated 90 degrees to each other.

    Either we're not in the know about something, or this is just an insane coincidence.


    EDIT:

    I've also noticed that your map isn't using -staticproppolys or -staticproplighting. If it's not intentional, I would look up those compile command lines because they could make the map look a lot better.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  13. Chrytin

    Chrytin L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    63
    Positive Ratings:
    38
    @KubeKing @Another Bad Pun It is in fact a tremendous coincidence that I became aware of yesterday around the time I was preparing to post this map here. I've since contacted the author and we've taken to swapping assets, such as his replica gas stations, elevator scaffolds and roofing textures, as well as my and fancy990's reskined canyon and quarry props as well as my fixed blends and textures. I too did a double take when I first saw it, and upon looking through it was amazed at just how many coincidences there were, from the rotating clouds to the gravelpit inspired quarry areas. It really is unfathomable to me that such a thing occurred, on the exact same day no less, but I can confirm that both were developed completely independently and without knowledge of each other.

    Also on the topic of advanced lighting compile, I'm holding that off until I can possibly get a better optimized map that will also compile in a more timely manner. I'll freely admit to having nicked plenty of brushwork designs and other details from the maps I took a lot of design inspiration from, especially launch maps like 2fort, and because this map spanned such a large period of time the quality and especially cleanliness of brushwork varies greatly. Much of the interior is extensively optimized however much of the exterior isn't, or is done so fairly poorly as a result of the map's openness. I don't fully expect to ever really get this map to a state in which it runs exceptionally well nor can I foresee myself going back and redoing all the brushwork that is already in, as by that point it would be far more time efficient to just start again from scratch, which I have by no means ruled out doing at some point in the future, as the original Badlands props were uploaded almost an entire year after I initially started work on the map and while I was more or less on hiatus from the game. Large sections of the map were already completed by the time they were posted, which resulted in me making the decision to make them work around the map rather than the map working around them. In the event I ever decide to attempt to fully replicate the original, including the original interior layout, it will be done around the props presented and not vice versa. I do have something I hope to work on for my next project however, which means that a proper, true remake could be a long way off.

    Now with regards to @Skittelz Pie and the issues he found, I will be adding proper tunnel clipping prior to the release of the next version, rc2. However, on the topic of prop clipping, namely the rail side quarry and the quarry stairs, due to my lack of experience with actual modeling beyond what I did for this project, which was limited to compiling existing models with a differently colored variant of the same texture, I am not personally capable, at least at the time being, of modifying the collision of the props in question to be more accurate. I am considering disabling the collision on the stairs prop and instead clipping it with block bullets, which is what PJX did and in fact sent me as part of the assets we shared, though that will have to wait for the next version. A train gate is something I was considering, though turned out to be a bigger problem in practice due to the proximity of the tracks to each other. If not a gate there will be something in the next version that will resolve the issue of that particular clip area not being clear enough. As far as the blast doors go, they were largely a result of the fact that the more shed or barn appearing doors in the original screenshots don't themselves exist in the game, and their closes approximation, which is used on this map around the mid section, is unworkable as a functioning door. If it proves to be a problem in play, they will likely be replaced, though what with I am not currently sure. And finally, with regards to the kill triggers, it is a result of me wanting to keep the roofless areas of the connecting buildings open so that soldiers, demos as well as scouts and pyros (using the right items) can take a shortcut and get through. However I did not want to present an opportunity for those classes or any other classes to be able to take up that area as a vantage point, which is why it was not covered. The tops of the walls beside it have push triggers on them as well to prevent classes from being able to stay where they are not supposed to. The kill triggers are really just a result of not wanting classes to get stuck inside the shed, not being able to stand on top of it, and offering new routes while simultaneously keeping with the original screenshots' designs.

    Finally to address @MegapiemanPHD and his findings, the plank clipping is mostly a result of me finding them generally to be unyielding and not ideal for curved upward paths, however they were decided on as a more minimalist and believable way of doing it, as opposed to natural stairs or the like. I'm actually unsure of what else could be put there, or of a better way in which to go about adding them, so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Both instances of seams on both sides of the map have been resolved for the next version, the oddly lit grass props have been removed, and the oddly shiny blast door exterior has been fixed by way of affixing a hanging light to the overhang above it, as per the original screenshot. The blast doors, for some reason, have that shiny texture whenever they are in low light. I'll be looking into trying to improve the intel tables with smoothing groups, and see what I possibly can do about the train car shadows and odd cubemaps, though I am unsure of the causes of either of these so no guarantees can be made.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    • Like Like x 1
  14. KubeKing

    Server Staff KubeKing dan's birthday was fun

    Messages:
    1,232
    Positive Ratings:
    1,471
    @Fashy Goy One more quick question. Is this platform copied from anywhere?

    20180115224825_1.jpg

    Both maps have the textures stretched in the same way. The platform is only partially visible in the Valve artwork.

    20180115225557_1.jpg

    1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  15. Chrytin

    Chrytin L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    63
    Positive Ratings:
    38
    That platform is part of the original model, props_badlands\quarry_stairs.mdl . The original uses the temptile texture, which can still be found in the props_badlands directory and can be found used on other original, unused props such as the gas station, exterior elevator, footbridge and spytech car. For some reason most of the temp models which use this texture do so in extremely odd proportions. I learned this while compiling my new textured models when I tried using an actual wood texture and the stretching made it look atrocious. It was for that reason I decided against using a new texture at all and reverted it to the aforementioned temptile. This is one particular instance in which I would need the help of an actual modeler as it is out of my area of knowledge.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  16. KubeKing

    Server Staff KubeKing dan's birthday was fun

    Messages:
    1,232
    Positive Ratings:
    1,471
    Thank you for the explanation. One last thing:

    Do you think the Workshop map is an updated copy of your release, cp_scrapped? (I'm not sure if A1 was ever up for download.)
     
  17. Chrytin

    Chrytin L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    63
    Positive Ratings:
    38
    The author told me he started work on his some time in 2013, so very likely not. Even if it were a copy, or used scrapped as a base to work off of, there is so much that has been done to it to differentiate it that I would definitely consider it a work of its own. Plus the layouts are considerably different. In terms of flow and overall layout, the workshop version much more closely matches that of cp_badlands than scrapped ever did. This can be attributed to things like the dropdown at at the forward battlements and spawn, the more badlands derived middle bridge, and basically the entirety of the interior. I definitely am a fan of what he managed to do and how he went about it.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
  18. Another Bad Pun

    Server Staff Another Bad Pun learning to fly

    Messages:
    578
    Positive Ratings:
    1,177
    re: optimization

    I think you have enough structures at your disposal to hint the map better than you might think. One thing you should definitely do is place nodraw brushes inside your cliffwall props and displacements. This will let you create hints around those nodraw brushes. There's also the option of occluder, which could work pretty okay in a few areas, since I'm assuming most of the cliffs are props.

    A few other things you should consider:
    Using prop fades! I can't find any on your map and they are very important. If you do have any, I promise you can be far more aggressive with them and get away with it.
    Skybox brushes can also be very helpful when it comes to configuring your map for hinting. If you're a little new to that kind of stuff, I've found this guide by mangycarface to be very helpful.

    I do see what you mean by it being potentially difficult, especially at mid, but if you're creative enough, I think you'll be able to squeeze some water out of this stone.
     
  19. YOYOYO

    YOYOYO L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    311
    Positive Ratings:
    151
    So first of all I just gotta say, this is a beautiful map! and an insanely accurate representation (I hope that's the right word) of the original map. This map would do great in TF2, because its finally an original ctf map! Not that the other ctf maps are "original" per SE. Though there is one major problem I had while playing.
    Apparently if you get killed by the train, the train drags the flag with it into its inaccessible tunnel. Here's some screenshots of what it looks like:
    ctf_manns_land0006.jpg
    ctf_manns_land0005.jpg
    ctf_manns_land0003.jpg
    I'm sorry, but I'm not sure how to fix this, mainly because my Intel on trains and moving stuff is slim. Still, hope this helps! :p
     

    Attached Files:

    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  20. G.bo

    G.bo L3: Member

    Messages:
    121
    Positive Ratings:
    86
    To quote They Might Be Giants...

    "I confess, I admit, I'm impressed."
     
    • Agree Agree x 2