KotH Bagel rc2a

It looks like a donut

  1. Tsarbucks

    Tsarbucks L1: Registered

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    Your map has everything I like about Coalplant/Ashville and more. I think it will be an amazing map for the pug group.

    My only concerns are a lot of areas where it looks like you can go, but you can't walk into them. There's also no indication where you can cap on the lower level. I think changing that texture to the stock capture point one would be better.

    I'll post screenshots of such areas soon.

    Screenshots:
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/j3dte6p9v24xof4/AACA77bbJ4zj0y4Bza-77-5Wa?dl=0
     
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    Last edited: Aug 14, 2016
  2. Yrr

    aa Yrr An Actual Deer

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    Thank you for this early feedback!

    I had suspicions about the capzone not being obvious enough and about those spots being distracting, next version I'll prob put some props or something in those spots so they look more blocked off, and think about using the hazard strip texture on the point outline.
     
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  3. EquaL tf.gg

    EquaL tf.gg L1: Registered

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    Map is really well made, I like the design and the underpass area is really cool. I'll try to give you the feedback i can, what you do with it is up to you ofc. (6s perspective)

    The only problem i found was 2 sniper sight lines that make sniper really strong.
    First sight line is this one:
    http://imgur.com/a/pP5Me

    The way it covers the 3 entrances and is so far away is really strong. Playing around a sniper who would be up there would be hard (without your own sniper) because there is no easy jump, or a flank route there. If you do manage to get there, then there is no way to get out alive, so its a 1 for 1 trade for the defenders either way. Its just strong in general.
    My way to fix it would be to just move the boxes next to it, the sniper would not be able to get up there and you would still have the small legde left.

    The second sight line is, in my opinion even better. Once again, the sniper can see every possibe entrance but this time, very clearly on long range. Playing around it without your own sniper would mean you risk something 100% of the time, even if you play it prefect and the other team does not.

    My way to fix this would be to make the connector look like this:
    http://imgur.com/a/Xiwxp
    you avoid creating new sight lines but still fix the problem.

    This is all my opinion, what you do with this is again up to you, but in general i like the map and it looks great
     
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  4. Yrr

    aa Yrr An Actual Deer

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    - Put up a wall to block a powerful sniper spot
    - Slightly widened balcony areas either side of point
    - Stretched high ground exit platform out a bit
    - Moved some boxes to make some jumps more possible
    - Widened underground route
    - Raised some doorways
    - Huge clipping pass, everything should be much smoother now
    - Made capzone more obvious with hazard tape
    - Various visual changes

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
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  5. Tsarbucks

    Tsarbucks L1: Registered

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    I'm ecstatic to see the support you're getting on tf.gg. Lots of people that a future version of this could/would be the second koth map in rotation. New Map Pugs has already been a huge success, and I'd like to thank you for (IMO) the best map made by someone who isn't phi or chojjie.
     
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  6. Yrr

    aa Yrr An Actual Deer

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    Most changes made in response to feedback.
    Rather than band-aid fixes, I've attempted to solve underlying issues that caused the reported problems (i.e. sightlines and openness).

    Changelog:
    - Made pipe route a straight line, fixing some sightline issues
    - Added a wall to lower Main platform blocking view of valley
    - Replaced small pipe in lower lobby with a lip and added a bigger, sloped pipe to make climbing to upper lobby easier
    - Widened valley and added some small high ground to make holding there more possible
    - Expanded rock to seperate mid and valley more, valley now cant be spammed from the point
    - Misc clipping
    - Moved some pickups in the underground route

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
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  7. Yrr

    aa Yrr An Actual Deer

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    Mostly making the underground route more appealing and viable while still being contestable.
    Also replaced the rock with geometry, allowing some jumps to be more obvious and less reliant on weird collision models.

    Changelog:
    Underground route
    - Widened Undeground route entrance, added some platforms and moved the pickups, as well as lighting it better.
    - Rotated central column 90 degrees, allowing combat longways across the underground route.
    - Added window to central column and raised obstruction for better visibility across it.
    Rock
    - Replaced rock with small house and vent to make the jumps and platforms more obvious.
    - Also improves visibility to the underground route exit.
    Misc
    - Changed some small ammopacks to medium around mid.
    - Fixed some sightlines all over.
    - Removed or raised a couple doorway arches where they interrupted rollouts.
    - Misc. visual changes.

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
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  8. Yrr

    aa Yrr An Actual Deer

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    - Removed underground route (Didn't contribute anything to the map)
    - Added larger platform in its place, moved pickups from underground to there.
    - Halved cap time
    - Enlarged capzone (Replaced the Bagel shape with a square minus two corners)
    - Lowered highest platform entrance to mid (intended to nerf sniper but might mess w/ things, trying for a version to find out)
    - Added a little hazard strip to highlight a jump in lobby

    Haven't yet addressed concerns over complexity of lobby, it's intended to facilitate forward holds and I wanna let it settle for a bit before I can determine whether/what changes need to be made.

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2016
  9. Yrr

    aa Yrr An Actual Deer

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    Been working on this since around when TotH was on; my first ever complete artpass.

    With bagel's name starting to be thrown around a bit I figured I should make the map look presentable, and I tried to give it a unique aesthetic since it's a fairly unique map.

    This is just an artpassed version of a10, the only gameplay change is the removal of access to the balcony for non-jumping classes, and the removal of a perch spot I never saw used. I will revert these changes if they prove to be poor decisions. Please tell me if I accidentally added a weird spot or blocked a rollout or something.

    I am still very open to changing and updating this map, if you have any problems with it or suggestions, please tell me and explain why you think they are a problem. Sometimes the most obvious solution isn't the best one, as it could be a symptom of a larger problem that could be better addressed.

    (also this map is not viaduct, so any issues that boil down to "it's different from viaduct" rly need a good reason to fix)

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
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  10. Lain

    aa Lain heath ledger with some dreads

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    yo just realized this map isn't viaduct, think you could make a few changes?
     
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  11. Yrr

    aa Yrr An Actual Deer

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  12. MaccyF

    aa MaccyF Notoriously Unreliable

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    so I went through and tried to lay down my thoughts on why bagel seems somewhat bland. I'm not sure how well my ideas came across, but hopefully this will help. You might need to turn your volume up a bit.



    p.s., excuse my voice - I've been drinking kind of heavily the past few days :/
     
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    Last edited: Oct 15, 2016
  13. Startacker!

    aa Startacker! Don't Know Who I Am

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    You may say it's like a bagel
     
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  14. theatreTECHIE

    aa theatreTECHIE Yet another Techie for the net...

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    On top of what Maccy said, you could also have the roofs on either side have different shapes out of bounds, like 2fort.
     
  15. Yrr

    aa Yrr An Actual Deer

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    I did originally intend to do this but after the length of time i spent trying to make just one architecturally sound second floor i gave up on that idea (plus as a comp map i need the collisions to be identical on both sides for grenade bounces and rocket splash etc)
     
  16. Yrr

    aa Yrr An Actual Deer

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  17. MegapiemanPHD

    aa MegapiemanPHD Doctorate in Deliciousness

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    After watching Maccy's video I agree with his statements on red's spawn area. The exteriors lack much in the way of depth and are mostly flat walls. The blu side has a similar problem but isn't as bad due to blu's metal textures being corrugated. Fun map though regardless.
     
  18. Yrr

    aa Yrr An Actual Deer

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    - Includes changes from "e1" version on tftv
    - Various visual improvements
    - Simplified long staircase into a ramp and removed a jutting wall
    - Lighting improvements on the mid point
    - Improved rendering around the map to hopefully raise fps
    - Added fade distances to a lot of props
    - Crow Improvements

    More changes will come from feedback later. Please let me know of any issues with the map.

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
  19. Yrr

    aa Yrr An Actual Deer

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  20. Yrr

    aa Yrr An Actual Deer

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    First, thank you so much to ozFortess, ETF2L and various pug groups for playing this map, I got so much feedback and got to watch lots of matches and it has given me tons to work with!

    I've made a few changes based on what you've said and what I've seen and hopefully they improve the way the map plays.

    Lobby exists the way it does to allow fighting to move forward, but it was tight and not so fun to play in, so I've raised the ceilings and widened the window to make it less claustrophobic and help promote options for forward holds.

    A lot of people found the lower point area kind of unsafe to be on and transitioning from there to the safer high ground in house was pretty long-winded, so I've made some changes to some of the quicker routes up to make them easier.

    I've also made various visual tweaks and quality-of-life improvements in various spots such as adding some high ground to a couple flat areas, simplifying the trash in lobby, and making the rafters over point more obviously solid.

    Changelog:
    Lobby
    - Raised ceiling, simplified walkways
    - Simplified and moved trash
    - Widened window
    - Various detailing tweaks

    Mid
    - Added extra box to pile on far left side of hill
    - Moved barrels to better facilitate climbing into house
    - Widened and simplified the small shed
    - Added metal sheets and wood shelf to rafters to visualise solidity
    - Added small boxes to house to stand on
    - Various detailing tweaks

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
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    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017