Steam Workshop Paid Mods

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Moonrat, Apr 25, 2015.

  1. Moonrat

    aa Moonrat The end of an era

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    http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontent/

    Hoh boy let's pay for our mods!

    You know that game Skyrim? Let's pay ValvEA and Bethe$da game studios to play user created mods for it! And about the supporting mod creators, ValvEA takes a 75% cut of the money. Barely anything is "supporting the mod creator".
     
  2. ades

    ades L4: Comfortable Member

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    uh oh
     
  3. Vel0city

    aa Vel0city personal pick-pocketing parrot

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    This will be quickly removed within a week. The enormous shitstorm it has caused within 2 days of it going live is something Valve wants to prevent. Unless they want to cause a shitstorm.

    Where are the times when we looked at Valve as a great example of how to do a video game studio?
     
  4. RubbishyUser

    RubbishyUser L7: Fancy Member

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    I'm not gonna lie, I think a lot of the hate is really unfounded. Let's get some facts straight. Modding is a lot of work, for, previously, very little payout. That goes down to absolutely no payout at all in a game that does not support either a Steam Workshop or has some way of content created by the community becoming official, and then they are at the complete mercy of the game creators in order to get paid.

    Still, that payout was enough to create huge, long lasting communities like TF2maps and CSGO map makers. No one will ever say that "they did it for the money" - just that it became so much more justifiable when you get paid for it.

    Sure, there will be bad mods that are overpriced pieces of crap. Looking at the paid mod selection available now, that certainly seems to be the case. But if just a handful start making DLCs (as in, paid content packs that expand the game, as in, like the official Dawnguard or Dragonborn DLCs expand the game) for Skyrim because they can make enough money off of it to be worthwhile, then they've expanded the lifetime of the game by years, even if the original makers lose interest. That's huge for Valve, it's huge for Bethesda, that's huge for the community. Valve have always been big into mods getting paid for their work - it's in their roots, from Team Fortress to Counter-Strike. This is just cutting out the middle man of being picked up by a company.

    Then there comes the question of 25% going to the mod-maker, with the remaining 75% going in some split to Valve and the game maker. As far as I'm aware, we don't know what that split is, but let me just reveal some of the overheads that I can think of that would mean that they need to take all that money:

    • Servers for downloads: this is no Peer-to-peer system, as far as I can tell. Just like the steam workshop before it, there needs to be servers coordinating and sending downloads to everyone who wants to get a mod. Previously, companies did this because they new this expanded the life of their game and increased sales long after release. By adding a cut from paid mods to their profit, they can keep the steam workshop running for longer and keep supporting their game.
    • Content curating: when mods were free, there's no such thing as a scam. You download something, and if it's not what you wanted, all you get is dissappointment. For paid mods, you can now get scammed with low quality, bug riddled mods at a high price. You need someone who's job it is to remove these mods from the workshop. They need to be paid.
    • Mod infringement: When it's for money, stealing doesn't just get you internet karma. It gets you real money. Somebody needs to put that right.
    • Actual copyright infringement: Say your modder creates a total conversion mod for Skyrim that turns swords into lightsabers and bows into blasters. That is firstly, really cool, and secondly, massive copyright infringement. If that mod was free, then Valve can just take it down after being warned by Disney (or Di$ney, as is apparently vogue right now). If there is a mod maker that got money from this, then suddenly we are talking reimbursement and that means lawyers and that means expenses. This is the biggest cost I can forsee. I'm sure some of their economics types have worked out how much they need to tax each mod to afford the lawyer costs for each one that gets copyright striked and I'd be damn well surprised if it wasn't 75%.

    What's the overheads for the modmaker? I uhh, guess their not working as much. Maybe. If they infringe copyright they might lose their money. Otherwise? 100% profit.

    Let's end with a quickfire round of commonly held misconceptions:
    1. This is the death of the Free Mod: not true. If you make something that isn't worth much, people will still download it for free. They will not download it for money. People have apparently forgotten that you can get games from Newgrounds and other sites for free, as well as proprietary sites, without paying a single dime, for YEARS.
    2. Everything will be garbage: thanks to the Greenlight system, Steam is already a place where the best free content rises to the top and eventually gets revamped and sold for money. Given more than literally two days, that will happen here.
    3. Valve censorship: OK, this one isn't cool. I mean, hysteria isn't cool either, but neither's censorship. So, great job everyone?
     
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    Last edited: Apr 25, 2015
  5. Ynders

    aa Ynders absolutely gormful

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    What?? Valve making money?!? We can't have this!! If they get their hands on money, who knows what could happen!! They might even be able to, oh, I don't know, make something new and cool! That would be TERRIBLE, wouldn't it?!?

    People who get mad because their favorite mod now costs money are shockingly similar to small children who throw a fit at the candy store because they can't get their favorite lollipop. If you liked it enough, buy it, support the modder. Who cares if most of it goes to the games companies? That modder will still be grateful for the support. And if they're not, then they can raise the price, simple as that. What I can't argue, though, is that 75% is a lot. I'd say switch around those numbers and you're golden.

    EDIT: Also the stuff Rubbishy said about infringement.
     
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  6. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    I think the major issue that a lot of people are neglecting is the impact of money on a community that has been doing what it was doing for free. Its already being seen in the skyrim modding community.

    During the MvA contest, with a 1k prize pool, THIS community was unbearable, where I cite the money as the problem. I literally almost quit doin g the contest because mostly everyone was so on edge, angry and non-helpful twats because 'oh if I help you you could get the money instead of me!'

    It was stupid and really painful to see.

    I'm not against modders making money, or getting money for their work, I'm all for it, but it needs some more work and moderation right now. Honestly I think a good temp solution is to remove the flat-fee option and make it pay-what-you-want. Since the flat fee mods seem to causing the most stir in the community.
     
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  7. Muddy

    Server Staff Muddy Muddy

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  8. PC's_Frank

    PC's_Frank L4: Comfortable Member

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    I don't think it's as bad as everyone thinks. Supporting modders is a good idea. Still, I think the process could use some adjustment. Perhaps a donation box sort of thing would be more prudent.
     
  9. HQDefault

    HQDefault L12: Fabulous Member

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    I think valve has their own ideas:


    A lot of people may think I'm just a bitchy whiny asshole. But the facts are here. Valve is banning people just for saying no to it! And look at how little the mod dev is ACTUALLY getting! If valve is banning people for negative criticism, then that means they KNOW what they are doing is wrong!

    And here's the thing: It's not "pay a little money if you want to support the dev" no, it's BUY THE MOD. The mod that you could get for FREE and what people have been DOING for free!

    It's just ridiculous, and in my opinion, it's the stupidest stunt valve has done, ever.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2015
  10. PC's_Frank

    PC's_Frank L4: Comfortable Member

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    It's painful to admit, but valve is now acting like a regular company. My only hope now is that they test out the system and reach a point where it is actually, well, good.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2015
  11. PC's_Frank

    PC's_Frank L4: Comfortable Member

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    I think I've figured it out. Valve is Darth Vader. They've fallen to the dark side. But, unlike ea or ubisoft, they're are redeemable, but only if we convince them to redeem themselves. The question now is, how do we do that?
     
  12. Muddy

    Server Staff Muddy Muddy

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    Simple. Convince them to replace the paywall with a Pay What You Want system. Then everyone wins!
     
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  13. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

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    This is exactly what I think they should do as well. Pay what you want with the option of 0. Maybe make a minimum donation amount (if they choose to donate) to make sure all parties are getting more than a fraction of a cent. Then it's up to the players to decide if they want to support modders/ developers/ Valve. Put the power back into the hands of the consumers.
     
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  14. PC's_Frank

    PC's_Frank L4: Comfortable Member

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    I like this idea. The only hard part might be convincing the publishers like bethesda to go along with this, they may end up making less money than they anticipated. However, they'll be able to maintain a positive image, which means more money in the long run. Lets hope they do this.
     
  15. takabuschik

    aa takabuschik

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    I'm not going to sell maps to anyone. Even if this update is applied to tf2.

    Yes, I am sure I invested hundreds of hours on mapping, while I could have done many other real life things. And I didn't get a single penny from it.
    I'm sure other modders for tf2 or other games invested lots of time into their mods, probably even more time. And they, just like me, would like to get some compensation for their work. And if you could rub out of it some money, it would be great, because, after all, money is money.

    And that is the problem: as soon as people find out you could get some money out of virtual things, the thing becomes infested with problems (example: idling and fake accounts as a result of hats being worth real money). Wherever there's money involved, sooner or later greediness would take control. That's what happened to lots of other companies, and it's what's about to happen to Valve. And to us modders too, if we won't be careful.

    But as upset I might sound, I'm not worried. Tf2 has always been about "free for all". The only reason to pay money in tf2 is to "be cool". No content was ever blocked from players. So if this update gets to tf2 it wouldn't really work.

    And if it will get there, well, god help us.
     
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  16. Muddy

    Server Staff Muddy Muddy

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    Pff. They have enough money already.
     
  17. PC's_Frank

    PC's_Frank L4: Comfortable Member

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    I agree, but, sadly, one of the first rules of business is to maximize profits. The best way to convince them to take up your suggestion is to show them how they could make more money in the long run.
     
  18. Bakscratch

    aa Bakscratch Finisher of Maps

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    This has really been annoying me not what Valve is doing, As I think they are one of the bravest companies to try something like this but the way people are reacting to this just makes me feel like I don't wanna be a PC gamer anymore, Its horrible how people are reacting to this all some people saying "The death of PC Gaming." Its not its huge bounding jump into a future where people can easily create content and get something for their hard work. There are plenty of legal stuff like basically using someone else's content to make money, but if more devs like Valve and Bethesda are like, We are open to people to create paid for content as it will draw more skilled and mods being a much higher final product.
    Another few points, people have been buying mods for a few years now Garry's Mod. The game requires you to have Half Life 2 and uses all of the HL2 content but there is no problem with this? but skyrim adds a 33p! (which is nothing!) and people lose their bottoms like why...
    Another one being that its been in TF2 and Dota2, ect for a while now, but not as community driven. Valve takes models from the community does almost no work and earns money and this is fine to?

    People also must remember Valve is a company, and companies do have to make money as well. They are always trying to find ways of them and the curator consumer to make money as well.
    If people stopped rushing into things and rejecting it straight away and thought about then this new system wouldn't been put down so much but brought out.

    The only problem I have the the % the creators get and maybe donation/ option to pay-what-you-like (which can sometimes do better a-la humble bundle).
     
  19. RubbishyUser

    RubbishyUser L7: Fancy Member

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    So Gabe got back from some eye operation thing and immediately started doing a reddit AMA in r/gaming and my faith in Valve is restored, even if my faith in the community is not. He's being roasted over the coals and is keeping cool and being helpful - even reversing banning and censorship that seems to have been caused by an admin over at Valve.

    I suggest skips through to find the places where Gabe has posted (or click on his name to get to his most recent comments, then use the context button to find what he's replying to.) Since many of his posts are being buried from overzealous downvoters.
     
  20. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    But there's a lot of stuff that he's saying that really is not helping at all. Dodged a lot of questions, too.

    I still stand by that Valve needs a lot more community engagement, as thats the direction the industry is heading. They don't have to do it the same way everyone else is, but spinning it to a 'valve' way of doing it would do them wonders.

    Reading through, I agree that the 'death to PC gaming' is a bit much. You're right in that people should try things out a bit more before judging, but ya' know, this is the world we live in where the first impression and delivery is basically everything. Regardless of the monetary aspect of it, the affect that even having the ability to charge a flat fee has had on the Skyrim modding community has caused a HUGE shift in their mentality and how they worked. It didn't kill the community, but it definitely has hurt it for now. It'll rebound, but some damage is done.


    @Bak: Saying that all the "death to PC gaming" talk is making you not want to be a PC gamer anymore, is basically the same thing. Jumping to a ridiculous claim with a little bit of time. You basically were the thing you hate.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2015