CP Hadal b13a

A collaborative map between Jusa and Fubar

  1. fubarFX

    aa fubarFX The "raw" in "nodraw"

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    you can m1+w out of spawn every time guaranteed. kind of a departure from the previous spawn
     
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  2. fubarFX

    aa fubarFX The "raw" in "nodraw"

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    -redesigned area connecting B to C
    -combined 2 paths leading from E into B to C connector
    -removed one path leading into upper area at E
    -redimensioned the area around E to be larger
    -many areas surrounding E have been slightly lowered to avoid unneeded height differences
    -more blue spawn detailing
    -detailing for A to B connector

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
  3. fubarFX

    aa fubarFX The "raw" in "nodraw"

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    -longer final point capture time
    -modeled last point platform
    -modeled spawn submarine
    -artpassed B to C connector
    -added soundscapes
    -reworked skybox
    -updated overview map
    -various aesthetic tweaks

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
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  4. Idolon

    aa Idolon the worst admin

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    Running into something invisible here.

    Could maybe use a better indication of which one of these is open? Maybe some mullions (or fill the solid in with an opaque material).

    Thank you for using the overhead crane in a spot in a place that makes sense. I think the room overall should have more evidence of moving stuff around though - hand trucks, more materials on pallets, etc.

    Misleading signage. A better spot would be a sign to the right above the door that leads into D.

    Clip Clip Clip

    Inconsistent handrails.

    Self-explanatory.

    The little ledge here out of the water seems like it could trip someone up in a heated situation. Making this walkable would be ideal.

    Concrete floor texture change. This looks like it could be intentional, and it's subtle enough to get away with, but I wasn't sure.
     
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  5. Jekyllson

    Jekyllson L3: Member

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    I went through the map, and I had some thoughts on improving its readability. A lot of really clever design decisions have done so much to make the map much clearer, but you can never make a Steel-like map too understandable.

    The yellow paint showing B from spawn is really dark, although I didn't play a round, so perhaps a light turns on illuminating B after A is capped.

    Hole in the roof.

    While the arrows here make it clear where A and B are, if the map beyond was rotated slightly to align the blue and yellow sections with the arrows, it would make it much more immediately obvious that C is on the opposite side; you'd be able to look at it and instantly know where C is, instead of having to study it for a few seconds. I understand if you can't or don't want to change the map, though, because it does look pretty cool, but it would definitely help players conceptualize RED as being equally accessible going either direction.

    It's obviously not a problem, but this elevator is such a cool design decision. I left BLU's spawn, saw the clearly-marked elevator, followed the wire up with my eyes, and realized that there was a second floor, thanks to the grate that lets me see the second elevator exit. Subtle signs are the best!

    This is kind of a weird room. I assume that BLU players tend to come through the door on the lower right, but if I were to do that, then I would see the door on the lower level saying "Sector C" and go through it. Nine times out of ten, I wouldn't choose to go up the stairs, because there's nothing visible from where I enter the room that tells me that I can get to Sector C by going up that staircase. That could be problematic, because you're at a pretty big disadvantage if you take the lower entrance (which places you in a waterlogged canal far below the capture point) versus if you take the upper entrance.

    You might want to add yellow piping or something to the corridor on the right here. It currently looks like a side route in comparison to the other corridor, but it seems to be just as viable a path to the point.

    This one might be a bit of a stretch, but say I'm a BLU player who caps A. I step off the point to the left and follow around the path here. The Sector C sign is very obvious when taking this path, but the Sector B sign is obscured. If I've never played the map before, then I'm going to naturally be pushed to the left instead of going to B. Again, it may sound like a bit of a stretch, but you might want to at least make a sign pointing out Sector B just as prominent as the one pointing to Sector C from this direction, if not more.

    Let's say you're on RED, and A has been capped. You need to go to B, right? Well, there's currently only exit labelled "Sector B" in RED's spawn exit, but there's a door near it that says "Exit", so maybe you take that one. You'll end up here. The fastest way to Sector B from here is to take the stairs up. If I take the stairs down, then I'll be able to see yellow piping and a Sector B sign that will guide me to Sector B, but it's a much longer route than simply taking the stairs up. From this juncture, though, there's nothing that tells me that I should take the stairs up if I'm looking for Sector B. If you added some yellow piping, lighting, or stripe, or sign somewhere on the left, then that would make the secondary route to Sector B something that you could find by following the signs, and not something you stumble upon by random luck (as I did).

    Is there meant to be glass here? There's nothing that really indicates that you aren't able to simply hop over that very small railing.

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    [EDIT] I took another stab at providing some feedback for Hadal, and I had several more thoughts. I didn't want to flood this discussion with my comments, though, so I'm adding an addendum to this one instead.

    Sector C's railings are wonky.

    You see the grate in this photo? You can easily double jump/rocket jump/sticky jump/detonator jump right next to it and look through it, but this is what you see.

    As clever and cute as this "Fuel Oil" sign is, I'm a bit concerned that most people in an actual match won't pick up on it and realize that there's a health pack if you explore this room. Not sure what you can do to make it more obvious, other than moving the health pack so it's visible from outside the room.

    I'm a bit concerned that figuring out where the point is for BLU at Sector C could be a bit challenging, depending on which route they take to the point. Entering from this side is...okay, but I still think it would benefit from some sort of indicator towards the point itself. Upon entering from this side, however, you could definitely be forgiven for missing the point entirely and heading right, as I remember myself doing a couple times during play tests. Perhaps you could put some sort of indicator on both sides of C's "tower" structure to benefit readability from both entrances?

    Say you're coming to the core from Sector A. You'll be met with this sight. If you want to go to Sector B, there's a clearly-labelled path to the left, and another to the right. The only problem is that you can't actually follow the "Sector B" line on the right unless you rocket jump or do some complex Scout double jumping through the gap in the wall under the stairwell, which is counterintuitive. There is actually a right path to Sector B if you're tenacious enough, but it requires you to take the stairwell up to the top, which, as I mentioned previously, is a route that requires you to stumble upon it by accident. Perhaps you could reroute the yellow piping from the core so it goes up and to the right, going in front of the stairwell, and finally going up to the "secret" upper route to B. That would also help RED players leaving spawn onto the stairway realize that they can take the stairs up to get to B, as I mentioned earlier. Alternatively, you could just block the "Sector B" sign from the view of the entrance to the core from Sector A, and everyone would just take the left route.

    After capturing point B, if you go to Sector A, then the sign (and entire corridor) leading to Sector C is easy to overlook, mostly because of that stack of blue barrels that obscures it when coming around the bend. I would guess that many BLU players who initially go to Sector A would end up taking the connecting route to Sector B instead of going left, not realizing that they just wasted a bunch of time by taking a longer route and also not capitalizing on BLU's potential advantage when it comes to Sector C by attacking the point from both sides at once. I personally would replace the stacked blue barrels with exploding barrels which blew up after BLU captured B, thus revealing the sign to Sector C, but there's probably a much more elegant solution that you'll use.

    You can see outside the map here.

    This blue pipe in spawn.

    I've spoken a lot about improving navigability between Sectors A, B, and C, but I also think there are a couple of routes to the core that aren't very obvious. That can be just as important, because you don't want the fight over the final point to largely consist of people running around all the corridors, unsure of where they are. The shortest route to the core (or, in RED's case, back to the core) should never be too much of a challenge to find, even though you're probably safe in holding the players' hands less when it comes to traveling between the three exterior sectors.
    • There's this small route to the core branching off of Sector B down this otherwise-unused (after B is capped) corridor that I doubt anyone would know to use. And it's not like it's being used very often to go from the core to Sector B; that requires a pretty tricky jump. I think it makes sense to have the route there, but there's no way that anyone on BLU not already intimately familiar with the map's layout would know that the core is accessible there, because there's nothing that indicates it.
    • I would also recommend adding a "Core" arrow (perhaps using white paint?) pointing to the right here, and another one pointing to the left here, so as to improve the flow of BLU players from Sector A to the Core and discouraging them from turning right to go to Sector B after already initially choosing to go left from spawn. Note, though, that for more BLU players to pick up on this, you'd still need to move/destroy that stack of blue barrels I mentioned earlier that obscure the sign to Sector C. I would suggest simply closing off that connecting tunnel from A to B once B is capped, but I imagine it's probably useful for preventing RED from pushing back into Sector B and camping it for long periods of time.
    • And to finish up, there's this surprisingly confusing room right next to point D which gives no indicator that point D is on just the other side of the wall. Say you're on RED, and you go through this doorway, ending up in this room (because you're chasing down an enemy or looking for a fight or whatever). Sometimes you'll go beyond that room, but in the simplest scenario, you take out an enemy player in that room, and that's as far as you go. Now that you've taken out your target, you need to get back to the core (or in another scenario, perhaps someone's capping D, and you just need to take the fastest path onto the point). Whatever it is, you look around; you look left, and you look right. The best choice back to point D is obviously the doorway in the right photo through which you originally came, but there's nothing that indicates that the core is that way. I'd bet you that most people would end up going down this path, which is the start of a much longer route to point D. This affects both RED and BLU, since that doorway is a very convenient entrance directly onto point D compared to going all the way around to Sector C. I would add white-painted "Core" indicators to the doorway there to make it clearer.

    That's it for serious feedback. My only other thoughts are tiny, cosmetic criticisms:
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    Looking back, I wrote much more than I expected (especially in the second round), and I apologize; I'm hopeful that I wrote enough helpful things to make up for the overall waffle. You have a truly unique map here, and I hope you make it as good as possible! I look forward to playing it as an official map someday soon ;)
     
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    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  6. fubarFX

    aa fubarFX The "raw" in "nodraw"

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