CP gothic b9

[Ezekel]

it'd be nice i think if the control point was in The Important Location Of The Control Point, not just a humble wooden platform by the stairs. it just doesn't look like a centerpiece of the area that a control point should be. stairs look more important than the cp.

what would you suggest to make the CP look more centre-piecey?

 

[Sergis]

you could move it to the top or bottom of the staircase so its aligned with room layout instead of being thrown in; or maybe just make it look more important where it is somehow. make the room look more like its built exclusively for the cp. it'd fit nicely on top of the double staircase outside current A, but thats too big a change i guess. you might also try a change like this

combining staircase and the cp

 

[Fruity Snacks]

I agree with doom, except don't put the obvious dick in the middle of the CP.

I think another place where this would pertain is in the chapel, it doesn't feel very chapel-y, nor is the point in a location that shows that its really a chapel...

 

[Ezekel]

let it not be said that i don't listen to feedback, for behold:

does that feel more capture-pointey now?



as for the chapel/pointD, I'm hoping it will look more chapelly once I actually start detailing it up a bit. I think that keeping the upper areas of the chapel darker will be an important part of this.

course I'd love to sneak in a church organ or similar, but well I don't know anyone who'd want to model something like that

 

[Sergis]

I agree with doom, except don't put the obvious dick in the middle of the CP.

it wasnt obvious to me, but now i can't unsee it

THANK YOU FROZEN

 

[Fruity Snacks]

Alright, I have some images, but I'll them later...

On A, I like the new set up, but I don't like how the entry from the courtyard is set up. The way it is now, red can stand up on the top of the stairs and have instant advantage over blu on the point, and especially from the entry from the courtyard. My suggesion is either offset the entry, or make it 2 smaller entry ways... Or just add better visibility from the courtyard to the upper stair area.


For point E, its a minor thing, but the way the supports hold up the platform it becomes very constricting for Blu to stand on, and make it easy for red to just spam off. The size of the cap area could be a tad bigger, but would work fine now. Just the downward supports from the upper part make it hard to move around whilst on the point (even when the surrounding platform is up.

 

[Ezekel]

i'll see about tweaking the approach to A, but the counter is that red have no resources up there, and have to surrender the upper area to get them.
also blue have a 2nd path to A which lets them attack from a different angle (though also doesn't have great sightlines on the upper area... ok yeh, i need to tweak that i think.

on E, i don't really wanna change the support beams as without them there's no cover on the point at all.

 

[Ezekel]

have some chapel CP D imagery:

 

[tyler]

It looks neat. A little boring. My biggest concern is how annoying it'd be to play around that and how similar it is to A.

 

[Wilson]

The small table should be against the wall, prop like that middle of platform can become major pain in the ass for players when fighting on the point.

 

[Sergis]

another suggestionpic

might or might not be better, definitely more chapely

 

[grazr]

Have you done anything to make A easier to assault? Most of the time we captured A was a result of me getting really lucky as spy and taking out 2-3 sentries at a time; but spam through the primary entrance is a real pain in the arse, and the SG position on that balcony overlooking the secondary exit is a real pain too. The tight doorways behind make it real difficult to approach from the flank, especially as spy what with all the RED player traffic and unless the engi is absent assaulting head on is mostly useless.

It'd be nice if there was more space or hidey holes in the room next to A so that spies can uncloak in cover.

 

[Ezekel]

Have you done anything to make A easier to assault? Most of the time we captured A was a result of me getting really lucky as spy and taking out 2-3 sentries at a time; but spam through the primary entrance is a real pain in the arse, and the SG position on that balcony overlooking the secondary exit is a real pain too. The tight doorways behind make it real difficult to approach from the flank, especially as spy what with all the RED player traffic and unless the engi is absent assaulting head on is mostly useless.

It'd be nice if there was more space or hidey holes in the room next to A so that spies can uncloak in cover.

i've changed the height of the flank - and blocked LOS from the balcony.
this should stop that sentry spot and give blue some more strength up there

i've also made the main path's doorway to A taller as well, this should help blue cos they can see any reds on the upper level from further away.

i'll add some space for spys to decloak in that room you mentioned too

 

[Another Bad Pun]

I ran through the map. It looks really nice, but there are some things I would like to point out. (Also, I ran through the version before this so my appalogies if some of these are already fixed.)

The main reason I think that players don't recognize the water around E as deadly at first is because at one end theres a ramp leading into it. This may be necessary after you cap point C, but its misleading at first. Maybe you should remove the ramp until C is capped.

Another way you could fix this is having the generator in this screenie spark at the top some, with some electic wires attached to it in the water.

Gasp! Not a door with disable shadows off! :O

Closed area portal, (This is supposed to happen at a far distance but I don't think the skybox was meant to appear.)

eeeewww

A hole!

The medi-beam particles around the poles make them look more dangerous than the water.

I've capped point c, yet the sign here is still red. I think some other signs have this problem as well. (I know its not a very biog problem but it just bothers me for some reason.)

Overall, great job!

 

[Ezekel]

thanks for the feedback ABP, but I've just released another version just now.

i'll work on those ones in the next vers though ^_^;;

 

[Doctor Paprika]

I've told you a few times in game that I don't like the map, but it's not because there are any real flaws in the gameplay that irk me. It's that the layout as a whole is terribly confusing.

I know a lot of this is the product of the Steel-type game mode, but even with all the signs (and there are a lot of signs) I can never "feel" where I'm going. I have to take the signs' word for it that I'm going the right way, but I have no intuitive sense that I'm getting where I need to be. With the exception of getting to A and E, everything else I seem to just bump into on accident, regardless of which team I'm on, and I honestly end up wishing it was a 2cp AD map between A and E each time I play.

I can't really make any suggestions about this because it's kind of hardwired into the entire map at this point, but from what I can tell, 90% of the negative feedback is in some way tied to the confusing layout.

 

[Harribo]

I have a pretty good understanding of how to get to every point on the map, I don't think the map is too confusing. I think it could help if the passageways to each point from E reflected the look of the point they go to like having a door like this:

to signify to door the the church point, D. It's just all the steel framed doors on the ground floor around E I find the only confusing bit.

 

[grazr]

the cloudy water kinda looks horrible in general and doesn't imply any kind of threat (As 'Pun already poitned out).

You should consider using an electrical spark, like the blue bolts as seen across exposed wires throughout the HL series. You can just use one of the lazer sprites and turn up the "noise" level in env_beam, i believe.

 

[Another Bad Pun]

You should consider using an electrical spark, like the blue bolts as seen across exposed wires throughout the HL series. You can just use one of the lazer sprites and turn up the "noise" level in env_beam, i believe.

Can't you just use a Point_tesla?

 

[Doctor Paprika]

I think it could help if the passageways to each point from E reflected the look of the point they go to.

That's kind of what I'm talking about when I say the map is confusing. It's not a total labyrinth, but I never get the sense that I'm moving from one area into another. In fact, I'll just come right out and say it: when I'm playing, I feel like the layout is there to serve the art design rather than the other way around. I don't think that's actually how you made the map, but that's how it feels when I'm going from point to point.

The main issue, for me, is that the art design is so well conceived as a conceptual whole, i.e. a gothic castle with a big Frankenstein electro-lab in the middle, that the transitions from one point to the next don't really progress in terms of art style as much as they simply shift from one setting to another (say, graveyard to chapel).

To put it another way, if you go into a real castle, that's exactly how it feels: you go through one stone hall after another and suddenly you emerge in a dining hall or a library or what have you. In most TF2 maps, though, the textures, colors, shapes, etc. all gradually change to indicate progression, and this necessarily comes into conflict with the whole idea of a castle.

Just to reiterate, I have basically the exact same problem with Steel, but the art design in your map makes even the large environments claustrophobic and I always feel like I'm just wandering aimlessly even when I know exactly where I'm going.

TLDR: I honestly really love the art design and how well you made it feel like a castle, and the map does actually play well, but I always feel lost and trapped because, ironically, it's like actually wandering around inside an old castle.