Deliverance b3

[Leminnes]

This has always bothered me when I play this map. It might be a detail but it's like a pimple I can't stop looking at:

The heck is going on with that curve? Maybe you have something planned, I dunno, but it looks super weird.

Also, I noticed that almost no one uses that small little walkway on the left.

 

[Dr. Spud]

You should be careful with the changes scaling for the player count. Changing spawn times is one thing, but adding/removing health kits sounds really obtrusive. I would hate to play the map one time and have a health kit somewhere, then play again and get killed relying on a health kit that magically disappeared.

And actually, on a broad scale I'm really not a fan of the scaling changes in the first place. Maybe you'll get it to work for this map, sure okay. But it's not going to make me like the map any more than I would in the first place. There are plenty of maps that work in 6v6 and 12v12 without scaling changes - why is this a necessary feature? To be perfectly honest, to me it seems more like an awkward patch to the problem than something I'd advertise.

Go ahead and try it - maybe you'll prove me wrong. But you've got plenty of time to make layout changes to accommodate the player count. I think you'll end up with something better in the long run if do that instead.

 

[MangyCarface]

Just spawn some sort of brush ent with the health packs to notify whether there's health in that version or not. Maybe enable/disable an overlay

 

[Shmitz]

Yeah, I intend to have things that directly advertise whether an item is available in that location once I get to detailing.

Spud: there are plenty of maps that work in 6v6 and 12v12, and they're all CP maps. CTF as a game mode just doesn't scale well due to its dynamics.

 

[Shmitz]

ALPHA 11
* Changed middle platform structure slightly.
* Moved small healths at middle to below the shacks.
* Added flanking routes around the mountain and capture areas.

[DOWNLOAD]

 

[SlayerBlitz]

The entire point of this map being invade style, or having a rolling cart for that matter, really baffles me. This map could be a great map if it just used the regular ctf style, with the cap zones also having each teams intel. Because its invade style, it confuses new players, and their is NO point for it to have a rolling cart with the intel.

The layout was good and if you decide to take out the rolling cart and make it normal, you could put a cool pit of death in the center, a massive tower, a huge meteor impact crater with a rock plateau in the center with bridges going to it, the possibilities are endless (I would go with the death pit since the cap zones are drills, awesome by the way) but the current middle just feels generic and serving no point but to have a place for the tracks.

It was good, but could be better.

 

[The Political Gamer]

The entire point of this map being invade style, or having a rolling cart for that matter, really baffles me. This map could be a great map if it just used the regular ctf style, with the cap zones also having each teams intel. Because its invade style, it confuses new players, and their is NO point for it to have a rolling cart with the intel.

The layout was good and if you decide to take out the rolling cart and make it normal, you could put a cool pit of death in the center, a massive tower, a huge meteor impact crater with a rock plateau in the center with bridges going to it, the possibilities are endless (I would go with the death pit since the cap zones are drills, awesome by the way) but the current middle just feels generic and serving no point but to have a place for the tracks.

It was good, but could be better.

No offence at all but you really need to think about this post.

1. The cart makes it easy for the the team with less point to pick up the flag and cap it.
2. The cart plays a big role in the big dynamic game play of the map, removing it would fuck over the hole layout.
3. Death pits? Really? This is Comp TF2!

When you really get down to it you are suggesting he redoes that map completely when he majority of people agree that the layout and game mode are fine the way they are!

 

[SlayerBlitz]

No offence at all but you really need to think about this post.

1. The cart makes it easy for the the team with less point to pick up the flag and cap it.
2. The cart plays a big role in the big dynamic game play of the map, removing it would fuck over the hole layout.
3. Death pits? Really? This is Comp TF2!

When you really get down to it you are suggesting he redoes that map completely when he majority of people agree that the layout and game mode are fine the way they are!

well the cart defeats any chance of defending the intel. I dont see how it would destroy the layout, I guess you have a point about death pits, but that was just a example. First thing that came to mind. I guess I never really liked invade that much, and after finding out how it worked, it would be less confusing, but still, the reason there isn't a official ctf invade map, is because it isn't as strait forward as other game modes.

I guess I was a bit harsh with that though.

 

[grazr]

I dunno, i agree that this layout seems to compliment regular ctf. Although due to the dynamics of regular ctf, it doesn't compliment comp tf2, because of player counts.

The map already suffers from the fact that moving the intel closer to the losers base makes it easier for the winning team to cap because the distance from the intel to the cap zone is dramatically decreased.

I think maybe you're thinking too much about the dynamic of allowing a team to catch up if they get behind. Because it's neutral invade style the intel is already sufficiently close to either base that grabbing it and capping it is never really a laborious task. If a team is of an equal skill level then they are bound to catch up and win some rounds. moving the intel only changes the cause of steam rolls from unbalanced teams (a player issue you cannot control, and publicly resolved by team balance server plugins) to a map design flaw.

A lot of ctf maps suffer from steam rolls when teams gain control of the centre of the map, but changing the intel spawn location along a linear path does not resolve that either.

Changing the intel location also adds confusion to players. I still get confused by CP locations in hydro depending on which round is playing.

Having too many variables to your maps gameplay, changing spawn times, changing intel location, changing health kits, will make it hard to get used to your map and for players to understand the true reality of their current situation (such as anticipating when the enemy will spawn, whether there is a health kit around the corner or not).

I would recommend at least running a second version of your map with a static intel location if you are unsure of the dynamics at work in your map. TF2 gameplay seems to work best the simpler the map rules are.

 

[MangyCarface]

The map would lose a lot if it were increased to 2 intels. It's fairly big and the gameplay would become unfocused. Map's ready to be detailed imo

 

[A Boojum Snark]

The layout was good and if you decide to take out the rolling cart and make it normal, you could put a cool pit of death in the center, a massive tower, a huge meteor impact crater with a rock plateau in the center with bridges going to it, the possibilities are endless

The dude made Meridian. With an evil spy base. On a tribal island. Inside a volcano. With a giant robot. He is well over quota for doing cool stuff for the sake of cool stuff.

 

[FreeLance_FoX]

I really enjoyed this, Shmitz. All of the areas flowed quite well, despite the expected awkwardness of dealing with the cart and some of those staircases, etc. The height variation is nice, not that there's that much straight up height but rather a lot of rolling hills and ramps, which I quite like. Even as pyro and charger demo I enjoyed every area of the map.

The only thing I might question is the access to the capture zone... it seems that those two ramps are hard to defend unless you're between them and the cap zone. Maybe a little cover along that bare area between the two ramps would be nice for sentries or a health pack spot?

 

[Sel]

Plays great, detail it and finish it up, also run some more tests, I wouldn't mind in the least :]

 

[Mr.Blob]

Played on gameday yesterday. Overall it was great.

some of you rocks just need some more clips, I got stuck on the quite alot.

 

[Shmitz]

A little experiment I'm trying:

If this doesn't play well I'll be going back to the previous mid. Either way, the next step after this is the big beta push.

 

[ScorpioUprising]

A little experiment I'm trying:

If this doesn't play well I'll be going back to the previous mid. Either way, the next step after this is the big beta push.

Wow. Now thats a significant alteration. Not sure how it'll play out, but its definitely interesting.

 

[Shmitz]

ALPHA 12
* Rotated track 90 degrees so that the cart goes to the mountains instead of the spawn buildings.

[DOWNLOAD]

 

[Randdalf]

Ooooh that's a very interesting and radical change. I can see how it would help focus flow down the percieved main route on either side.

 

[grazr]

All those planks and prop ladders still bother me. There's a chance of falling off anyway, i guess that's half the point, but that chance increases when trying to dodge bullets (which happens a lot, being in the middle), and even more when you have 130 ping. I know you can't really help, nor intentionally design a map so that it plays well for 150 ping rates; one presumes a player sensibly chooses to play on a local server, but maybe extend the clip brushes a bit more or something. So that when you come off the planks/ladders you are able to jump off the rock and back on, rather than slowly and helplessly sliding off the rocks and get picked off by straddling enemies.

There were a couple places i expected to see health and/or ammo, and found the other instead. Or, expecting a drop and finding nothing at all, whilst on the other extreme running into health and ammo unexpectadly. For example, the medium ammo pack in the tunnel that leads to the mountain pass. Everytime i expected it to be a health kit. Heh.

 

[Shmitz]

Yeah, with the reworked mid there is kind of an excess of planks, so I've been considering which ones would make sense to turn into something more substantial. For the current version, I just wanted to get the pathing in there, since it was very experimental.

Regarding the ammo in the shack: there is a health in there too. Someone else probably nabbed it first.