Deliverance b3

By Shmitz

  1. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

    Messages:
    1,129
    Positive Ratings:
    740
    Gametype: Capture the Flag (INVADE)
    Players: 12-32
    Author: Mark "Shmitz" Major
    E-mail: shmitz@gmail.com
    Version: 0.3.0

    Other credits:
    Extra track piece models by III_Demon

    INVADE
    In this CTF variant, there is a neutral flag that both teams fight over. To score a point, your team must take the flag to the ENEMY's base.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2010
  2. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

    Messages:
    1,129
    Positive Ratings:
    740
    This is probably the roughest first alpha I've released, but to my knowledge the mechanics all work. I need to make sure the gameplay works before refining it further. I'm most concerned about the possibility of people turtling in their base once they gain a lead, but I hope the risk of holding the intel so close to the opponent's capture zone balances this out.
     
  3. Acegikmo

    aa Acegikmo

    Messages:
    555
    Positive Ratings:
    489
    This is why I never started making a ctf map for this contest. I was planning to make a single-intel invade ctf map as well. Let me know if it turns out!
     
  4. Colt Seavers

    Colt Seavers L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    290
    Positive Ratings:
    81
    Looking good 8) Must admit, kind of wished I'd made an invade map after playing Boylee's entry - ctf_chicane - its an absolute blast - this game mode seems made for fast furious and teamplay rewarding w00ts! Particularly like your twist on the moving intel base. Nice.
     
  5. TheBladeRoden

    TheBladeRoden L7: Fancy Member

    Messages:
    491
    Positive Ratings:
    165
    This map makes me squeal like a pig!
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  6. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

    Messages:
    1,129
    Positive Ratings:
    740
    So I got a chance to test it today and am working on making a few changes.

    One thing that needs to get changed is the way the cart works. Right now, as soon as a team takes the lead, the cart moves until it hits the end of the line. For various reasons, this ends up being rather imbalanced, particularly when the "winning" team is only one point ahead.

    My first choice would be to make the cart only move a set amount of distance on each capture. However, I don't know how to do that without doing crazy complicated things with enabling/disabling path_tracks. Does anyone know of an easier or more elegant method of having incremental cart movement, preferably in a way that won't bug out if a capture is made while it's still moving?
     
  7. lockitup

    lockitup L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    71
    Positive Ratings:
    24
    have the cart not move whenever intel is not on it? like mangy does in atrophy?
     
  8. VelvetFistIronGlove

    aa VelvetFistIronGlove

    Messages:
    567
    Positive Ratings:
    437
    I think you'll still have to some crazy complicated things--see below, but disabling/enabling path_tracks sounds like it'll be a pain to manage and difficult to get right.

    It'd probably work better if you put a logic_relay beside each path_track where you'd want the flag to stop. The path_track should trigger its relay OnPass, and the relay in turn tells the train to stop.

    OnCapTeam1 and OnCapTeam2, you disable all these logic_relays (wildcards ftw), update the math_counter (add or subtract depending on which team scored), send the outvalue to the logic_case, which then enables the appropriate path_track.
    Also, OnCapTeam1 you'd tell the train to StartForward, but OnCapTeam2 StartBackward.


    If you aim for your track to support no more than 8 stopping points on each side (i.e. if red is beating blu by 8 or more points the cart would be right at the red end of the track), you'll only need one logic_case. Set the math_counter to start with a value 8, and the logic_case's Case01 through Case15 to have values 1 to 15.

    Number off your stopping points from 1 (the stop just before the red base end of the track), through to 8 (in the middle), then to 15 (the stop just before the blue base end of the track), give the logic_relays names with a corresponding number, then the logic_case's OnCase01 through OnCase15 will just enable the same numbered relay.

    The two endpoints of the track give you the last two stopping points, but you don't need relays there or logic_case entries since the cart will automatically stop.

    I think that's fairly simple all up: N relays, 1 counter, 1 compare, and only a handful of I/O.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2010
  9. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

    Messages:
    1,129
    Positive Ratings:
    740
    Bump for update!

    Changed the cart to incremental movement. It still will eventually end up by your capture zone if you own enough face. If this method still ends up feeling imbalanced, I have other options for the cart, but I wanted to try this first since it's what I initially wanted to do.

    Also, since the new path to the upper route required displacements, I played around with some minor detailing which you can see in screenshot #1:

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

    Messages:
    1,129
    Positive Ratings:
    740
    Today's general playtest seemed to show that the cart mechanic actually favors the winning team with a higher playercount. On the other hand, teams may have been stacked, so I think I want to try to get at least one more pub-scale test before making a conclusion there.
     
  11. MangyCarface

    aa MangyCarface Mapper

    Messages:
    1,616
    Positive Ratings:
    1,275
    This is definitely a hard problem. I was impressed with how well it worked when we played...

    I think shortening the map overall and then shortening the track length (so it ends further away from the caps) would warrant a new test.
     
  12. The Political Gamer

    aa The Political Gamer

    Messages:
    4,468
    Positive Ratings:
    1,682
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  13. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

    Messages:
    1,129
    Positive Ratings:
    740
    Someone was trying to say something about how to fix getting stuck on the cart, but they got drowned out by other people talking. I recall them saying something about a train watcher, but there IS a train watcher, so, I can't figure out what was being suggested.

    If you were that person, or otherwise have some idea what the solution is, could you please elaborate? ^_^
     
  14. TMP

    aa TMP Abuser of Site Rules

    Messages:
    948
    Positive Ratings:
    551
    That was me, and I was certain that the team_train_watcher could fix it, but if you already have one... That's wierd. Is the func_tracktrain larger than the initial model?
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  15. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

    Messages:
    1,129
    Positive Ratings:
    740
    It's smaller. Does it need to be larger?
     
  16. DaBeatzProject

    aa DaBeatzProject

    Messages:
    1,276
    Positive Ratings:
    1,091
    The func_tracktrain should be bigger, or you should disable collisions on the model. I had this problem too with koth_friction, but ravidge helped me out.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  17. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

    Messages:
    1,129
    Positive Ratings:
    740
    So I had hoped that having the cart close to the winning team's "drill platform" would give an edge to the losing team, but after a couple tests on a standard 12v12 server, I noticed two things. One, the winning team has enough players that they generally always have someone there to grab the flag. Two, the losing team never actually tries to take advantage of that situation. So I'm going to switch around the cart mechanic to take it towards the losing team, and stop just at the edge of mid as shown below:

    [​IMG]

    This actually gives an advantage to the losing team as they can easily take the flag up to the higher ground of the side route. The winning team, on the other hand, has to use the riskier low route or backtrack to get to the higher ground.
     
  18. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

    Messages:
    1,129
    Positive Ratings:
    740
  19. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

    Messages:
    1,129
    Positive Ratings:
    740
    Known bug: Flag caps increase the score by 2.

    I think this is because I have to manually increase the main score by 1 with each cap or when the time runs out it thinks it's stalemated. I'm hoping this will be fixable when user requested functionality gets pushed out. Until then, it doesn't have much actual gameplay significance. If someone wins by 2 they still would have won by 1. :)
     
  20. Kireas

    Kireas L1: Registered

    Messages:
    14
    Positive Ratings:
    9
    What I last said. I didn't notice if the intel respawned instantly or not, but that would solve the issue of a player running unkilled (via bonk or the targe) from the cap to the now-closer flag.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1