- Thread starter EArkham
- Start date
Godslayer57
aa
- Sep 1, 2009
- 573
- 323
Visually, it looks like it should be in a museum. I don't want to fire anything in game or spill blood anywhere...
Guess that means I'll have to pull off some clean headshots.
B1 Changes:
* Added cubemaps
* Added soundscapes
* Fully detailed
* Delayed one-way door closing time by 0.75 seconds to help avoid hitting people as it closes
* Fixed issue with announcer not saying "Time has been added"
* Adjusted health pack placement, removed a couple of excessive health packs
* Added a lot more playerclipping
* Replaced much of the complicated brush geometry with models
* Optimized use of custom content
An important note! The lighting is not at all final. There are many places with awful lighting. And there's no skybox, which is painfully obvious in several areas.
Tree models also need to be rebuilt and retextured, which will include those iconic root/vine clusters you see in Cambodian ruins. The map is starting to get visually cluttered however, so I don't think I'll do much more than hint at the vines when they're finally placed.
Gameplay & balancing is still the focus for the map, but at least now it's dev-texture free so I can hopefully get it tested on more servers.
File size trivia:
* Fresh compile: 34 MB
* Cubemaps built: 40 MB
* Custom content packed: 64 MB
* BZIP: 32 MB
Guess that's not so bad for a map with a new theme, but hitting 60+ MB makes me cry inside when I think about folks downloading it from a server.
Let me know if there's anything wrong with the download! I'll be out of town until tomorrow night unfortunately so if there is a problem, I won't be able to fix it until I get back.
* Added cubemaps
* Added soundscapes
* Fully detailed
* Delayed one-way door closing time by 0.75 seconds to help avoid hitting people as it closes
* Fixed issue with announcer not saying "Time has been added"
* Adjusted health pack placement, removed a couple of excessive health packs
* Added a lot more playerclipping
* Replaced much of the complicated brush geometry with models
* Optimized use of custom content
An important note! The lighting is not at all final. There are many places with awful lighting. And there's no skybox, which is painfully obvious in several areas.
Tree models also need to be rebuilt and retextured, which will include those iconic root/vine clusters you see in Cambodian ruins. The map is starting to get visually cluttered however, so I don't think I'll do much more than hint at the vines when they're finally placed.
Gameplay & balancing is still the focus for the map, but at least now it's dev-texture free so I can hopefully get it tested on more servers.
File size trivia:
* Fresh compile: 34 MB
* Cubemaps built: 40 MB
* Custom content packed: 64 MB
* BZIP: 32 MB
Guess that's not so bad for a map with a new theme, but hitting 60+ MB makes me cry inside when I think about folks downloading it from a server.
Let me know if there's anything wrong with the download! I'll be out of town until tomorrow night unfortunately so if there is a problem, I won't be able to fix it until I get back.
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Awesome. Love the theme, good to see some well done ruins that aren't Egypt. (Egypt is a cool theme but it spreads thin fast due to yellow everywhere).
Also love the fact that you built spytech bases in, something Egypt completely missed out on.
Also love the fact that you built spytech bases in, something Egypt completely missed out on.
I found this map really frustrating at first.
The map is linear in it's rush route in that scouts always beat the other classes. In fact in 3 rounds i managed to cap the middle CP before i was even attacked. I don't know whether that was on purpose because the other team heald back to charge uber or something. But there was no huge battle at mid like there usually is.
The spawn times seemed rather large. Once i had to wait 22 seconds after capping mid, ontop of the death cam sequence.
Alternative routes were nice, but little to no cover was provided when coming out to assault any one location. Sticky traps could all too easily bulwark a flank exit. In fact this was a big problem. Alternative routes were tiny and easily spammed/camped whilst the primary routes seemed convoluted and winding even if large. The 1 way gateat CP2 was too easily camped from the point also.
CP3 was easily flanked and ninja'd presumably due to the relatively long travel times making it hard to reinforce from either freshly spawned players or players attacking CP2/4. CP2 was incredibly hard to counter attack. It saw the most action as you might see from the demo. The corridors were easily camped and counter attackers had to fight an uphill struggle, constantly at a disadvantage. Despite this CP1 was incredibly easy to defend. Although there was a general lack of health it was too easy to defend the point from the protection of retreating into the spawn room and resupplying from the locker and getting back to your "post" in a matter of 3 or so seconds. Making it hard for attackers to complete the round.
The map is linear in it's rush route in that scouts always beat the other classes. In fact in 3 rounds i managed to cap the middle CP before i was even attacked. I don't know whether that was on purpose because the other team heald back to charge uber or something. But there was no huge battle at mid like there usually is.
The spawn times seemed rather large. Once i had to wait 22 seconds after capping mid, ontop of the death cam sequence.
Alternative routes were nice, but little to no cover was provided when coming out to assault any one location. Sticky traps could all too easily bulwark a flank exit. In fact this was a big problem. Alternative routes were tiny and easily spammed/camped whilst the primary routes seemed convoluted and winding even if large. The 1 way gateat CP2 was too easily camped from the point also.
CP3 was easily flanked and ninja'd presumably due to the relatively long travel times making it hard to reinforce from either freshly spawned players or players attacking CP2/4. CP2 was incredibly hard to counter attack. It saw the most action as you might see from the demo. The corridors were easily camped and counter attackers had to fight an uphill struggle, constantly at a disadvantage. Despite this CP1 was incredibly easy to defend. Although there was a general lack of health it was too easy to defend the point from the protection of retreating into the spawn room and resupplying from the locker and getting back to your "post" in a matter of 3 or so seconds. Making it hard for attackers to complete the round.
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One thing I noticed visually that I think could be improved (sorry, no screens).
On point 2&4 there are stone doorways. They are grey like surrounding rocks, and very thin. I'd say thicken them up and use the yellow rock tex that is on some walls on the way to mid point. (big yellow bricks staggered by grey bricks)
On point 2&4 there are stone doorways. They are grey like surrounding rocks, and very thin. I'd say thicken them up and use the yellow rock tex that is on some walls on the way to mid point. (big yellow bricks staggered by grey bricks)
@grazr: Heh! This is opposite of what I was hearing from versions A1-A3: that the mid point was too spammy because everyone crashed together at the same time, and that CP1 capped too fast and was too small to defend easily. I didn't make any gameplay changes on CP1 or CP3 so getting completely opposite feedback is... surprising and a little frustrating, lol.
CP2 being hard to retake is about what I expected however, but I didn't want to change anything radically from A3 before getting feedback. I've already got some changes in mind for B2.
@Sgt Frag: By "yellow," do you mean the yellow lichen bricks like those on the rooftop of the upper righthand corner of this screenshot? Those doors are models, btw, but I'll keep that in mind. The lighting on those models is already bad, but I'll probably wait until gameplay is more solid before I mess with it.
Still need to watch the demo.
CP2 being hard to retake is about what I expected however, but I didn't want to change anything radically from A3 before getting feedback. I've already got some changes in mind for B2.
@Sgt Frag: By "yellow," do you mean the yellow lichen bricks like those on the rooftop of the upper righthand corner of this screenshot? Those doors are models, btw, but I'll keep that in mind. The lighting on those models is already bad, but I'll probably wait until gameplay is more solid before I mess with it.
Still need to watch the demo.
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Yeah, I think that's the one, though it's hard to see in that shot.
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From the gameday, the first 2 rounds were a roll. I think we had several scouts, I was one and I went for it. I think the other team was just unprepared, at least first round.
Point 2 was hard to take back, but they had an engie set-up and about the time I got the gun down someone ninja'd the last point. But it was quite a fight on the mid point during the last round and it went back and forth a bit.
I thought it played pretty well and wish I could offer better critiques, but I have only played it the one time. Probably need two to three good playtests before I could offer any advice on changing anything.
That one way door onto point 2 is probably the worst spot in the map imo. Maybe you can work in a 90* door (to the left of where it is now).
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From the gameday, the first 2 rounds were a roll. I think we had several scouts, I was one and I went for it. I think the other team was just unprepared, at least first round.
Point 2 was hard to take back, but they had an engie set-up and about the time I got the gun down someone ninja'd the last point. But it was quite a fight on the mid point during the last round and it went back and forth a bit.
I thought it played pretty well and wish I could offer better critiques, but I have only played it the one time. Probably need two to three good playtests before I could offer any advice on changing anything.
That one way door onto point 2 is probably the worst spot in the map imo. Maybe you can work in a 90* door (to the left of where it is now).
Oh, i said cap times were long when i meant spawn times. I edited the post to say what i meant.
I think the problem lies in the fact that the flanking routes are miles out of the way. You have to cross a large portion of unused map space in order to get to a flanking route (both when attacking CP2 and CP3 as defenders). It was fine to rocket/sticky jump across the large open space, and flanking as soldier was fun, but the trouble was that you never had any support unless you ambushed an attack in progress instead of just back capping, because nobody else wanted to sacrifice that amount of travel time when they could just rush against the main force attacking CP2 instead of risking wasting their time running about only to get stuck behind a sticky trap/pyro ambush.
Basically you just need to encourage players to use certain unused spaces more (around CP2 mostly) which will hopefully allow players to notice alternative routes more easily, rather than just laying traps at them because occasionally they get attacked from there because the route is more noticable from the other side (IE from mid where the route is less out of the way of the path taken from the forward spawn by attackers).
I think the problem lies in the fact that the flanking routes are miles out of the way. You have to cross a large portion of unused map space in order to get to a flanking route (both when attacking CP2 and CP3 as defenders). It was fine to rocket/sticky jump across the large open space, and flanking as soldier was fun, but the trouble was that you never had any support unless you ambushed an attack in progress instead of just back capping, because nobody else wanted to sacrifice that amount of travel time when they could just rush against the main force attacking CP2 instead of risking wasting their time running about only to get stuck behind a sticky trap/pyro ambush.
Basically you just need to encourage players to use certain unused spaces more (around CP2 mostly) which will hopefully allow players to notice alternative routes more easily, rather than just laying traps at them because occasionally they get attacked from there because the route is more noticable from the other side (IE from mid where the route is less out of the way of the path taken from the forward spawn by attackers).
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*Cracks knucles, polishes screenshotting key*
I hate it when metal/wood just goes into rock. Nobody else does, so take this one as a personal quirk if you want.
That's really quite deep.
Torches, torches, everytime i looks there are more torchestheyreallaroundmeiseethemwheniclOSEMYEYESAAAAAA THE TORCHES.
A few less would be nice.
Something up there would be good.
Shadow bugs.
Very Pink. (I could make a joke about how the map isnt actually any good, you just create a "Rose-tinted spectacles" effect, but i'm too tired.)
That staircase isnt playerclipped. (It's blue twin is, though)
The textures on the doorframes dont align.
That rail has ideas 8hu above its station.
Door stayed open.
Hope there's something in there you didnt already know about!
I hate it when metal/wood just goes into rock. Nobody else does, so take this one as a personal quirk if you want.
That's really quite deep.
Torches, torches, everytime i looks there are more torchestheyreallaroundmeiseethemwheniclOSEMYEYESAAAAAA THE TORCHES.
A few less would be nice.
Something up there would be good.
Shadow bugs.
Very Pink. (I could make a joke about how the map isnt actually any good, you just create a "Rose-tinted spectacles" effect, but i'm too tired.)
That staircase isnt playerclipped. (It's blue twin is, though)
The textures on the doorframes dont align.
That rail has ideas 8hu above its station.
Door stayed open.
Hope there's something in there you didnt already know about!
Moose
L6: Sharp Member
- Nov 4, 2009
- 312
- 616
Hey, the map looks great, and I love all the custom stuff you have, but the detailing itself feels REALLY lazy.
Here's an example recycled from the previous post (hope you don't mind, swordfish):
pretty much that entire room feels like a box, and keeping all the walls flat and even isn't doing much to make it interesting. You should be adding more detail nooks, focus on changing the walls and areas that feel flat and boring. Also, maybe you should totally demolish a couple of the outer walls and replace them with fences or something, so people can see into the 3dsky more easily once it's implemented.
Of course, you seem to want to work on the layout still, so I'm sorry if this is stuff you're already planning on changing later.
Here's an example recycled from the previous post (hope you don't mind, swordfish):
pretty much that entire room feels like a box, and keeping all the walls flat and even isn't doing much to make it interesting. You should be adding more detail nooks, focus on changing the walls and areas that feel flat and boring. Also, maybe you should totally demolish a couple of the outer walls and replace them with fences or something, so people can see into the 3dsky more easily once it's implemented.
Of course, you seem to want to work on the layout still, so I'm sorry if this is stuff you're already planning on changing later.
Oh, I did remember one issue.
At least one of the one way gates has wrong trigger type. Should probably be OnEndTouchAll, a scout ran through it, it opened, a demo almost got through and it closed. Then a pyro ran into the trig area and I had to talk both players out of the trigger area so we could open it and get out.
At least one of the one way gates has wrong trigger type. Should probably be OnEndTouchAll, a scout ran through it, it opened, a demo almost got through and it closed. Then a pyro ran into the trig area and I had to talk both players out of the trigger area so we could open it and get out.
Yup, gonna save those sorts of tweaks for later after gameplay is settled. That side room is called the "Garden" in my visgroups, so that's what I have planned for it: a stone garden. But for now I'm leaving it boxy because I expect it's one of the areas that might have to change the most.
Thank you both, though, this is good stuff for later when I am ready to dive into fixing shadows, lighting, etc.
Just finished watching the demo. First battle I'm going to just discard. Lot of people stopping to look at stuff or type feedback. That's good in its own way, but meant the battle didn't play out very well or very realistically IMO.
But the last battle seemed to go very nicely. Lots of nice back & forth, though it was focused more on CP2 than CP3.
That one way door is still being a POS though, and not yet decided what to do about that.
It IS using OnEndTouchAll. It just had a delay on it cause I had earlier feedback that it was closing to fast on people. And yeah, it's that same damned oneway door anyway, lol.
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New version B2 is up:
B2 Changes
* Additional minor path from CP3 -> CP2
* Increased size of primary exit/entrance from CP1 -> CP2 by doubling openings
* CP1: Increased cap time to 3 seconds
* CP1: Shifted drill & control point forward
* CP1: Lowered sentry deck to reduce height advantage
* CP1: Moved tertiary entrance closer
* CP1: Reduced overall width slightly
* CP1: Areaportalwindow on spawn
* CP2: Increased cap time to 12 seconds
* CP2: Changed size, shape and cover of the actual point
* CP2: Changed some health placement/size
* CP2: Addressed logic on one-way door
* CP3: Increased cap time to 22 seconds
* CP3: Fixed non-solid trees
Mechanically, I dunno what to do if the one-way door still doesn't open reliably as it's the exact same setup as on cp_dustbowl. Doublechecked many times now.
Strategically, I'm hoping the other changes to cover, placement, and health at CP2 and additional opening from CP1->CP2 will help fix the issue of it being difficult to retake.
Again, lighting is still daft and will remain so until gameplay gets a bit more solid.
B2 Changes
* Additional minor path from CP3 -> CP2
* Increased size of primary exit/entrance from CP1 -> CP2 by doubling openings
* CP1: Increased cap time to 3 seconds
* CP1: Shifted drill & control point forward
* CP1: Lowered sentry deck to reduce height advantage
* CP1: Moved tertiary entrance closer
* CP1: Reduced overall width slightly
* CP1: Areaportalwindow on spawn
* CP2: Increased cap time to 12 seconds
* CP2: Changed size, shape and cover of the actual point
* CP2: Changed some health placement/size
* CP2: Addressed logic on one-way door
* CP3: Increased cap time to 22 seconds
* CP3: Fixed non-solid trees
Mechanically, I dunno what to do if the one-way door still doesn't open reliably as it's the exact same setup as on cp_dustbowl. Doublechecked many times now.
Strategically, I'm hoping the other changes to cover, placement, and health at CP2 and additional opening from CP1->CP2 will help fix the issue of it being difficult to retake.
Again, lighting is still daft and will remain so until gameplay gets a bit more solid.
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Doh, triple post, derp derp.
I'm rethinking control point 2/4. Possibly the changes I made to B2 are too subtle and won't have the intended effect.
Currently, it looks like this:
In this pic, you can see the size & shape of the capture area; you can't capture the point and cover the one-way door area at the same time. But aside from health pack placement, there's little reason to use the "southern" parts of the area.
What I'm pondering for B3 is something like this:
With the CP having less cover from the "south," it spreads out the activity a little more. Downside being losing a couple of good sentry spots.
Could be totally wrong, though... maybe B2 will play out fine as is. But this is what I'm seriously considering for B3.
I'm rethinking control point 2/4. Possibly the changes I made to B2 are too subtle and won't have the intended effect.
Currently, it looks like this:
In this pic, you can see the size & shape of the capture area; you can't capture the point and cover the one-way door area at the same time. But aside from health pack placement, there's little reason to use the "southern" parts of the area.
What I'm pondering for B3 is something like this:
With the CP having less cover from the "south," it spreads out the activity a little more. Downside being losing a couple of good sentry spots.
Could be totally wrong, though... maybe B2 will play out fine as is. But this is what I'm seriously considering for B3.
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I kinda like how your second pic looks, I missed this on gameday, but from the screenie, Pic 2 would be a bit more "fun" looking... probably balance wise too.
Game flow seemed much better in today's playtest. Still think I'll try the CP2 tweak for B3 however. If it doesn't work, it's as easy as swapping out visgroups again.
Here's how I'm doing the torches.
Angled clipbrushes so players "bounce" off them. It works fine in the straight hallways, but in the smaller hallways/tunnel, people are reporting they still get stuck on them.
Question: How jarring would it be if I simply made all the torches non-solid? Would be the simplest solution. Bear in mind the torches will hurt you a bit (just like the Egypt ones).
Here's how I'm doing the torches.
Angled clipbrushes so players "bounce" off them. It works fine in the straight hallways, but in the smaller hallways/tunnel, people are reporting they still get stuck on them.
Question: How jarring would it be if I simply made all the torches non-solid? Would be the simplest solution. Bear in mind the torches will hurt you a bit (just like the Egypt ones).
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