CP Antiquity B18

[grazr]

Yea, the clip doesn't need to encompass the entire prop, a players physics box is much larger than the player model so you only need a little clip to simulate the presence of the torches. No collision should be fine and trigger hurt is just annoying more than serving any real function or aesthetic. With no collision they can't be clip-exploited.

Also, where you have the "attacker major" you have that mini cliff thing. That was a bastard walking over and getting stuck in the pit below. Define the walkable and non-walkable parts more. It'll probably look better too.

 

[EArkham]

The trigger_hurt stuck out a bit from the clip, so it was still possible to get tagged by it. But fair point, clipping & trigger_hurt are at odds with one another. Removing both will reduce my entdata and brush totals anyway.

Second question: the one-way route out of CP1. That's there because in the early playtests folks considered that route for attackers to be too strong. Now they're saying it's too easy to defend CP1 since there's only one way to go in with a height advantage.

So which is preferable? Height advantage to defenders or removing that door? Thinking I may yank the door and see what happens.

 

[grazr]

I really wanna say keep the door but make it 2 way so the advantage isn't pressed by any particular team, both can utilise it and both can set traps. But, i know how much players, particularly comp players, hate doors for that very reason.

 

[EArkham]

Working on replacing the old crappy trees with better models:

This particular one replaces this one, which really shows off how crummy the old ones were.

 

[Fruity Snacks]

I want this pack

(please)

 

[EArkham]

Hm, yeah, okay. I'll release the trees soon as I get them done.

Likely B3 will be released before they're all done however.

 

[Mr. Happy]

That clipped of CP you are considering changing was the only weak point of the map in my opionion and I fully support that change.

 

[EArkham]

Updated to B3:

* Cap times reduced slightly (CP3 = 20, CP2 = 11, CP1 = 2)
* Removed one-way gates
* Shifted placement of CP2, changed cover & access
* Moved health & ammo at CP3->CP2 to encourage sideroute usage
* Replaced spire at mid with model
* Made all torches non-solid
* Updated all trees
* Assorted lighting fixes
* General visual cleanup here & there
* Updated soundscape

Re: the one way gates. If removing them unbalances the CP2->CP1 dynamic too much, I can restore them easily (they're simply in a visgroup of their own).

Still missing one set of the trees -- see that spot on CP2 with the missing bricks on the cliffwall? That'll have a tree/root cluster there in the final version.

[Edit] Oh, and skybox is still not done. Hoping I'll do that in the next pass/version.

[Edit Part 2]

Also, where you have the "attacker major" you have that mini cliff thing. That was a bastard walking over and getting stuck in the pit below. Define the walkable and non-walkable parts more. It'll probably look better too.

Dammit, forgot to fix that. :\ Ok, for B4 then.

 

[waxpax]

We pugged your map tonight. Seemed a little big and some people complained about all the stuff you could get caught on, either while moving or jumping. Everyone really liked the look of the map, it might need some changes for 6s, though.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21561105/New Map PUGS/20110305-0152-cp_antiquity_b3.7z

We recorded the comms of both teams and tried to get the discussion afterwards, I'll post those tomorrow as I'm waiting to receive the other team's comms.

Edit: we also found that you can hide an entire character model in the columns on 2:



Edit: mumble recordings: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21561105/New Map PUGS/antiquity.7z

 

[EArkham]

Some modest improvements to CP1/5:

New version (B4) as soon as I get the skybox done. Various issues previously reported (since as the scoot in the column!) have been fixed.

 

[EArkham]

B4 Released:

* Removed one of the entrances to CP1/CP5
* Additional clipping to several areas
* Reduced size of sideroute from CP2/CP4 to Mid
* Various lighting improvements
* Added skybox
* General aesthetic improvement
* Optimization to compensate for added detail

Getting closer and closer to a release candidate.

 

[CafeineMan]

Lovely map, but it's too, too big ! The distance between each point is really too far... Good map for scoot not for the other class, unfortunately....
You need to make each point closer to the other and the map will be more playable for all ! :thumbup1:
It could be a very good map with that kind of changes !

 

[EArkham]

Doing some work on B5 today. I'm actually very happy with how this map plays on a full server (9v9 or 12v12), so I've been somewhat hesitant to change the size. Most of the comments about the map being too large came from the 6v6 competitive crowd, and since they weren't really my target audience I didn't put a whole lot of thought into shrinking the time to mid. One of my big concerns with reducing the size was that I thought scouts would be able to rush all the points with no time to stop them.

But today I did a little math. Heavy moves at 230 hammer units, scout moves at 400.

Heavy takes 5.21 seconds to cross 1200 hammer units. Scout takes 3 seconds.

Reducing that distance by 230 hammer units (970 HU) means Heavy now takes 4.21 seconds to cross it -- a nice 1 second reduction. But scout only benefits by 0.6 seconds(!).

So reducing the size of cp_antiquity actually will NOT mean that scouts will be able to rush the next point -- it helps the slow classes more than it'll benefit scouts. I know that may not seem very exciting, but that was a minor revelation to me.

Long story short, I'm shaving off some of the distance in B5. If memory serves, heavy takes 23 seconds to reach mid on cp_badlands and 26 seconds on cp_antiquity. My goal is to make cp_antiquity take only 24 seconds.

Iunno when the compile will be ready. May take awhile for me to figure out where the best spots are to shave off the distance (need to reduce it by a total of 690 HU) without affecting the attack/defense dynamics of the CPs.



PS - also removing that large health kit between CP1->CP2

 

[evanonline]

Oh wow, this is gorgeous.

THAT DRILL, man. I've been waiting to see that get used forever. I'll need to play this later.

 

[CafeineMan]

We play on a 26 slot server ...and it's the usual comment of all players.
I never play scout, but on this map, I do (I prefer heavy normally and i'm a huge fan of 5CP - fastlane is the best map of all for me ! -).
But you do what you want... we'll test the B5

 

[waxpax]

I'm interested to see how your wizardry of shrinking the map turns out as the size of this map was a big factor in us not trying to pug it again. I'll probably be able to pug it again if your experiment works out.

 

[EArkham]

It's not really an experiment, just shaving off units where I can. I don't expect it to impact anything other than time to mid (and to a lesser extent, time from one point to the next).

I guess 3 seconds is a really big deal to the comp/pug crowd? Heh.

It's time consuming since the boundaries between the areas are odd shapes, so I've got to do it brush by brush. Plus I'm working on another map. As it is, I've already shaved off 256ish units or thereabouts... the remainder is the trickiest part though.

 

[Rizz]

I convinced some of my buddies at Alpha Omega to host this map and we played it for awhile; however, before the server got active, me and my admin buddy took a gander at the level design. Here are our thoughts, and suggestions.

Um... huh? lol
Settings an object like this up against glass is never a good idea because it defeats the purpose of the glass which is to see through it to the other side. However, setting it within the glass just raises my eyebrows.
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/560908400659817530/6F7DDB9DFC44407E310630D5DC5E5ABDDC70BD89/

First thing is first, and it's the placement of the two ammo cabinet locations within the beginning spawn points. I'm not talking about the screenshot above, but instead talking about how it affects Engineers who build at the beginning of the game and then later move their buildables. I suggest moving them closer to the doors.

Lava could be animated, and could be applied on a displacement to make it seem as if the lava were moving.
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/560908400659820558/5AD840C25D5591B0B95600FF829784373AA0144D/
I just so happen to have an animated Lava vtf/vmt for you that would look perfect for that area!
http://www.mediafire.com/?feaiwd230r3otp8

Whether or not this block placement is intentionally climbable to the top of this platform is unknown, but it is and it's a bit difficult because of the platform at the top. Please consider fixing this area so people can jump from block-to-block easier.
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/560908400659822102/041A2CBBD281F29B2FF189F1B26F1D32F9914289/

There are two points you can get up to the second floor. One on the left being the stairs, and the second is by jumping up a series of boxes and a block or two. The second floor needs more cover for people who're jumping up to this area; otherwise, it won't be used because you'll get killed to easily because you're out in the open.
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/560908400659814150/F710CE1C0021077B471263283C89C181453343D4/

Currently, this area is unoccupied and probably never will because it proves little to no cover. It could be a great place for Engineers or Snipers, but it's just to open. By providing a little cover wall (No roof to this wall), it'll be used more. Those who may uses this spot aren't invulnerable as well, you could lob a few grenades from the demoman, or a rocket or two to get rid of those dirty campers. Jokes aside, it's a great location that will never be used unless touched up for cover a little.
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/560908400659815733/8125EB3B0839319176FC915F546D9A57667867EF/

This map seems very Scout oriented because of all the jump possibilities, this spot is no exception. It's a really well placed spot if you have a talented engineer who can jump mid-air and land a teleporter on the side before falling.
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/560908400659811868/374A3BD22DEBB079D96678C26D740E40D2910887/

The following is either a game-breaking, or epic win. You choose.
Where my cross hair is placed could be a window. Directly behind this wall is the middle area (See screenshot above this). It's a prime place for snipers, yet doesn't make them invulnerable to other classes. With all the open areas on the map, this may help balance it. The gameplay is balanced on this map for the most part, it's just a very open map and there aren't a lot of places for snipers.
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/560908400659818975/84A6D0FBED6AA0D600347F92D16E830C0463B90F/

This little spot that I mentioned above really irked almost everyone who played and ultimately made them ignore this jump completely. It's too difficult to jump to that ledge.
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/560908400659824178/0301CB61C55680FBD0DCA1132796CB812F9855B7/




Our overall impression of this map was that we both could see this map being accepted as a Valve official piece, although it's still beta for a reason. It had really solid gameplay, although lacked cover in obvious spots; some of which were to difficult to access by means talked about above. A lot of us also found it very disorienting when you captured an area, died, and respawned in a different area. Once exiting, you had to get your barrings. It was especially annoying for Engineers with teleporter entrances.
The map is beautiful, well place props and great level design. You don't see a lot of maps with this much detail, such as buildings outside the map specifically meant to add to the detail that the map provides.

P.S, if you're ever looking for a props modeler, I wouldn't mind. Hit me up via PM if you're wanting to see some of the stuff I've made in 3DS Max.

 

[EArkham]

Thanks for the comments. I'll try to incorporate some of the suggestions in B5.

A few quick comments tho:

Dunno why that supply cabinet is turned so strangely... it's not doing that in my version of the map. Little confused as to what could possibly create a difference like that. Are the other supply cabinets turned oddly?

Not only is the lava purposely non-animated, but it's low res. Animated textures spike my FPS and since the last point is already a touch sluggish in B4, I didn't want to add to it for an area that wasn't likely to be viewed closely or seen clearly through the grates.

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/560908400659815733/8125EB3B0839319176FC915F546D9A57667867EF/

That spot was just intended for demos & soldiers, hence the little health pack for after a rocket jump. Any other use is incidental IMO. But I may add a few blocks for some cover.

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/560908400659811868/374A3BD22DEBB079D96678C26D740E40D2910887/

An engineer might be able to get there with a dispenser assisted jump as well, though I haven't tested if it's possible. Not a problem if he does IMO, not a whole lot of cover there to stop long distance sniping/rockets.

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/560908400659822102/041A2CBBD281F29B2FF189F1B26F1D32F9914289/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/560908400659814150/F710CE1C0021077B471263283C89C181453343D4/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/560908400659824178/0301CB61C55680FBD0DCA1132796CB812F9855B7/

All that will be fixed/addressed in B5

 

[Rizz]

Have you considered this?

The following is either a game-breaking, or epic win. You choose.
Where my cross hair is placed could be a window. Directly behind this wall is the middle area (See screenshot above this). It's a prime place for snipers, yet doesn't make them invulnerable to other classes. With all the open areas on the map, this may help balance it. The gameplay is balanced on this map for the most part, it's just a very open map and there aren't a lot of places for snipers.
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/56...E830C0463B90F/

None of the other cabinets were turned that I noticed; however, you should consider moving them closer to the exits of the spawn room.