Unlimited Detail Tech blahblah

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Fraz, Aug 1, 2011.

  1. Fraz

    aa Fraz Blu Hatte, Greyscale Backdrop.

    Messages:
    944
    Positive Ratings:
    564
    • Thanks Thanks x 5
  2. Another Bad Pun

    Server Staff Another Bad Pun over my dead body

    Messages:
    583
    Positive Ratings:
    1,201
    have fun animating this
     
  3. AgeNt_

    AgeNt_ L5: Dapper Member

    Messages:
    237
    Positive Ratings:
    63
    games are not all about graphics. its about gameplay. who cares if the game looks great if it plays like poo.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 4
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2011
  4. HellJumper

    aa HellJumper

    Messages:
    812
    Positive Ratings:
    373
    It's definitely impressive, but I just feel like this will take a lot more time than normal. The guy said it himself: it took them a whole year-- to make 1 island map.

    It seems to have a lot of potential, though.
     
  5. Sergis

    aa Sergis L666: ])oo]v[

    Messages:
    1,871
    Positive Ratings:
    1,131
    cool voxels bro
     
  6. Godslayer57

    Godslayer57 L8: Fancy Shmancy Member

    Messages:
    573
    Positive Ratings:
    221
    But that potential depends upon many factors and also it would be bad if this increased game development time...you know why.

    In retrospect this is just blurring the line between fact and fiction which recent movies have already done countless times. For example look at POTC3. The scene in which one character fights another on top of a mast, you can't tell the difference between the digital camera swing then it's transition into a real camera swing.
     
  7. Da_Man

    Da_Man L4: Comfortable Member

    Messages:
    173
    Positive Ratings:
    38
    As a proof of concept, yeah its cool.

    In practicality, why the fuck do you need to render every single grain of sand separately? Does being able to render down to the atomic level really add anything to a game besides a longer loading screen?
     
  8. BrokenTripod

    BrokenTripod L5: Dapper Member

    Messages:
    248
    Positive Ratings:
    65
    I wonder if they plan on doing physics at all with this?

    I suppose you could do it the same as they do it now with a really simplified collision box, but is the engine capable of making all these atoms rotate easily?
     
  9. owly-oop

    aa owly-oop im birb

    Messages:
    817
    Positive Ratings:
    1,154
    In the video description they said they would show animation later. There are some videos of animation like this one

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF8A4bsfKH8

    It's really stupid how a bunch of people are bashing this
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 5
  10. What Is Schwa

    What Is Schwa L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    375
    Positive Ratings:
    220
    If this is true, doesn't it also imply an end to the graphics hardware wars? Huzzah!
     
  11. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

    Messages:
    5,436
    Positive Ratings:
    3,564
    If you actually listen to what they're saying, they're saying that this increases performance. On basic machines they're running 20 FPS on a near infinite amount of objects.

    Yes, rendering at this level is kind of redundant since even with polygons we get reasonable levels of detail, look at BF3. People know and understand this process and a lot of money, as the video mentioned, went into the development of polygon technology.

    But this appears to be the next step in technological evolution. When there's no detriment to performance, why not render details at such an extreme level? There's no negative aspect, so do it.
     
  12. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

    Messages:
    4,489
    Positive Ratings:
    2,219
    I remember when this was first being discussed. And yeah, I'm very curious how they expect to fit all this into the memory that normal computers have. We have a hard enough time making games without intrusive loading screens now. I don't even want to think about how much more space this stuff will take up. It's nice that this would basically mean no more worrying about optimization for the level designers, though.
     
  13. owly-oop

    aa owly-oop im birb

    Messages:
    817
    Positive Ratings:
    1,154
    Science isn't about why, it's about why not. You ask: why is so much of our science dangerous? I say: why not marry safe science if you love it so much. In fact, why not invent a special safety door that won't hit you in the butt on the way out, because you are fired!
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 6
  14. Prestige

    aa Prestige im not gay anymore

    Messages:
    1,774
    Positive Ratings:
    1,530
    -Tobie "supersandvich" McGuire
     
  15. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Messages:
    2,852
    Positive Ratings:
    4,858
    The fact is, if we stop having to buy expensive graphics cards to put in our computers, we can buy expensive 2^some huge number gigabytes of RAM instead, therefore memory won't be a problem!

    I like to believe that this is real anyway. Games have to get to this point eventually, and how they explain it works makes sense if you have a processor that can do some decent calculations.
     
  16. T-LOID

    T-LOID L1: Registered

    Messages:
    11
    Positive Ratings:
    0
    Hrm... I'm sceptical about this. The way I could see this work is by having further away atoms collapsing into each other, and the closer you get, the more atoms you will actually see. That way you could perhaps always make sure there's only a limited amount of atoms on screen at any given time, making render times shorter. Sort of how Factor 5 did the dragons in Lair. They made a system whereby, the further away a model was, the less polygons would be rendered. the closer it got, the polycount of the model was dynamically altered. Heck, the commentary states that, when they went around the game with developer cam, they noticed the detail on the saddles of the dragons was amazing.

    I'm not an expert though, so don't take my word on this. it's just speculation.
     
  17. StickZer0

    aa StickZer0 💙💙💃💙💙

    Messages:
    664
    Positive Ratings:
    667
    T-LOID, I haven't seen anything to suggest that what Factor 5 did was tessellation, but the concept of merging polygons automatically is why tessellation really needs to take off. Instead of models having LoD models, they just have one super detailed model, and it automatically only uses the polygons that are necessary and it works very well.
    I'd have thought that this system makes use of tessellation.

    Also, how come nobody made this thread when they released their first video like a year or two ago?
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  18. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

    Messages:
    4,769
    Positive Ratings:
    5,532
    I'll be interested when their island isn't repetitive. I don't care what they say about it being because they "aren't artists", it seems suspicious. Most engines have efficient methods of handling identical content rendered multiple times.
     
  19. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

    Messages:
    4,489
    Positive Ratings:
    2,219
    From what I remember of the first video (I think there was a thread, actually; at least I remember seeing the video and I can't imagine where else it would have been posted that I go to), the engine basically maps each pixel to whichever "atom" is directly in front of it, ignoring all the rest. This takes care of the need to not render anything that's outside the line of sight as well as reduction of detail.

    This approach would leave them without any way to filter textures to keep them smooth-looking, though. I don't know if antialiasing (which I guess would have to be of the "take a bigger picture and shrink it" variety) would be effective at compensating for this or not.
     
  20. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

    Messages:
    6,391
    Positive Ratings:
    4,906
    Notch brings up some good points

    Something I didn't think about was how much data this would use... notch estimates their island in the video to be 512 Petabytes. In laymans terms... A lot of data.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2