PL Escarpment

Discussion in 'Map Showcase' started by Freyja, Jan 3, 2012.

  1. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Messages:
    2,878
    Positive Ratings:
    4,955
    I have. They just don't work for some reason.
     
  2. Boylee

    aa Boylee pew pew pew

    Messages:
    1,068
    Positive Ratings:
    631
    How do you have them set up Aly?
     
  3. tyler

    aa tyler snail prince, master of a ruined tower

    Messages:
    5,035
    Positive Ratings:
    3,990
    Turn them into kill triggers. If someone gets stuck in a door, it's just natural selection taking its course.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 4
  4. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

    Messages:
    4,489
    Positive Ratings:
    2,219
    [​IMG]

    'Nuff said.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 2
  5. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Messages:
    2,878
    Positive Ratings:
    4,955
  6. Bereth

    Bereth L3: Member

    Messages:
    127
    Positive Ratings:
    78
    Clipping problems on your map:

    [​IMG]
    Make sure all stairs are fully clipped. This one seemed pretty bad to me.

    [​IMG]

    This entire area needs clipping on those pillars/props.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Why can't I get very close to the wall here?

    [​IMG]
    Terrible clipping in this area.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Other problems:

    [​IMG]
    Floating stairs.

    [​IMG]
    Weird glitch under door.

    [​IMG]
    Fade distances.

    [​IMG]
    Bad mobility when the cart's here.

    [​IMG]
    No visualizer.

    [​IMG]
    Can't go through here easily. Make it impossible, or easier.

    [​IMG]
    Where is this light coming from?

    [​IMG]
    I think you should have the displacements such that you can see more of the wood slats here.

    [​IMG]
    Bad mobility here when the cart is here. This is serious. I've died multiple times here.

    [​IMG]
    Questionably good hiding spot.

    [​IMG]
    Another pretty good hiding spot.

    [​IMG]
    Displacements could be better here.

    [​IMG]
    Put a fence here to stop sticky traps.

    [​IMG]
    The colors here don't fit that... balloon animal.

    [​IMG]
    Another hiding spot.

    [​IMG]
    You have to get off the cart after the dynamic element to resume it.

    [​IMG]
    This looks bad to me.

    [​IMG]
    Make this wall smaller. It would make the cabinet easier to see. I always miss it.

    Don't know if you've seen it, but this give you a bit of insight into competitive. We've also lobbied it, and it was... okay. The last point could be a bit easier to defend but otherwise the only real issues are clipping.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 3
    Last edited: May 15, 2012
  7. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

    Messages:
    6,391
    Positive Ratings:
    4,906
    I still stand behind that Getting to CP2 is too hard, and CP3 is either too hard, or too easy to cap.
     
  8. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Messages:
    2,878
    Positive Ratings:
    4,955
    Of course I've seen it. I was spectating that live and was in their mumble :p

    I'll work on the other problems, That light leak, however, won't seem to disappear. I can't get rid of it all I try.
     
  9. Bereth

    Bereth L3: Member

    Messages:
    127
    Positive Ratings:
    78
    Put a lantern there, or better yet, a mousehole. If light is coming from there anyway people will be less likely to question the color/brightness. Of course a mousehole would just be hilarious.
     
  10. ics

    aa ics http://ics-base.net

    Messages:
    706
    Positive Ratings:
    432
    *EDIT*

    Actually i rechecked, it was the 3rd CP that was too hard to get.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2012
  11. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

    Messages:
    5,436
    Positive Ratings:
    3,570
    Agreed.

    Most of the games i've played on this have stalemated at the area directly behind CP1. But it's not hard to figure out why, a small and medium route are the only routes to progress forwards and the larger is in close proximity to RED's spawn exit and a strong sentry nest area. The rollback doesn't help but there's not much you can do about that, it seems weird to have a hill without one now-a-days. It is a little inconvinient that the only real way to get through here is to push through the back and attack from the rear when the rear is further through the map as opposed to a flank within the same general area. For public players its easy to see why they'd be much more interested in dawdling about behind enemy lines because it just interests them too much to potentially spawn camp or farm kills as an individual than win this part of the map.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    Last edited: May 16, 2012
  12. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

    Messages:
    3,186
    Positive Ratings:
    4,899
    [​IMG]

    Just a small thing. Coming out of spawn I got confused once here thinking this was a choice, whereas the right path takes me back.

    Maybe an arrow in between would help?
     
  13. takk¥u

    takk¥u L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    56
    Positive Ratings:
    21
    Seriously, you should know the spawn exits after the first round.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  14. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

    Messages:
    6,391
    Positive Ratings:
    4,906
    1 of the rules of level design for TF2.

    Assume people don't remember things well.
     
  15. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

    Messages:
    3,186
    Positive Ratings:
    4,899
    Hence me saying a small thing. An arrow or some sort of guidance there would be beneficial to a new player on the map.

    That's sort of a contingency you plan for.
     
  16. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

    Messages:
    5,436
    Positive Ratings:
    3,570
    There's not knowing a route and then there's not knowing a spawn exit. You have 2 minutes to fuck about in the spawn area, on top of making that mistake X amount of times before you learn your lesson.

    I'm in agreement here. Besides the fact that i've never made that mistake, "forwards" is fairly intuitive and that should be a prime example of that fact; that i've never made that mistake.
     
  17. Tekku

    aa Tekku

    Messages:
    683
    Positive Ratings:
    708
    pl_escarpment_rc1​


    Gameplay

    Overall the gameplay in this map is rather decent, although it has quite a lot of issues, which will also have a impact on Balance. It is a mixture of both open and enclosed areas, mostly the height advantage is found in the enclosed areas, while outside part of the map is rather flat, however, with interesting fighting space.

    One of the things i didn't like in the map was the 2nd capture point, more specifically how close Red teams spawn is. In this case, i can mention the Difficulty Curve where your map is quite off the graph, since 2nd capture point is harder than the last.

    Another thing i would like to mention is the bridge and the 3rd capture point. Even though the area is good looking, gameplay wise it's rather dull. Due to the fact that the Blue team has to push the cart over a straight bridge, risking to be often snipped, the bridge isn't the best gameplay element, nor the area around it. From all rounds played, i have rarely seen anyone use the ravine, since players have a huge height disadvantage, rather most of them use the cave leading around the bridge. Although it's not bad and not forced, there should be something that could make players use the other route opportunities.

    And lastly gameplay wise there is one major issue in this map, it is the fact that engineers aren't able to build teleport exits anywhere neither the sawmill building, neither in the Final building. This really slows down the Attacking team often being one of the reasons for the Difficulty curve to be off.

    This reason doesn't have an effect on gameplay score, due to the fact that it is a unknown game issue, not intended by the mapper

    Balance

    Balance wise the map is rather unbalanced for both teams, due to the fact of the Difficulty curve once again. With blue Scoring 70% wins and Red scoring 30%, the map has some issues.

    First of all, as i mentioned before, the main problem is the difficulty curve of the map, that most times red is able to win only by holding the 2nd capture point. As is seems to be the hardest to capture. Last capture point in this case is rather easy, and red team is rarely able to hold it off.

    Class wise, the map is quite balanced, however there are some classes that could benefit more from the map. Often a good combo of Heavy+Medic is able to hold of one position for quite time, or roll the cart forward, which is not bad. However, spy in this case is in quite disadvantage due to the fact that many people don't play as engy on this map, because of the game issue of not letting build teleports, and another reason is that there is a lack of sneaky places.

    Dynamic element

    To be honest, despite the really astonishing environment, I and probably most of the players expected a more unique dynamic element, which would be more interesting that a simple log.

    No matter how good the log fits in the maps setting, dropped in the sawmill, it still is quite boring and uninteresting. However, gameplay wise it's quite useful, allowing for Red team to set up their defense while it takes around 30-40 seconds for the log to clear the tracks.

    Aesthetics

    Aesthetics wise the map is one of the best looking in this contest. Rather simple, though interesting alpine detailing featuring a sawmill which in my opinion is the main point of interest in the map, due to the dynamic element.

    Starting in a rather quiet, rural setting, which is quite unusual for Blue team, players progress deeper into the Sawmill, and after crossing or i might say, pushing past the bridge, they enter the somewhat industrial building, which this is the end of the map, featuring a huge laser. Which however, doesn't really fit in the map, and also doesn't make sense due to how it explodes.

    Otherwise, everything else is really good looking except for a few bland looking areas, rather uninteresting space, and quite a lot of waterfalls.'

    In my opinion, Blue team would rather benefit from a setting more industrial, however it really depends on each mappers taste.

    Some things, that I have noticed:

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/escarpment/pl_escarpment_rc10001.jpg
    Tiny hole in blue spawn, with some z-clipping.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/escarpment/pl_escarpment_rc10002.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/escarpment/pl_escarpment_rc10003.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/escarpment/pl_escarpment_rc10008.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/escarpment/pl_escarpment_rc10012.jpg
    I probably shouldn't be able to stand here.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/escarpment/pl_escarpment_rc10004.jpg
    I can stand here.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/escarpment/pl_escarpment_rc10005.jpg
    But can't here

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/escarpment/pl_escarpment_rc10006.jpg
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/escarpment/pl_escarpment_rc10007.jpg
    Pickups are quite high.(pun)

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/escarpment/pl_escarpment_rc10009.jpg
    I can see water going through the rocks.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/escarpment/pl_escarpment_rc10011.jpg
    Red spawn too close to 2nd capture point.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/escarpment/pl_escarpment_rc10018.jpg
    This area should have beams clipped.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/escarpment/pl_escarpment_rc10019.jpg
    All arrow guidance signs should be nonsolid.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/escarpment/pl_escarpment_rc10020.jpg
    Small nodraw part seen on the building.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/escarpment/pl_escarpment_rc10022.jpg
    Can travel with the log.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/escarpment/pl_escarpment_rc10023.jpg
    Gotta catch em all.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/escarpment/pl_escarpment_rc10024.jpg
    Creative way of stairs and slope.

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1607727/Contest/escarpment/pl_escarpment_rc10027.jpg
    It doesn't make sense that it explodes.

    Performance

    I have seen some people complain about the performance on this map, however, I haven't experienced any major issues. There are some minor things though, some nodrawn walls visible, that though, don't really have huge impact on the player.
     
  18. Trotim

    aa Trotim

    Messages:
    1,180
    Positive Ratings:
    997
    Putting a "Resupply" sign near that tunnel entrance could probably help.
     
  19. Boylee

    aa Boylee pew pew pew

    Messages:
    1,068
    Positive Ratings:
    631
    I second this motion.

    I also suggest making it so that red can't snipe directly into blue's initial spawn.
     
  20. Xi.Cynx

    aa Xi.Cynx Former Alias: †Blade†

    Messages:
    772
    Positive Ratings:
    734
    I like the look of this map, I hope the production on it keeps up, will definitely throw it on our customer maps server that we are running. :p