1 Do you mean the bowl/map edges? Or the basic terrain?
2 Good thinking
3 Going to be a CTF
4
5 Thats the plan!
WiP in WiP, post your screenshots!
- Thread starter Arhurt
- Start date
1 Do you mean the bowl/map edges? Or the basic terrain?
2 Good thinking
3 Going to be a CTF
4
5 Thats the plan!
Deodorant
L6: Sharp Member
- Oct 31, 2011
- 263
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Ok, a few things... This is WAY early beta.. Sight lines.. are.. well... a snipers dream. You can almost hit the whole map from the base. The entire land scape is 4 brushes. 4. I am currently adding a LOT of trees to block the view, add cover, and a lot of ambiance. The textures are repetetive, yes, this will be fixed at a later date. Had this up on the clan server yesterday and tested out the game play. It flowed decently well after we got done playing who can snipe who from the corner of the map.
The bases arent there really. Those are just respawn rooms and a little sniper nest. There are a few ways down to the ground level, jumping is not advised as it is just high enough to cause damage. This may be changed later as well.
I dont even know why Im posting this, after looking at all of the awesome work you guys are doing, mine looks like.. well.. garbage.. :unsure:
I hate to tell you this becaues I know how it feels to learn it, but you have the wrong basic approach to TF2 mapmaking.
You're approaching the task like some sort of god. You create a giant plane of ground, you drag it into a shape you think feels natural and you then proceed to scatter trees and houses on it. This may feel logical, but it isn't how mapping - at least not TF2 mapping - works.
I would say TF2 mapping is about using various basic shapes to construct areas that direct and control the behaviors of players in a way that makes combat enjoyable and balanced, then arrange those areas in a way that gives the entire map balance, intuitiveness and flow. What those basic shapes represent doesn't matter until you start detailing the map, something you shouldn't start bothering with until the gameplay aspect is more or less done. If your gameplay needs an inclined surface, make an inclined surface. When you get to detailing you can choose to turn it into a ramp, a flight of stairs or a natural slope depending on what fits best, but until then you don't need to worry about it.
Here's what I suggest you to do if you want your map to look and play more like maps made by good mappers, and also like maps made by me:
- Scrap your current map completely.
- Read a bunch of design theory tutorials here on TF2 maps, especially that stickied one about common beginner mistakes.
- Open some official maps in Hammer. There are a few ones that come prepackaged with the program, the rest can be downloaded here. Deselect 'Tool Brushes' in the vis group menu. For your purposes they are only in the way, and they make everything look so complicated that you'll get a minority complex. Once you've done this, fly around and take a good look at how stuff is made. Select displacements and destroy them (as long as you don't save the map afterwards it's no problem to mess up stuff. If you save it's not really a big problem either, but it will make future reference studies more difficult) to see what kind of blocky shapes they're made of. Select various things (walls, doorframes, entire areas of play etc.) and see which proportions they have.
- Plan your map design on paper. Try to keep the roles of all classes in mind to give them all an appropriate amount of both opportunity and limitations.
- Build your new design in Hammer. Most mappers use development textures (filter: dev) for everything at this stage because they are plain and distraction-free, and they work as a convenient visual clue to playtesters that the map is an alpha. I guess you can use other textures if you feel like it, just don't put any effort into making things pretty.
- Submit the new map to a gameday.
- Get told by everyone, especially Wilson, that your new map is a horribly broken abomination.
- Repeat ad nauseum.
Good luck!
EDIT: Hey, that's a pretty dignified 100th post.
- Jul 22, 2009
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the bowl
an some of the basic terrain maybe
look at the official vmf's like sdk_pl_goldrush
Sergis and Deodorant basically covered whats wrong with this and told you want you need to work on.
But I would just like to say, that is some of the better first-time large-scale Terrain Displacement work I've seen. Alot of the time it's horribley horribley jagged. This has the jagged pieces, but isn't too bad.
deadsource
L3: Member
- Jul 11, 2011
- 121
- 55
A very early screen shot of my first ever map. I spent 4 hours trying out stuff like displacements etc. Quite hard actually.
Because your face.
Also: re: nodraw: it completely removes the need to nodraw hidden faces.
Just use shift+t on your dev textures once you're ready to texture stuff.
Select a bunch (or the whole map, up to you) with nodraw as the current texture, hit shift+t and bam, all the faces of all the selected brushes are nodraw.
You're essentially doubling the number of times you have to texture each brush without any reason to.
it.. actually does.. have ENV_light.. Probably too high in the sky for it to cast shadows..
Coming from way back when before 'displacements' were available, this is actually my first attempt. Thanks.
Will do. Thanks. The bowl sides were just jacked up to make it 'functionable'.
Erhm, that came off a bit 'Im better then you'ish. Thats the first comment that Ive gotten where some one said 'wow thats awful, if you want to see a good map, look at MINE'. Approaching the task like a 'god'? Hardly. What does that even mean? I may be just getting back into map making, but I had been doing it since the early-mid 90's in quake. So while im new to TF2 maps and the new hammer, this whole 'concept' isnt rocket surgery to me. Just needed to flex my mind muscle for a bit to get back into the swing of it. If you had read my comments, it addressed those 'newbie' mistakes already, like the sight lines, etc, so reitterating that was kinda moot. The map was basicly a 'whats this new tab do..' New tools = new learning curve. Thanks for the comments though. That map has already been 'scrapped'. I also DO map in dev and nodraw. This map was textured so I could toss it on the clan server. Also new-to-me are using models for EVERYTHING, back in the day a model was an item, not a pre-constructed visual element. Torches, doors, windows, stairs, all made with brushes. Thanks again for the comments.
Deodorant
L6: Sharp Member
- Oct 31, 2011
- 263
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While I don't want to use labels like better or worse, I do think I'm slightly more experienced at TF2 mapping than you are. As implied by the 'like maps made by good mappers, and also like maps made by me' part, though, I'm by no means in the same league as those other guys here. I wrote the post from the perspective of a person with a fresh memory of doing the stuff you do.
When I say that you're mapping like a god, I mean that it feels like you're trying to create a landscape. From the picture you posted and the text that accompanied it, it sounded like you started by making ground and forming it into hills and valleys, then planned to add houses and vegetation on top. It's a logical way to approach it, because it's more or less so it works in the real world. Mapping for Oblivion and Fallout (which I have a very tiny amount of experience of) works the same way, and though I don't know how Quake maps are made your description makes it sound somewhat similar.
I just want to make it clear that TF2 maps don't follow that principle. The fact that you don't magically know this from the start doesn't make you dumb, but the faster you do understand it the faster you will improve.
- Jul 31, 2011
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Deodorant is right. The "big chunk of terrain with stuff on it" approach would work in a game like Battlefield, but TF2 maps are very small, narrow, and directed compared to those kinds of maps. Think of the map as a series of big rooms, or areas, connected by routes. grazr did an excellent tutorial about this, read it here.
Also, please calm down. Nobody is insulting you by telling you how to improve.
Also, please calm down. Nobody is insulting you by telling you how to improve.
Deodorant
L6: Sharp Member
- Oct 31, 2011
- 263
- 214
i'm surprised it even works
Looks good, but that transition from nodraw to crate feels a bit sudden and distracting. Try to add a few broken planks around it to create a more gradual shift in environment.
MarcoPixel
L1: Registered
- Apr 22, 2012
- 33
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- Jul 22, 2009
- 1,874
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if you buil enough stuff on sai chunk, it can easily become a regular tf2 map. this approach can work just as well as builing room by room
LMFAO
Banned
- Jun 14, 2012
- 131
- 60
Have you been skipping school lately? (Just kidding!)
After 30 minutes (of alone livestreaming) and some more to fix some rendering issues, I managed to get Red's spawn done for the KotH contest.
I am not obligated at the time to tell you the name of the map, it would ruin the surprise I have planned.
- May 21, 2009
- 2,039
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i'm surprised it even works
why are you spawning healthkits and ammo packs and crates(???) like that?
Have you been skipping school lately? (Just kidding!)
After 30 minutes (of alone livestreaming) and some more to fix some rendering issues, I managed to get Red's spawn done for the KotH contest.
I am not obligated at the time to tell you the name of the map, it would ruin the surprise I have planned.
You have a leak.