PL snowycoast B6

[tyler]

I feel like this should be in the update thread, not a map thread.

 

[Muddy]

Some people genuinely like Arena mode, you know.

 

[EArkham]

While I agree that Snowycoast is a really cool map, it wasn't quite at this stage of development at the end of the Mercs Vs Aliens contest.

PUN!

But yeah, this exactly. The contest version was in no way in any shape to be winning anything.

Also, I removed all the Invasion content from this map since then anyway. While the final ship is meant to look compatible with the invasion props, this alone would remove it from any Invasion content consideration.

It's all good.

PS - I happen to really like Byre.

 

[Malachite Man]

snowycoast is one of the best snow themed payload maps ever

 

[EArkham]

I've been (obsessively?) searching for general feedback on snowycoast since it's been accepted, and the reception is a little mixed. Overally, most people seem to enjoy it a lot, but the ones that don't enjoy it really hate it.

Gotta admit, it's frustrating to watch a youtuber run straight into the enemy team repeatedly, ignoring the flank routes entirely, and then say "I don't like this map, there are no flanks." However overall there was a lot of good feedback to be had, so I've made a list of things that I'd like to adjust and Valve has told me they're okay with changes to improve the map.

Some things already on the list:

* Several unintended perches (basically 1-2 HU ledges or props that weren't non-solid)
* Incorrect smoothing on the cart and crates at last
* Adding a resupply cabinet toward the front of BLU's 1st spawn so it's a little easier to push out
* Adding some cover inside BLU spawn to prevent spamming all the way in
* Pushing into 2nd is hard if you don't use the long flank (and most people don't even realize it's there, heh)
* Sniper deck on 2nd needs to be raised slightly so crouching snipers can't get cover
* Need to change how RED's 1st spawn moves players to RED's last spawn
* Tempted to open one of the doors to 3rd when 1st is capped (currently opens when 2nd is capped) so proactive RED players can fall back to defend 3rd
* Going to swap the window and spawn exit at RED last to help mitigate spawn camping and to remove that direct line of sight to the cart

Because of a small window to test, I won't be making major gameplay changes. I'm actually mostly happy with how 1st and 2nd play; it just needs a little massaging.

I'm going to try to get these changes made and a test version uploaded to the TF2maps server before New Year's, so if you have some feedback now that the map is in game, please do take the time to mention it here.

I'm about leave shortly after this post for Xmas with the family, so don't think I'm ignoring anyone if I don't respond for a few days. Thanks!

 

[Invalid nick]

this map is epic!

 

[zahndah]

Just some things i found, not sure if you are already aware:

There is a small gap in the doorframe at BLU first spawn right exit.

Can kind of see the stairs poking through the wall, only at far distances though?

Get stuck running against this wall.

 

[ics]

I have to say first of all that this map theme is so nice that it brought the movie the thing into my head. The surrounding area and the weather effects really fit into this. I was sad when i noticed this map didn't get into invasion update but also back then I did not like the b4 version of the map due to the framerate issues it had compared to this but good thing those are fixed. Loving the custom models you have in this.

For gameplay related feedback, i don't think many people even know this route down here exists (1st image). I'm not even sure if it's needed. The track between A and B is quite short and it's not that hard to keep as RED in my experience. If BLU team has spy and/or medic, those possible sentries fall of quite easily. But if you think that the route down there is good to keep, it's up to you. Personally i have used it maybe once, and we've gotten to B quite easily without it too.

I'm not sure if the fences here are necessary. They just block the players off and that little platform should be more open in my opinion.

I would remove this truck, it hinders visibility, movement and hides that sideroute down there easily. Put something smaller in it's place, pile of crates or similiar.

Some other things i noticed / don't like.

This lantern isn't attached to wall, it's in the air

This blu sign in the tunnels is hovering

This lamp is not attached to the roof

Minor thing but the fence pole is inside the cliff

This window stays black too long, it could be an optimization thing though why you left it at it is now.

This roof texture looks odd along with the stone in the corner with it.

I dont like this yellow brick texture. But thats only my opinion.

Thats all i noticed, for now.

 

[Zed]

Just got a contract, hopped onto a Valve server and decided to take a few screens.

If you're looking for places to put the respawn cabinets in BLU spawn, I think these two spots would work well.

If you're looking to create more focus on the long route to B, I think it would be a good idea to rearrange the cover here and use lighting cues to point this entrance out.

 

[zahndah]

Just found a small spot high up in which you can stand which you may want to fix.

up on this wall just after A cap, dont mind the error cart thats an error on my side.

 

[EArkham]

SNOWYCOAST B5 CHANGES:

• Fixed several unintended perches
• Fixed being able to damage through the setup gates
• Added some fences & cover inside BLU's first spawn to reduce spam angles
• Added an extra resupply in BLU's first spawn and RED's last spawn
• Moved medium health kit at 1st point back towards BLU's side of choke
• Changed collision on large railings to allow projectiles
• Added some cover to the sentry platform inside last
• Adjusted lighting/detailing at stair to 2nd point low flank to make it more obvious
• Quonset hut sniper deck raised
• Spawn locations in RED's first moved further from the door
• Added windows to main entrance of RED's first spawn
• Adjusted the narrow fence near RED spawn
• Prevented building teleporters at the edge of spawn doors
• Added some logic to prevent players getting stuck when RED's first spawn closes
• Changed how RED spawn moves players to their last spawn when 2nd is capped (no longer slays & respawns)
• Replaced dump truck in kennels with crates
• Door near RED's first spawn now opens as the cart approaches 2nd instead of after capture
• Switched main exit and window on RED's last spawn
• Adjusted placement of health and ammo near RED's last spawn
• Fixed various floating props
• Fixed some texture alignment issues in the tunnels
• Fixed spot on last ramp that would keep the cart from rolling back
• Fixed some smoothing/geometry problems on crates at last
• Reduced size of kill zone on falling crates during finale
• Added map menu photos

Version to get a quick test before I send it off to Valve to (hopefully) get shipped.

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[EArkham]

Just a quick post to say thanks to everyone who helped out with that brief impromptu to make sure everything on the new version was working. Thanks!

Btw, Zahndah, that stairs issue never appeared for me, and the wall is like 16 HU with the stairs fully on the opposite side... I think this might be something to do with your config settings.

 

[CommodoreKong]

One thing you may want to consider changing is closing off the underground path with the crates after blu caps the third point. When your on red I find it extremely easy to use that route to get to Blu's spawn and spawn camp them since no one really uses that path anymore.

 

[EArkham]

One thing you may want to consider changing is closing off the underground path with the crates after blu caps the third point. When your on red I find it extremely easy to use that route to get to Blu's spawn and spawn camp them since no one really uses that path anymore.

It's a really awesome spy route, definitely, and also very useful for mobility classes (scout, soldier). Yeah, it might be TOO awesome for that, but I haven't seen any major problems arise from using that route specifically.

Typically what I'd seen (with demos, youtube videos, personal experience, etc) is RED brute forcing their way to that spawn up the main path... usually due to BLU afkers, or teams getting split, or the ever popular team composition of 3 spies and 3 snipers. The main issue I was seeing over and over was nobody on BLU using that small side exit.

Sealing that underground side route off is a possibility, but I just haven't seen enough situations where it's absolutely needed. It's something I'll keep my eye on of course.

 

[CommodoreKong]

It's a really awesome spy route, definitely, and also very useful for mobility classes (scout, soldier). Yeah, it might be TOO awesome for that, but I haven't seen any major problems arise from using that route specifically.

Typically what I'd seen (with demos, youtube videos, personal experience, etc) is RED brute forcing their way to that spawn up the main path... usually due to BLU afkers, or teams getting split, or the ever popular team composition of 3 spies and 3 snipers. The main issue I was seeing over and over was nobody on BLU using that small side exit.

Sealing that underground side route off is a possibility, but I just haven't seen enough situations where it's absolutely needed. It's something I'll keep my eye on of course.

Yeah honestly I haven't seen too many people use the route yet for spawn camping besides me, but if someone like Muselk makes a video doing it then I think it's probably going to become a bigger problem. I would suggest giving it a shot in a few matches to see what you think, play as demo on red and use that route to get behind their spawn (when you go up the boxes from the underground passage go left so the people coming out of Blu Spawn don't even see you while you're getting to their spawn). You can easily sticky trap the door and since no one uses the lower door to leave you are pretty much guaranteed to get a bunch of easy spawn camping kills and no one will even see you get to the spawn. If you take damage you can pretty easily retreat and pick up big health and ammo from the previous part of the map.

Maybe instead of closing up the underground route you could close up the passage to the right of the final upper blu spawn exit? That way if any spawn camping is going to be done you can't easily retreat to the health/ammo and you can't as easily sneak up behind their spawn, you have to go in front of their spawn to do any spawn camping.

 

[Zed]

It might be worth orientating some of the spawn points in that forward spawn so that they face that side door.

 

[Izotope]

Me and my friend managed to spawncamp a strong non-afk BLU team for about 2-3 minutes with a Kritzkrieg.
I have to say that it took some time to push back, and we didn't use the underground path with the crates.
Man I gotta say, snowycoast and the medigun updates made me a better Kritz Medic

 

[EArkham]

Maybe instead of closing up the underground route you could close up the passage to the right of the final upper blu spawn exit? That way if any spawn camping is going to be done you can't easily retreat to the health/ammo and you can't as easily sneak up behind their spawn, you have to go in front of their spawn to do any spawn camping.

That's a pretty good idea. I've already sent off this version to Valve -- a bit of a rush because there's an exploit I wanted fixed ASAP included in the changes -- but this will definitely be something to consider for the next one.

It might be worth orientating some of the spawn points in that forward spawn so that they face that side door.

I did that in many of the spawns for this version (undocumented), looks like I didn't orient enough of the spawns in that one BLU respawn.

Me and my friend managed to spawncamp a strong non-afk BLU team for about 2-3 minutes with a Kritzkrieg.
I have to say that it took some time to push back, and we didn't use the underground path with the crates.
Man I gotta say, snowycoast and the medigun updates made me a better Kritz Medic

Did anyone try to go out the side exit, or did they just keep plowing through the main one? And were you two right up on the door or in the open area?

This does happen on other maps -- barnblitz, goldrush, even upward -- but of course that's not an excuse to leave it as is. What I'm considering is a 3rd exit on that spawn, one that gives a height advantage plus some cover, coming out that side where the metal fence is now. I dunno.

 

[Izotope]

Did anyone try to go out the side exit, or did they just keep plowing through the main one? And were you two right up on the door or in the open area?

I've made this picture that shows how much of the time we occupied an area:

I hope this helps

 

[GroundCode_]

The aurora particles that were used with the map Snowville have been released onto tf2 maps. If you used it on the map, it might really improve it aesthetically, or not. Anyway, you should check it out. There should also be a third path to the last cap. I was thinking maybe a vent to go through, one side opening under the red spawn drop down facing the mine, and the other side maybe coming out right beside the new spawn exit in b5. It would easily be defended by Demomen, but would allow blu to get behind sentry nests. So high risk, high reward. Since it would also be right next to red spawn it would suffer from other things, but would be great for a last push effort and it also wouldn't change the flow of the game too much on last.