PL snowycoast B6

[Zed]

I feel like a good way to help RED set up defenses at C would be to close the dropdown flank into the mine until the gate opens.

 

[EArkham]

Yeah, scouts in particular love to rush that soon as it opens. I may delay opening the side door a few seconds. Just don't want this update to turn into an "lel, all the doors" update, but it seems like it's heading that way, heh.

Already swapped the ammo packs at 3rd in Hammer, btw, GroundCode_. Had the same idea a couple of days ago

 

[UKCS-Alias]

Just don't want this update to turn into an "lel, all the doors" update, but it seems like it's heading that way, heh.

When you do that it just becomes a 2 staged map put into 1 single round. I dont realy see a problem there since the setup time is still less than 60 seconds. Especialy since that moment would also happen at the half of the round.

 

[EArkham]

Changes are mostly done for snowycoast B6. However I'm adding a dropdown to RED's last spawn to help alleviate a couple of issues with it and I need some feedback.

The entrance will be here:

But for the exit, I'm not sure which is the best. Both exit locations have positive/negatives.

Exit Outside the Bulkhead

• lets RED defend the cart on its final approach easier (distance comparable to borneo's spawn to last point)
• sheltered from the long flank
• only useful once the bulkhead is open

Exit Inside the Warehouse

• useful for defending all of last
• helps reduce the importance of the yellow stair choke
• big downside forces BLU to walk right past a RED exit when pushing the cart

I'm thinking the exit inside is the better choice. One of the main things I dislike about last right now is how it all revolves around holding/losing that yellow staircase, which is annoying. Being a one way dropdown, maybe that won't be a problem with this one. I dunno. Thoughts?

 

[Izotope]

Exit Outside the Bulkhead sounds to me like the way to go.
As for the "inside" option, idk. I think I'd have to see it in practise.

 

[UKCS-Alias]

My feedback on your idea:

I think its a quite effective way as long as on the blue side of the right path you keep it open enough so stickytraps arent going to become a major hazard (they should be able to see them early enough to still walk backward - a partial fence section before the actual opening?)

 

[EArkham]

That's a rather elegant solution actually. So basically you're saying both exits, only seal the inside one after BLU opens the bulkhead?

Only thing I'm not onboard with is the staircase. Besides issues of a staircase making RED spawn very cramped, this will be a ton of spawn exits. I'd like to make sure if RED wants the lower exits, they're commiting to them.

Oh wow, yeah.. .so that lower route would actually give RED a great way to bypass the gate, too, without having to go up and then back down again.

 

[Vel0city]

I have a totally unrelated question.

Since when does Valve make maps "official" even though they're still in active development (and in Snowycoast's case in beta)? Last time I checked Valve only picks out finished maps (read: maps that are either in late RC stages or considered final by a mapper). I mean, this map is really solid and it looks beautiful, but it's a strange decision by Valve I never thought they'd would do.

Although you do have about 40.000-50.000 potential play testers so that's a nice bonus.

 

[EArkham]

Since when does a map being official mean it can't be made better?

Before it was accepted, I was perfectly fine with that version in the workshop and considered it the equivalent of a release candidate. I rarely actually label my maps RC anyway (I think the only map of mine that is labeled RC is cp_antiquity and this summer I'm going to take it back to alpha). After snowycoast's release, feedback and gameplay showed some problems and gave me a TON more data to work with.

Maybe it's not the way things have been done in the past, but I wouldn't be happy just ignoring that data when I could use it to improve the map.

 

[GroundCode_]

I like Alias's idea, but closing it off after the bulkhead opens makes the route almost useless. When players spawn they tend to immeadeately go to the yellow staircase because it offers a height advantage and is more direct. That means the route into the inside of the warehouse wouldn't be used as much as it could be, you should consider keeping it open even after the bulkhead opens. (Also aesthetically you should use vents, vents are awesome.) And I agree that the new exit should be one way, but for the aesthetics of it you should consider maybe a hole in the floor that leads into a basement or something vs a normal looking exit.

 

[GroundCode_]

Oh wait I miss read the part about the floor breaking open.

 

[Freyja]

I have a totally unrelated question.

Since when does Valve make maps "official" even though they're still in active development (and in Snowycoast's case in beta)? Last time I checked Valve only picks out finished maps (read: maps that are either in late RC stages or considered final by a mapper). I mean, this map is really solid and it looks beautiful, but it's a strange decision by Valve I never thought they'd would do.

Although you do have about 40.000-50.000 potential play testers so that's a nice bonus.

From what I've heard, being in active development (or namely the map maker being active for continued improvement) is one of the things they look for

 

[UKCS-Alias]

I like Alias's idea, but closing it off after the bulkhead opens makes the route almost useless. When players spawn they tend to immeadeately go to the yellow staircase because it offers a height advantage and is more direct.

Its not realy ment for being used as major offensive path, as the staircase will allways remain superior on that, but at the same time that staircase also has brought issues once blue managed to lock it down. The alternative path on the bottom on that can provide an additional flank. as it is entirely outside of the view from those who spawncamp.

However, at the same time you still should be aware that blue can abuse that same path to get to the back of that yellow staircase entrance. The red spawn exit being close to that path can however make it a risky choise as it allows for an easy ambush against such attacks.

That means the route into the inside of the warehouse wouldn't be used as much as it could be

Its more to provide a quick way to retreat without having to fully bother at watching backward and potentialy miss the staircase. This allows red to stay alive instead of getting cornered.

you should consider keeping it open even after the bulkhead opens.

The reason to close it is because it directly is ending at a popular sentry location. Locking it off can provide a little time for red to build up. And keeping it close can keep it alive longer. You can notice similar effects of having such door closed on barnblitz at the 2nd cp. The only hazard remains when blue also controls that area since that would devestate a chance to build up (but if they managed that, its very likely they are steamrolling anyway).

Another thing i would call welcome is that once the door closes red gets an instant respawn time to realy get a chance to build up and not look at a respawn timer to again improve a defensive chance there. Its just that little boost that promotes the attempt to try to stop the cart before it fully reached the gate similar to how they would try to defend it on the final ramp.

 

[EArkham]

After your post, I realized I misunderstood your suggestion, Alias. Here's what I ended up doing (but I think this will still work nicely and interestingly!):

Dropdown at RED's last

...which leads to here:

What I've done here is provide two exits for RED, one on either side of the final bulkhead. The fence is to prevent BLU from shooting up into RED spawn. Using light to direct RED to one of the two exits. The door on the left in this image has a respawn room visualizer inside. The respawn room visualizer for the other exit is perpendicular to the viewer, going between the support beam to the wall with the arrows/red exit (this is so if a sniper wants to sit in the door, they won't be safe behind a spawn blocker).

Your suggestion was that BLU would be able to use this route around, so that's what I misunderstood. BLU would not be able to use this as a flank.

The door on the right goes:

The door on the left comes out under the stairs:

BLU has access to this room behind the fence (and I moved the small healthkit + med ammo pack inside to favour RED for purposes of defense). This exit closes after BLU opens the bulkhead for the purposes of preventing RED from getting an easy flank behind BLU's on the cart.

Adding this also helped brighten up this dark area under the walkway.

This one shows the improved sentry platform on the opposite side of the warehouse (old one was frankly useless, even with cover -- everyone could outrange it). All I did was reverse it.

Also the raised door that closes once the bulkhead opens. Closing this door with no other changes should improve that sentry spot that faces the last point considerably (previously everyone could just spam it out through the door with very little risk from the sentry itself), while leaving it as an okay-ish spot for facing into the warehouse before the bulkhead opens.

And the other rather significant change...

Improved Defendability of 3rd Point

3rd was increased length wise by 256 HU and the point moved forward. There's also a "mini-spawn" behind 3rd which is active from the time 2nd is captured until the BLU pushes out of the other kennel gate. This should be just enough time to get one respawn wave for RED players who died at the defense of 2nd. There is no longer a forced respawn since this new mini spawn puts them right on top of 3rd.

Spawncamping will not be an issue here since by the time the cart enters the mine, this spawn will have deactivated.

Hopefully that woodpile does not prove to be a super sentry spot... it's meant to be good and there are plenty of angles from the side flank to take it out indirectly, but it's going to be strong against the main entrance to the mines now.

This version is fully compiled but not packed up. I'll do that tomorrow after I sleep on it, make sure there's nothing else, and then pack & upload to the server for some impromtu testing.

 

[UKCS-Alias]

After your post, I realized I misunderstood your suggestion, Alias. Here's what I ended up doing (but I think this will still work nicely and interestingly!):

To be honest i actualy think this might be an improvement as in my example it could still end up flawed. Now this area is more safe, but still not as safe as directly being at a resupply locker.

However, your dropdown hole has tiles next to it that do not match the rounded edges of the hole.

 

[EArkham]

They're also not as thick as the gap between the floor and subflooring. I don't care! Intended quirk! Feature, not a bug!

Also, I dun goofed when packing, I'm having to recompile. Otherwise I'd have it on the server and ready for download by now.

[EDIT] Packed & uploaded to the tf2maps servers. I'll do a proper update post in a bit.

 

[GroundCode_]

10/10

 

[EArkham]

SNOWYCOAST B6 CHANGES

* Adjusted various spawn point facings to make side exits more obvious
* Adjusted position of resupply cabinet in RED's 1st spawn
* Added ledge to 2nd point flank route window
* Adjusted common sentry nests on 2nd
* Added light to entrance of lower flank route
* Door near RED's first spawn now opens on A capture and closes on final bulkhead opening

* RED no longer get forced respawn when 2nd is captured
* Added minor spawn for RED once 2nd is captured, active until BLU pushes through kennels
* Adjusted timing of flank doors at 2nd and in mines
* Updated door texture for flank exit by 2nd point

* Improved defendability and enlarged 3rd point
* Adjusted position of 3rd cap
* Adjusted health & ammo at 3rd
* Updated door texture for flank exit by mines

* Changed a medium ammopack at last to full ammo pack
* Added door to ledge at last to improve RED defendability (closes when bulkhead opens)
* Added 3rd exit to BLU's last forward spawn
* Improved defendability of ledges at last inside building
* Added new dropdown area to RED's last

* Adjusted lighting in various areas

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Izotope]

This is truly marvelous! I'm looking forward to playing this update.
One thing that I don't like is the fence on that ledge up that staircase inside the bulkhead, although I might get to like it in a playtest.

 

[Izotope]

So I climbed on the barrels and then tried to hide on that icy ledge near the lamp, then got stuck for some reason.
Please explain what happened here, I am clueless, since any collision meshes and/or playerclipping should not have allowed this.