MvM Contest Judging Journals

Discussion in 'Contests' started by Idolon, Mar 3, 2013.

  1. Idolon

    aa Idolon the worst admin

    Messages:
    1,258
    Positive Ratings:
    3,422
    These are the things our contest judges wrote in the super-secret judge hideout. I've copied the posts here, cut irrelevant bits out, and merged them. In other words, here are your raw, unedited judge reviews. Enjoy them!

    - Seba



    As opposed to putting all my final thoughts together at the end, I figured it'd be easier to just post everything as I go, when look back on what I wrote and compile what I ultimately think of the map. It's just a bit easier for me to work this way, plus I wont forget anything I felt was notable, and if any other judges want to know what I have to say, they can.

    march 3: maelstrom, sludge

    MAELSTROM
    -didn't actually get to play, only watched a match (8/6 on the server) so notes will just be on aesthetics/what i can get from running around in SP
    -nice to look at
    -the new pit you added looks really nice for some reason, especially with the barrels on the bottom
    -cubemaps? don't know if this is just on my end or not since sludge was missing them too
    -the spawn room looks cool with the amount of grittiness you put into it, dont know if it really follows the tf2 style but i like it regardless
    -there was a z-fighting error but it wasn't a big deal since it was hard to notice from ground level
    -indoors area near spawn could use some more detailing, walls are blank enough to bother me (even posters would be enough)
    -your cliffs have a lot of grass on them and it bothers me
    -the tank door opens downward and that's different from pretty much every other door ever, you should make it move to the side or make a new roll-up door
    -i like that you added a forward upgrade station but there's no reason it can't be further forward
    -the ramp in the upgrade room should be all the way across, just because having that gap will screw someone over one time and they will hate you because of it. you could make it half ramp, half stairs to maintain the visual interest since a wide ramp would look bland. either that or make it a grate and keep the junk under it
    -caged-in generator near the water path needs clipping
    -there's a cliff edge near the side bridge area that's almost a 90 angle, should smooth it out

    SLUDGE

    -actually played this one, engineer
    -the wave with the backburner pyros was fairly holdable until the pyros came, then we were forced to use the rest of the map. unsure if intentional, but it was consistent along every round we played
    -i noticed we failed earlier rounds more than later ones. i also felt we got a LOT of money in later rounds, a lot of which i probably didn't need. consider revising money amounts
    -the bear claw heavies happened so often that it was almost "oh boy not these guys again." consider mixing it up, so even if they are the same enemy it doesn't become super monotonous
    -lots of weird shadows appeared. other people told me this happens on other maps too so i don't know what to tell you
    -fps is this map's worst problem. you could probably make use of occluders on the building walls
    -good placement of ammo/health, small health in the storage shed was pretty much useless though
    -i like that you added the barrel on the stairs, made me smile
    -good job blocking the side bath that Donut said was overpowered. really improved the map flow, made that portion less of a place to hold out on. feels a bit cramped now, but i think its fine
    -no cubemaps, but could be just on my end. have yet to verify with anyone else
    -thanks for removing the railing in the building near the front area (you know the one)
    -the reset zone was remarkably hard to use, i think we used it once during the round. you should switch the water routes around for tank/reset paths for a version and see if the (new) reset route gets used more often
    -the trees in the OOB area with the airboats can't be seen without them fading. you should remove them just to improve the framerate, rather than up the fade distance
    -karst rocks could also be another framerate hit
    -the binksi logging building has a tree in it
    -there's a lot more props that could use fade distances
    -i'm getting a lot of
    Particles: maximum verts exceeded: 51444 verts, 77166 indexes
    Too many simultaneously active particles!
    in my console, more framerate hits yay
    -i like the first area because you can circle around the rock and and get to uber medics without their giant noticing. adding anything to facilitate to that mechanic would be superb (height advantage)
    -the only high ground in the first area leaves you with your back turned (usually to demoknights), meaning nobody really wanted to use it. consider making it take longer to get up to the platform (or putting the route up in a more visible spot to people using the highground)
    -you could also remove detail sprites to improve framerate

    March 18 (oh god i took a long hiatus, time to CRAAAAMMMM)

    ISOLATION
    -first thing i noticed was the aesthetics, really look nice. could be mistaken for a valve map
    -the gameplay is kinda not good, played soldier + engineer
    -the large building in the center of the first arena seems like it should be the main holding point, but it can only see one entrance and is a death trap to anyone who gets swarmed by the melee bots
    -the roof of that building feels like it should be so much more powerful than it is. it has no cover or health/ammo, and has a lot of falloff from anyone shooting from it, and consequently is really underpowered. i would revise that entire building to be more like decoy's center building
    -engineer didn't have many good spots to build. an ideal sentry spot has lots of cover, ammo, and isn't easy to sneak up on. while making an ideal sentry spot is a bad idea for balance reasons in most gamemodes, remember that mvm is a cooperative gamemode and can it's okay to be unfair
    -there's a lot of area to cover and as a result our team was pretty spread out. if you created a more defined spine i think it could fix a lot of issues
    -there isn't a whole lot of usable high ground in the main fighting areas. the best high ground is at the thin outdoors passageway, but a combination of claustrophobia and your bot choices makes that portion very hard to hold.
    -your pickup placement literally ruins this map. ammo/health is used in mvm to create strong defensive holds, but all of the ammo is placed at the sides of the map, making it INCREDIBLY inconvenient to go find ammo when you run out. this lost our team quite a few rounds. please re-evaluate where you put your pickups
    -you could learn a lot from looking at official maps. while i do appreciate that you're trying something different, it just isn't working
    -your crit melee bots could be vastly improved if they stuck together in clumps. it would make explosive class players' lives so much easier (and more fun!). having the crit axe pyros swarm around you and get you from behind was pretty irritating
    -only got to wave 3 - tank seemed really hard to take down since everyone kept on running out of ammo and scrambling around, trying to find the scarce resource
    -i would run another version with just pickup placement changed before you make any layout changes. it's a very serious issue

    EDIT: found some more things to complain about
    -wave 1 was hard to beat but i blame the pickups on that
    -wave 2, medics were super irritating because they healed their patients to full health and made them invincible. you should make their ubers last shorter, and maybe limit them to only heal giants
    -the only projectile robots you had were demos, which are the worst projectile robots. you should add hitscan enemies in the mix, they're probably the best to have

    March 23

    PLATEAU

    -played soldier (stock rl + buff banner + discp action)
    -first part where bots come in is really great and i like it, probably best first portion of the contest
    -rest of map is kinda bland though
    -the entirety of the map works to a degree, but it just isn't much fun to play
    -good job on the bots, unique + challenging + feel like something valve would put together. not too outlandish but is different enough from standard maps to feel good
    -for some reason you tame the detailing down in each new version. your church idea was so much cooler and i wish you had stuck with it. the finale doesn't really appear special in any way, since it's just a wooden shack at the end of a small gulch
    -upper portion to the first area could use some work, i would recommend making the center more focused. right now the main path is only 1/3 of the entire width of that section and it's easy to ignore if you're grabbing health/ammo
    -in every official map, the bots take some very narrow path to get to the bomb area, making it a lot easier to focus while players are a bit more panicked. i would consider this if you want to redesign your finale
    -taking the high ground at the finale just feels counter-intuitive since you have to walk past the main fight to get a vantage point, and then you're likely to get picked off by robots since nobody else is up there with you. there should be a much higher high ground that's closer to the spawn so players don't have to walk away and come back
    -the section around the death pit is kinda cool but it's hard to hold since the bots take a path that leads them away from the high ledges (which most players ended up not using anyways)
    -in fact most of the high ground in this map wasn't used very often when we played it, and i think it's because all of it is on the sides and the travel time doesn't seem worth it. i would try and make the high ground more centralized
    -the absolute highest ground on the map seemed pretty much useless because it was really far away from everything, meaning falloff/projectile speeds made it fairly undesirable
    -did not play past wave 3 because we had a server full of wimps
    -bots had a tendency to not take the main path as the bomb bot and i ended up backing up into enemies a lot
    -thanks for fixing the collision model on those construction lights

    March 31st (oh my god i might actually finish judging!)

    VENTUS
    -out of all the contest maps, this is the most official feeling one
    -very pretty, probably best aesthetics. didn't feel under-detailed even though it was (by normal map standards, not mvm standards)
    -gameplay felt like an mvm map should with proper height advantage and such, places players should stand felt obvious. maybe a bit more cover?
    -waves were pretty cool, diverse yet tame. some waves could stand to be easier and/or more spread out, look at the Extra Credits episode of "differences in scale vs. differences in kind"
    -the waves were particularly cool because when we failed one, we had to change our strategy and try again. usually, once we figured out the "proper" strategy it was easy to execute. this is the best thing you can have in an mvm map, have it be more of a puzzle rather than a test of strength
    -loads of clipping issues, bots liked to get stuck under things. you already knew that though
    -i like that you added incentive to get the jump height upgrade, don't know if that was intentional
    -slow-killing water was a bit unexpected, maybe make it a bit more noticeable somehow? I almost died because I didn't know I was being leeched
    -there's a area behind the docks near the hatch where you can get yourself stuck in
    -the long bridge is probably the worst part of this map. long sightline with no cover/height variation and it's easy to miss snipers trying to pick you off from the side. I would recommend doublecross-ifying the bridge to be more interesting, maybe tie in the construction pack? i don't know, but get creative!
    -going under the bridge was really really underused, and consequently it was kinda easy to miss engineers. maybe make that a bot route if it isn't already
    -played as soldier, seemed fine overall
    -remember to scramble your stair textures

    ISOLATION
    -played it again, had a lot more luck getting through (beat it)
    -played pyro
    -blasting enemies into the deathpits was kinda awkward but i've also never done pyro mvm so that could just be an engine thing
    -i think now that i've played the map with a good team i like it a bit more. it's still got some weak spots though
    -spies got stuck in upgrade room, was hilarious
    -nothing to say that i haven't before

    -DESTRUCT
    -played heavy
    -overall layout is okay, kinda boring though. bots only have one route and going into that trench while there are robots is basically death
    -waves are obnoxious, usually just one type of bot (pyro, soldier, demo etc) and it was pretty boring. definitely suffers from "differences in scale vs. differences in kind"
    -the long tunnel portion is interesting but maybe not as good as bigrock's because of how blind the corner is after it. going down the tunnel only to find 3 crocket soldiers coming right at you and nowhere to run is not fun
    -map suffers from lack of routes to take, usually only one staircase in certain areas to get up to the elevated ground
    -did not complete last round, display drivers crashed and i had to quit
    -the best sentry position we found was right underneath the bot drop-off zone, which was really weird
    -snipers stayed in their little roost in the upper-right, did not come down. make sure you put a fun_respawnroom up there for them to function properly
    -detailing has good ideas but seems like a mishmash of a bunch of different things. concrete buildings have wood stairs embedded into them, odd texture choices. the brick building where the bots come out is especially odd since the brick wall that fell out is still in one piece, and the brick wall is also 2 bricks thick
    -pickup positions seemed alright but you could maybe centralize them, also put health and ammo next to each other to make things easier on players
    -no cubemaps
    -tank looks weird when it does corners
    -probably the only contest map to not have a forward upgrade station, which is a shame because it's a really good idea
    -when crocket soldiers enter the tunnel it's impossible to enter the tunnel at all and the game turns into crocket crocket revolution, lost a lot of money that way. the crocket soldiers just weren't much fun at all
    -i had a hard time finding good heavy positions (close + cover). i also don't play heavy a whole lot so i don't know if this is a normal thing

    April 2

    MAELSTROM
    -played stock demo (pan)
    -i really like the detailing/ambiance, worst part of detailing is your displacements. they're really un-smooth and weird looking, and the alpha blending seems really random. I'd work on it
    -the door from spawn that has another door across from it probably needs a sign, since both doors are identical and it could confuse players for a split-second
    -the heavies that set you on fire were the most annoying bot I've encountered on any map of this contest, especially the large ones
    -flying guillotine scouts were also kinda annoying
    -overall your pop file has some good ideas but you seem to want a gimmick or be unusual with every bot type. it's not a sin to have a basic enemy
    -2 tanks at the same time was NUTS, i don't know how we even did that
    -forward upgrade station doesn't work if you just lost a round
    -layout seems okay
    -your deathpit probably killed me more times than any bots, i walked into it backwards on accident at least 6 times (i counted!). put a railing on it
    -i enjoyed this map, which is good. just needs some polish

    PLATEAU
    -played solider (same as before)
    -not really much to add from last time, it's just kinda not fun. i had a hard time staying mentally engaged while playing it
    -the laser soldiers are super annoying because it's hard to see projectiles and you can't reflect them, plus their resistance type is "bullet" which is counterintuitive to players (i know you can't control that, but sometimes you have to work with the game you're given)

    SLUDGE
    -played pyro (degreaser/flare/axtinguisher)
    -first wave is really long, i actually said "i just realized were still on wave one" out loud
    -rocket launchers should almost always be stock. that way players actually have an opportunity to see and dodge the rocket before it hits them, which is especially important with crockets
    -maybe less medics per heavy on one of the waves, i forget which. we failed it a lot though
    -fast tanks are still cool
    -last wave, the tank got taken down before it even entered the water. i think this is okay though, just maybe send it in not right at the beginning? it hardly set us back any
    -you could definitely do with less of almost every bot type. waves overstayed their welcome

    April 2 (again!)

    ATOMGRAD
    -played soldier
    -gave up on wave 3 (rtv)
    -wave 1 is almost all hitscan enemies and not fun
    -your "fodder" bot is scattergun scouts and they are far too powerful
    -lots and lots of support - spies were in every wave?
    -detailing has some cool ideas, but they're not superbly executed
    -the buildings in the first area are way off scale, i'm as tall as 1.5 floors?
    -no cover in the entire map
    -first area only has one small coverless highground to hold. the other high entrance has no real good defensive position and is also hidden (i didn't know it existed!)
    -too many powerful bots at the same time. it's okay to make weak bots
    -we missed almost half of the cash on the first round
    -layout is very overscaled, warehouse section is huge with no cover from the spam of 1000 robots (basically a deathtrap)
    -there's just too much stuff going on on a large scale
    -the bridge in the warehouse is used to reset robots, but it's impossible to use because of your bot choice and the scale
    -i'm not sure if i can be very critical of specific things on this map because it misses the main reasons that mvm is fun
    -to fix this map, rework the scale and add cover, make the warehouse more fun to fight in. the dish at the end is cool but is really big, you should add more stuff happening to it (height advantage over the dish or something)
    -remember that overscaling also causes falloff issues

    ISOLATION
    -played engineer again (pistol, no wrangler)
    -display drivers crashed + tf2 refused to launch, didn't finish
    -played with a good team this time. points still stand that engineer is really weird to play since i don't know where the strong spots are at all. i spent a lot of time moving my sentry back to take down giants
    -fun if you have a good team, but not very good if you don't
    -don't have much more to say that I didn't say earlier
    -cash from a tank fell into a deathpit and we lost the bonus because of it. don't know if that's fixable though
    -pyro bots should not be able to reflect rockets
    -waves are a bit boring, but work well with the map. if you make the map more easily defendable you could have much more interesting waves

    Since I've now played every map, I'm going to be posting non-final scores. These scores will adjust over time, and whatever I have at the deadline will be my final score. I will also write up summaries that cover the important stuff that my notes go over, as well as all of the notes for the mapmakers to examine at their will.

    Maps G & B Waves Aesthetics Technical
    Atomgrad 3 3 7 7
    Destruct 3 2 5 7
    Isolation 7 10 9 10
    Maelstrom 10 8 8 8
    Sludge 8 9 8 5
    Plateau 5 4 4 7
    Ventus 6 5 10 5


    Need to take a look at technical side of things.

    April 3

    VENTUS
    -played demo for 1 round, pyro for rest
    -did not complete (rtv)
    -waves are pretty hard actually, especially those huntsman snipers. huntsman snipers are bad because they're basically snipers without the big line to show you if they're aiming at you. also there's a LOT of them at once
    -the route below the bridge was used a few times by the robots, and the map was a lot more fun when they did. the bridge route is definitely much harder to defend
    -wave 2, way too many spies spawn
    -a lot of the waves were pretty fun but just too hard in a lot of cases. i blame the bridge mostly, since it's a huge sightline with no cover
    -good potential, but a few issues are creating a lot of not-fun. it shouldn't take a whole lot to make this map a lot better

    ISOLATION (again, guys?)
    -played demo
    -usually if we played a round and failed, we beat it the next time. this is good
    -fix your pickups and make highground quicker to access and you've got a good map on your hands

    DESTRUCT
    -played scout
    -that wave of all crit soldiers got the server to quit
    -sometimes the wave indicator during a lull period would show something other than what would happen. for instance, in the crit soldier wave, it showed 56 crit soldiers when infact the first 3-4 waves of soldiers were not crits
    -scout doesn't have a whole lot of room to run around in in the first area. look at mannworks' first area for an example of a good place for scouts
    -i want to be able to look out from spawn. i died a lot coming right out of the spawn because i got hit in the face with a rocket or something
    -no cubemaps

    Done!!!11

    Atomgrad
    Destruct
    Isolation
    Maelstrom
    Plateau
    Sludge
    Ventus
    EDIT April 16, 2017: Dropbox links died. Files mirrored on Google Drive.

    April 4

    MAELSTROM
    -engineer (stock)
    -engineer doesn't have obvious spots but still powerful ones. i like that
    -heavies that set you on fire when they shoot you are annoying
    -guillotine scouts are annoying because you can't really see them hit you, you just take damage and bleed
    -two tank wave is pretty hard
    -apparently you have some bot spawning issues
    -sometimes bots don't take the bomb path if bomb is already at hatch
    -also you mentioned that the deathpit is a bit wonky at times
    -missing cubemaps
    -fun, but needs tweaking

    PLATEAU
    -played pyro (degreaser/flare/axtinguish)
    -we gave up on wave 4
    -i actually had to use ubercharge canteens for once, which is nice
    -waves become really hard really quickly. i blame the map design, but the pop file certainly doesn't do it any favors
    -having a pyro is a must, we had 3
    -your map is a straight line with mirror symmetry, and it's really boring to play because there's hardly any corners or flanking opportunities. you just go straight at the enemy
    -you should change it so bots go up the ramp instead of down, bots with height advantage is almost always bad (only part in an official map that does this is coaltown finale)
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
  2. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

    Messages:
    3,920
    Positive Ratings:
    5,107
    Sludge
    Gameplay
    First wave feels kinda samey and overlong. The mega heavies break things up nicely but the rest of it is endless demo knights and not terribly fun
    Is it just me or are there lots of sentry busters?
    Second wave better, heavies still dull
    Third wave pretty cool. Saharan spy icon would be nice
    Tank icon
    Other waves good
    Pretty fun generally

    Knockback area perhaps op

    Sludge Aesthetics
    Remove the rain
    Lack of shitty details, at least

    Destruct
    Aesthetics

    Good grasp of the basics
    Lots of small mistakes
    Density of detail all off whack
    Not overdetailed
    No soundscapes?

    Technical
    Clipping pretty piss-poor actually. Either non- exist ant or massive and clumsy
    Particularly annoying in small corridors
    Console spam- HDR cube maps, props without collisions

    Ventus
    Aesthetics
    Damn nice, generally good, density of detail etc good.
    Lots of little mistakes, mostly lighting

    Clipping
    Good i guess.

    ATOMGRAD
    Aesthetics
    Pretty decent. Pretty basic.
    Excellent lighting for a night map, textbook case
    building at the start over-busy, picking out the robot spawns not as easy as it could have been
    some areas- floors in particular- very sparse
    some areas not well lit
    few more scatter props, overlays, that sort of little detail
    sounscapes, yay

    Technical
    Nodrawing decent but far too many big areas around the backs of buildings
    clipping not great, very basic, good vertically but poor horizontally, lots of little edges
    massive hole out of the map above spawn
    only a few console errors
    wireframes good, fps good
    in the doorways into the building, basically everything is rendered

    DESTRUCT
    technical
    nodrawing decent, lots of fiddly little surfaces that could have been got, though
    optimisation not great, still plenty of stuff displaying on the other side of the tunnel
    first area could also have been far more carefully optimised
    lots of console spam- errors in icons, hdr errors


    ISOLATION
    Aesthetics
    Good, bare,
    nice sound and soundscapes
    density of detail good, if low throughout
    disappointingly bare, even for mvm. comparitive size and complexity means that there are far more obvoious empty patches than usual. Shame
    i'm not sure i like the contrast between the black ground and white snow: it's a little too stark for me
    lights attract attention reasonably well but not fantastically. Partly a problem of the high buildings, i think, you need lights all over the place just to normalise
    lovely spawn

    Technical
    plenty of nodrawing as needed
    good optimisation
    spawn overlays don't seem to be working
    clipping not good, lots of edges and corners
    no console spam

    MAELSTROM
    as bare as Isolation, but the rich and varied colours make it seem less so, somehow?
    feels like a lavish, living environment
    plenty of strange prop placements- convenient piles of barrels, fucking containers
    some slightly ugly brushwork, which really lets it down at times.
    overall very nice, just needs a bit of polish

    technical
    no more nodraw needed, really
    some small console spam
    Clipping very variable. Some areas good, some really not.
    optimisation about as good as it can be, really


    PLATEU
    very simple, underdetailed
    brushwork big and clumsy
    some nice use of the base tf2 style though
    More reference from maps like dustbowl, and more time on detailing could have made this quite nice
    nothing can really disguise that it's a big box with things in
    sure are a lot of owls and crows for the desert

    not very much nodraw needed, at least partially due to few brushes
    layout TERRIBLE for optimisation
    clipping pretty good- not much stuff, but i never caught on it.
    Watch your displacements- some small patches are too steeply angled to walk on

    SLUDGE

    VENTUS

    destruct gameplay

    only one route, waves are shitty

    maelstrom gameplay

    i like starting with a giant
    the pit is broken it just chucks me away instead of letting me jump in
    flying guillotine unnecessary
    some of the waves are too
    forward thing stops working
    tanks are bad
    i don't like the tanks
    if they took the same route so you didn't have to split the teams it would be fine
    everything is pointlessly whack
    whats the point of the crit whip soldiers? completely useless
    i like how it gives you plenty of stuff
    slightly too small, in places
    outer routes don't seem to be used often


    plateau
    interesting heights
    simple and clean- far too much so
    same with bots
    had a crit canister entire way through, never needed it
    base layout is good but desperately needs twists and turns and asymmetry
    deathpit good

    sludge
    not as bare as some
    waves are super long
    kinda monochrome, needs a bit more colour
    trees kinda pathetic
    forward thing broken
    density of detail pretty whack, lots of unneeded detail rooms off to the sides
    music is nice
    crashing display drivers?
    first wave super long and a little dull really

    crit liberty sucks
    aside from the first abd the occasional miss waves are good, nice balance of "interesting" and "not dumb"
    dont like the layout, kinda just two crossed paths.
    i have a love of big payouts of cash
    i like the last-but-one wave, hunting medics is fun

    atomgrad
    holograms stay on
    sentry busters get stuck

    ISOLATION
    samureye, please
    i like the first wave feels like an official first wave
    doesnt feel as obsessed with being hard
    roof is very powerful position
    not much use of side routes
    lot of cash lost to the deathpit
    possibly too easy?
    final wave sharply more difficult
    should play more

    Atomgrad
    Screenshots

    Gameplay
    Original score: 5
    Adjusted score: 5
    I suppose it's good enough. The start area has plenty of interesting routes and room to maneuver. All classes are viable, though close-range classes can do little more than hit and run.
    I don't like the middle area. It's too slow to move between levels, and if you end up below the wave of bots there's basically nothing you can do, except climb slowly up under harassing fire
    The last area is alright, but not very good. Players are constantly trapped at the bottom of a bowl, with cover and height in favour of the robots. This would be painful to defend against human enemies, let alone dozens of robots.
    They can't feel fun, you don't need to give them height advantages. The massive amount of ammo makes one sentry position blindingly obvious, and sentry busters can't reach it.
    The fences at last also make climbing to the height advantage nothing short of painful. Notice how all official mvm maps make the high ground about as accessible to humans as bots?
    Overall it's pretty overscaled. I feel like there was something good here, it just needed more time.

    Waves
    Original score: 2
    Adjusted score: 3
    I tried, man, i tried. Never got past wave three.
    I can't even say i enjoyed the waves i did play. You're unable to focus on any one threat because there's always a constant wave of scouts or snipers sweeping through. Giants and tanks are just painful to fight when you have to constantly break away from them to deal with harassers. This is all exaggerated by the advantages to the bots meaning you end up falling back often and quickly.
    All the waves are too long and too difficult. Staggering them might have made them easier, but they'd still be painfully long. They don't even vary much. One big guy and lots of little guys. It might pick up after wave three... but i've played this map perhaps three times as much as any other, and never beat wave three. It empties servers.

    Aesthetics
    Original score: 6
    Adjusted score: 8
    Pretty decent. Pretty basic. It's got some excellent lighting for a night map, a textbook case. A plethora of little details let it down though. Containers in impossible places, and such. I also think the super-bright snow looks strange, like the floor's not being rendered.
    The bot spawn is over-busy, picking out the robot spawns not as easy as it could have been. As Idolon pointed out, the scale on the windows are off. Opposite, there's a brick building only visible from one side.
    Some areas- floors in particular- are very sparse
    Soundscapes are nice, and set the scene well.
    I think it could have been improved with a few more scatter props, overlays, that sort of little detail.

    Technical
    Original score: 5
    Adjusted score: 7
    • Holograms stay on.
    • sentry busters get stuck at the plank bridge below the rocket, making the sentry position directly above the pit very powerful.
    • Nodrawing decent but far too many big areas around the backs of buildings are drawn.
    • Clipping not great, very basic, good vertically but poor horizontally, lots of little edges. Messy around props at finale.
    • Massive hole out of the map above spawn. You can jump under the map and all.
    • Only a few console errors.
    • Wireframes good, fps good.
    • In the doorways into the building, basically everything is rendered

    Destruct
    Screenshots

    Gameplay
    Original score: 2
    Adjusted score: 3
    Uuuuuuuuhhhh, i really don't know what to say about this. Only one route, limited heights, sentry/heavy positions that invalidate all the other players, broken spawns, the finale being a pain to defend thanks to the bots having a height advantage. It's just kind of a drag really. Sorry. I know this isn't helpful, but the problems are big enough to be easily, sweepingly described.

    Waves
    Original score: 3
    Adjusted score: 4
    Again, uuuuuuuhh. Most of the waves are ridiculously easy, with players barely needing to fall back from their very foremost prepared positions. I took my hand off the keyboard to answer the phone and didn't need to put it back on. I didn't take a single point of damage while i had ammo left. And then the crit solders come along, and instakill everything.

    Aesthetics
    Original score: 5
    Adjusted score: 5
    I think there's a solid grasp of the basics here, although what lets the map down is the massive amount of small niggling mistakes.
    One of the main problems is that not much thought seems to have gone into what makes realistic sense. Some of the buildings are a bit of a mishmash of detail types. I like the use of the basic tf2 style, although i think you need a little more practice with it.
    The debris around the destroyed section is kind of hideous.
    The density of detail is all off whack- nothing draws the eye right. Detail is all over the place. As someone said, there's a overlay on every wall.
    Also, no soundscapes?

    Technical
    Original score: 4
    Adjusted score: 6
    • Clipping pretty piss-poor actually. Either non-existant or massive and clumsy
    • Particularly annoying in small corridors
    • Console spam- HDR cube maps, props without collisions
    • Nodrawing decent, lots of fiddly little surfaces that could have been got, though
    • Optimisation not great, still plenty of stuff displaying on the other side of the tunnel
    • First area could also have been far more carefully optimised
    • lots of console spam- errors in icons, hdr errors
    • Some of the crit soldiers... don't.

    Isolation
    Screenshots.

    Gameplay
    Original Score: 8
    Adjusted score: 10
    The best, i guess. That might just be because most waves are kinda easy, and there's plenty of money and i like that, but the layout is good too. I feel like it breaks down the usual "spine" mechanic for the raised side, which works really well.
    The roof is a very powerful position, and there's not much use of side routes. It feels wider than most mvm maps, which draws attention to how relatively bad flanking in mvm is: although i bet it's a good spy map.
    The deathpits are pretty good but it's a shame so many bots just go miles away from them.
    The finale is pretty big, snipers are more powerful than they should be.

    Waves
    Original score: 8
    Adjusted score: 10
    I like the first wave. It feels like an official first wave. That kind of hangs over to the rest of the map- the difficulty curve is a little off whack but I don't think there's really a bum note anywhere here? Some feel obsessed with being wacky/difficult, but this hits the sweet spot between "interesting" and "reasonable".
    I think you might be too generous with your rewards- 1100 coins for the tank?
    Also, Samur-eye, please.

    Aesthetics
    Original score: 7
    Adjusted score: 8
    Good, bare, probably too bare. Even for mvm. Comparitive size and complexity means that there are far more obvoious empty patches than usual. Shame, really, particularly given your usual detail standard.
    I'm not sure i like the contrast between the black ground and white snow: it's a little too stark for me. Sounds and soundscapes are nice.
    Density of detail is good, if low throughout. The lights attract attention reasonably well but not fantastically. Partly a problem of the high buildings, i think, you need lights all over the place just to normalise.
    Lovely spawn. Lovely fire.

    Technical
    Original score: 7
    Adjusted score: 10
    • Plenty of nodrawing as needed
    • Good optimisation
    • Spawn overlays don't seem to be working
    • Clipping not good, lots of edges and corners
    • No console spam

    Maelstrom
    Screenshots

    Gameplay
    Original score: 7
    Adjusted score: 9
    I think the basic layout is good, but there's some definite mis-hits. Firstly, it's slightly too small in places, particularly in the less used routes. This doesn't matter so much because the side routes get used very rarely- I almost never took any path but the bot paths. It also seems a little light on height differences, with not much actual combat taking place at much of an angle. No really good sentry positions, though that might just be my inexperience as an engineer: i just threw sentries down roughly in the path of the bots.

    Waves
    Original score: 5
    Adjusted score: 6
    In my notes for this I have, in capitals, "EVERYTHING IS POINTLESSLY WHACK" which i think basically sums it up. It seems that nearly everything has some gimmick or change that means that playing on this map is a constant procss of learning what the hell is happening THIS wave. For example, why are the scouts armed with flying guillotines? It feels like an unwelcome extension of the "horde of small allies" philosophy to give them bleed for no reason. Also, the whip soldiers? Why whips?
    That said, I like the game starting with a giant, and I like the gnome heavies.
    I also like the large amounts of cash: I think the difficulty is pretty reasonably matched. Once you get used to the crazy, it's a above-average difficulty map, with a good amount of rewards. It's just... the crazy is annoying.
    I don't like the tanks. You're forced to split the team, the routes are pretty short, and they mess up the whole wave that follows them.


    Aesthetics
    Original score: 8
    Adjusted score: 9

    It may be as bare as Isolation, but the rich and varied colours make it seem less so, somehow? It feels like a lavish, living environment as much as anywhere does, with some very smart decsisions made as to where to allocate the prop budget. The soundscapes are well chosen and placed, and the whole place feels more like a real place than any other map, i think.
    It's far from perfect. There's plenty of strange prop placements- convenient piles of barrels, fucking containers. Some of the map, particularly the side buildings, also has some slightly ugly, clumsy brushwork, which really lets it down at times.
    Overall very nice, just needs a bit of polish to be, well, valve-quality.

    Technical
    Original score: 6
    Adjusted score: 9
    • No more nodraw needed.
    • Some small console spam
    • Clipping very variable. Some areas good, some really not.
    • Optimisation about as good as it can be, really
    • The forward upgrade station only worked sometimes.
    • Bots that fell into the "pit" often kind of just stared out, like dogs looking for you to drop a bit of ham. It was almost sweet.

    Plateau
    Screenshots

    Gameplay
    Original score: 4
    Adjusted score: 5
    It's far too simple and clean, far too much of just a single big arena. There's some redeeming features- interesting heights, and i love the deathpit, the deathpit is really well done, i think, but otherwise it's just a bit too vanilla to be much fun.
    The symmetry really hurts it. Apart from anything else, It means that the bot routes can never be truly difficult or interesting, as they're practically the same.

    Waves
    Original score: 3
    Adjusted score: 4
    Again with the bots, it's far too vanilla. I've berated other maps for going out of their way to be interesting and crazy, but there wasn't really any changes to the standard pattern. Those that there were didn't seem to be mentioned or have attention drawn to them in any way- these scouts were just tougher, for no reason.
    It's also pretty easy. I had a crit canister the entire way through, never needed it.

    Aesthetics
    Original score: 4
    Adjusted score: 5
    It's very simple, and actively under-detailed. Some of the brushwork is big and clumsy, and props are generally well-placed but limited.
    I sense some nice use of the base tf2 style though. More reference from maps like dustbowl, and more time on detailing could have made this quite nice. Ultimately, though, nothing can really disguise that it's a big box with things in
    I think your soundscapes are broken- sure are a lot of owls and crows for the desert.

    Technical
    Original score: 6
    Adjusted score: 9
    • Not very much nodraw needed, at least partially due to few brushes.
    • Layout is TERRIBLE for optimisation
    • Clipping pretty good- not much stuff, but i never caught on it.
    • Watch your displacements- some small patches are too steeply angled to walk on.

    Sludge
    Screenshots

    Gameplay
    Original Score: 7
    Adjusted score: 9
    I guess the layout is alright? It's good enough. Some bits of it didn't really feel right, particularly the staircases, which are a bit tight. I think there's too much of a dichotomy in the height differences- you're either high up and killing stuff or low down and things are shooting you. Possibly another route in/out of the water would be good.
    I think the knockback area is OP, particularly when the bots try and take the flag through it.

    Waves
    Original score: 7
    Adjusted score: 9
    The first wave is what loses you the points here. It's super long and a little dull really. There's a few other misses- crit liberty launchers are basically instakill. Mostly, though, it's very fun. A nice balance of "interesting" and "not dumb". Possibly it's a bit easy, or the rewards are too high.

    Aesthetics
    Original Score: 7
    Adjusted score: 8
    It's not as bare as some mvm maps, but i still don't like it. Everything seems to be the same shade, a variation on an ugly grey-brown. It needs a bit more colour, I think.
    Something about the trees feels kinda pathetic, compared to maelstrom. Like there's only a few trees there and they're dying.
    Density of detail is pretty whack, lots of unneeded detail rooms off to the sides.
    The music is nice.

    Technical
    Original score: 6
    Adjusted score: 9
    • What in gods name is up with those shadows?
    • Forward upgrade station seems to break sometimes.
    • Clipping seems... actually good, god forbid. I'd like to see the rock collisions cleaned up.
    • Great big load of console spam.
    • Optimisation not great, but couldn't really be.

    [IRC] doc : There is very little cover and the bots beeline right to the bomb, they only need to make 4 turns total
    engineers good
    hard to judge waves when routes are broken
    first wave pretty alright, the pyros peak it nicely and the heavies are interesting while being easily readable
    some console spam
    no cover + snipers = bad
    endless swarm of ineffectuals prevent you from reasonably combatng real threats
    not as bad as atomgrad but the snipers are just an annoyance
    broken nav means constant outflanking
    wave 2 very hard and painful. far too many archers
    later waves are better
    far out routes rarely used
    overscaled
    engie position really hard to hit

    isolation
    p good
    wide but not too wide
    outer routes not used often
    deathpits good
    waves nice like theming
    tank wave nice but maybe too easy? 1100 coins too generous
    finale v big, snipers v powerful

    destruct

    Ventus

    Gameplay
    Original score: 5
    Adjusted score: 6
    So first of all, some of the routes seem to be broken? As in, the bots just go straight for the hatch in the earlier waves. That makes them dramatically more difficult. If you can't hold the beach you have to fall back all the way to your spawn, as bots flank through the docks, making the bridge unholdable.
    There's no cover: it's all so open. Which, when 12+ archers are bearing down on you, basically means that you play perfectly or die. More on the archers later.
    The further out routes are rarely used: in addition the engineer locations are really difficult to combat. I think we never broke an engineer's hold on an area.
    I think it might be generally overscaled.

    Waves
    Original Score: 4
    Adjusted score: 5
    It's hard to judge waves when routes are broken. The first wave pretty alright, the pyros peak it nicely and the heavies are interesting while being easily readable. It goes downhill from there, though. The snipers are really bad- no cover, and an endless swarm of ineffectuals prevent you from reasonably combating real threats. We could never fight off the engineers, because we were always dealing with the waves upon waves of standard troops. There's no downtime. It's not as bad as Atomgrad but the snipers are just an annoyance.


    Aesthetics
    Original score: 9
    Adjusted score: 10

    What can i say? Pretty damn beautiful, basically. Watch the shadows and shadowing on some props, and some spytech or something to guard at the finale would be nice. I also still don't like the brown brick building, but otherwise, great.

    Technical
    Original Score: 6
    Adjusted score: 9
    • Broken routes
    • Some console spam
    • Clipping isn't great, really.
    • No more nodraw needed, though.
    • As i mentioned before, the shadows are frequently off.

    ORIGINAL SCORES
    Maps G & B Waves Aesthetics Technical
    Atomgrad 4 2 6 5
    Destruct 2 3 5 4
    Isolation 8 8 7 7
    Maelstrom 7 5 8 6
    Plateau 4 3 4 6
    Sludge 7 7 7 6
    Ventus 5 4 9 6


    Adjusted, Final scores
    Maps G & B Waves Aesthetics Technical
    Atomgrad 5 3 8 7
    Destruct 3 4 5 6
    Isolation 10 10 8 10
    Maelstrom 9 6 9 9
    Plateau 5 4 5 9
    Sludge 9 9 8 9
    Ventus 6 5 10 9


    LeSwordfish Judges Maps

    Note on scoring
    Each map for every category has two scores. One is the original score- what i would rate it out of ten. The other is the final score, the original score adjusted to fit the contest judging standards. The adjusted score is the final one.

    Atomgrad
    Screenshots

    Gameplay
    Original score: 5
    Adjusted score: 5
    I suppose it's good enough. The start area has plenty of interesting routes and room to maneuver. All classes are viable, though close-range classes can do little more than hit and run.
    I don't like the middle area. It's too slow to move between levels, and if you end up below the wave of bots there's basically nothing you can do, except climb slowly up under harassing fire
    The last area is alright, but not very good. Players are constantly trapped at the bottom of a bowl, with cover and height in favour of the robots. This would be painful to defend against human enemies, let alone dozens of robots.
    They can't feel fun, you don't need to give them height advantages. The massive amount of ammo makes one sentry position blindingly obvious, and sentry busters can't reach it.
    The fences at last also make climbing to the height advantage nothing short of painful. Notice how all official mvm maps make the high ground about as accessible to humans as bots?
    Overall it's pretty overscaled. I feel like there was something good here, it just needed more time.

    Waves
    Original score: 2
    Adjusted score: 3
    I tried, man, i tried. Never got past wave three.
    I can't even say i enjoyed the waves i did play. You're unable to focus on any one threat because there's always a constant wave of scouts or snipers sweeping through. Giants and tanks are just painful to fight when you have to constantly break away from them to deal with harassers. This is all exaggerated by the advantages to the bots meaning you end up falling back often and quickly.
    All the waves are too long and too difficult. Staggering them might have made them easier, but they'd still be painfully long. They don't even vary much. One big guy and lots of little guys. It might pick up after wave three... but i've played this map perhaps three times as much as any other, and never beat wave three. It empties servers.

    Aesthetics
    Original score: 6
    Adjusted score: 8
    Pretty decent. Pretty basic. It's got some excellent lighting for a night map, a textbook case. A plethora of little details let it down though. Containers in impossible places, and such. I also think the super-bright snow looks strange, like the floor's not being rendered.
    The bot spawn is over-busy, picking out the robot spawns not as easy as it could have been. As Idolon pointed out, the scale on the windows are off. Opposite, there's a brick building only visible from one side.
    Some areas- floors in particular- are very sparse
    Soundscapes are nice, and set the scene well.
    I think it could have been improved with a few more scatter props, overlays, that sort of little detail.

    Technical
    Original score: 5
    Adjusted score: 7
    • Holograms stay on.
    • sentry busters get stuck at the plank bridge below the rocket, making the sentry position directly above the pit very powerful.
    • Nodrawing decent but far too many big areas around the backs of buildings are drawn.
    • Clipping not great, very basic, good vertically but poor horizontally, lots of little edges. Messy around props at finale.
    • Massive hole out of the map above spawn. You can jump under the map and all.
    • Only a few console errors.
    • Wireframes good, fps good.
    • In the doorways into the building, basically everything is rendered

    Destruct
    Screenshots

    Gameplay
    Original score: 2
    Adjusted score: 3
    Uuuuuuuuhhhh, i really don't know what to say about this. Only one route, limited heights, sentry/heavy positions that invalidate all the other players, broken spawns, the finale being a pain to defend thanks to the bots having a height advantage. It's just kind of a drag really. Sorry. I know this isn't helpful, but the problems are big enough to be easily, sweepingly described.

    Waves
    Original score: 3
    Adjusted score: 4
    Again, uuuuuuuhh. Most of the waves are ridiculously easy, with players barely needing to fall back from their very foremost prepared positions. I took my hand off the keyboard to answer the phone and didn't need to put it back on. I didn't take a single point of damage while i had ammo left. And then the crit solders come along, and instakill everything.

    Aesthetics
    Original score: 5
    Adjusted score: 5
    I think there's a solid grasp of the basics here, although what lets the map down is the massive amount of small niggling mistakes.
    One of the main problems is that not much thought seems to have gone into what makes realistic sense. Some of the buildings are a bit of a mishmash of detail types. I like the use of the basic tf2 style, although i think you need a little more practice with it.
    The debris around the destroyed section is kind of hideous.
    The density of detail is all off whack- nothing draws the eye right. Detail is all over the place. As someone said, there's a overlay on every wall.
    Also, no soundscapes?

    Technical
    Original score: 4
    Adjusted score: 6
    • Clipping pretty piss-poor actually. Either non-existant or massive and clumsy
    • Particularly annoying in small corridors
    • Console spam- HDR cube maps, props without collisions
    • Nodrawing decent, lots of fiddly little surfaces that could have been got, though
    • Optimisation not great, still plenty of stuff displaying on the other side of the tunnel
    • First area could also have been far more carefully optimised
    • lots of console spam- errors in icons, hdr errors
    • Some of the crit soldiers... don't.

    Isolation
    Screenshots.

    Gameplay
    Original Score: 8
    Adjusted score: 10
    The best, i guess. That might just be because most waves are kinda easy, and there's plenty of money and i like that, but the layout is good too. I feel like it breaks down the usual "spine" mechanic for the raised side, which works really well.
    The roof is a very powerful position, and there's not much use of side routes. It feels wider than most mvm maps, which draws attention to how relatively bad flanking in mvm is: although i bet it's a good spy map.
    The deathpits are pretty good but it's a shame so many bots just go miles away from them.
    The finale is pretty big, snipers are more powerful than they should be.

    Waves
    Original score: 8
    Adjusted score: 10
    I like the first wave. It feels like an official first wave. That kind of hangs over to the rest of the map- the difficulty curve is a little off whack but I don't think there's really a bum note anywhere here? Some feel obsessed with being wacky/difficult, but this hits the sweet spot between "interesting" and "reasonable".
    I think you might be too generous with your rewards- 1100 coins for the tank?
    Also, Samur-eye, please.

    Aesthetics
    Original score: 7
    Adjusted score: 8
    Good, bare, probably too bare. Even for mvm. Comparitive size and complexity means that there are far more obvoious empty patches than usual. Shame, really, particularly given your usual detail standard.
    I'm not sure i like the contrast between the black ground and white snow: it's a little too stark for me. Sounds and soundscapes are nice.
    Density of detail is good, if low throughout. The lights attract attention reasonably well but not fantastically. Partly a problem of the high buildings, i think, you need lights all over the place just to normalise.
    Lovely spawn. Lovely fire.

    Technical
    Original score: 7
    Adjusted score: 10
    • Plenty of nodrawing as needed
    • Good optimisation
    • Spawn overlays don't seem to be working
    • Clipping not good, lots of edges and corners
    • No console spam

    Maelstrom
    Screenshots

    Gameplay
    Original score: 7
    Adjusted score: 9
    I think the basic layout is good, but there's some definite mis-hits. Firstly, it's slightly too small in places, particularly in the less used routes. This doesn't matter so much because the side routes get used very rarely- I almost never took any path but the bot paths. It also seems a little light on height differences, with not much actual combat taking place at much of an angle. No really good sentry positions, though that might just be my inexperience as an engineer: i just threw sentries down roughly in the path of the bots.

    Waves
    Original score: 5
    Adjusted score: 6
    In my notes for this I have, in capitals, "EVERYTHING IS POINTLESSLY WHACK" which i think basically sums it up. It seems that nearly everything has some gimmick or change that means that playing on this map is a constant procss of learning what the hell is happening THIS wave. For example, why are the scouts armed with flying guillotines? It feels like an unwelcome extension of the "horde of small allies" philosophy to give them bleed for no reason. Also, the whip soldiers? Why whips?
    That said, I like the game starting with a giant, and I like the gnome heavies.
    I also like the large amounts of cash: I think the difficulty is pretty reasonably matched. Once you get used to the crazy, it's a above-average difficulty map, with a good amount of rewards. It's just... the crazy is annoying.
    I don't like the tanks. You're forced to split the team, the routes are pretty short, and they mess up the whole wave that follows them.


    Aesthetics
    Original score: 8
    Adjusted score: 9

    It may be as bare as Isolation, but the rich and varied colours make it seem less so, somehow? It feels like a lavish, living environment as much as anywhere does, with some very smart decsisions made as to where to allocate the prop budget. The soundscapes are well chosen and placed, and the whole place feels more like a real place than any other map, i think.
    It's far from perfect. There's plenty of strange prop placements- convenient piles of barrels, fucking containers. Some of the map, particularly the side buildings, also has some slightly ugly, clumsy brushwork, which really lets it down at times.
    Overall very nice, just needs a bit of polish to be, well, valve-quality.

    Technical
    Original score: 6
    Adjusted score: 9
    • No more nodraw needed.
    • Some small console spam
    • Clipping very variable. Some areas good, some really not.
    • Optimisation about as good as it can be, really
    • The forward upgrade station only worked sometimes.
    • Bots that fell into the "pit" often kind of just stared out, like dogs looking for you to drop a bit of ham. It was almost sweet.

    Plateau
    Screenshots

    Gameplay
    Original score: 4
    Adjusted score: 5
    It's far too simple and clean, far too much of just a single big arena. There's some redeeming features- interesting heights, and i love the deathpit, the deathpit is really well done, i think, but otherwise it's just a bit too vanilla to be much fun.
    The symmetry really hurts it. Apart from anything else, It means that the bot routes can never be truly difficult or interesting, as they're practically the same.

    Waves
    Original score: 3
    Adjusted score: 4
    Again with the bots, it's far too vanilla. I've berated other maps for going out of their way to be interesting and crazy, but there wasn't really any changes to the standard pattern. Those that there were didn't seem to be mentioned or have attention drawn to them in any way- these scouts were just tougher, for no reason.
    It's also pretty easy. I had a crit canister the entire way through, never needed it.

    Aesthetics
    Original score: 4
    Adjusted score: 5
    It's very simple, and actively under-detailed. Some of the brushwork is big and clumsy, and props are generally well-placed but limited.
    I sense some nice use of the base tf2 style though. More reference from maps like dustbowl, and more time on detailing could have made this quite nice. Ultimately, though, nothing can really disguise that it's a big box with things in
    I think your soundscapes are broken- sure are a lot of owls and crows for the desert.

    Technical
    Original score: 6
    Adjusted score: 9
    • Not very much nodraw needed, at least partially due to few brushes.
    • Layout is TERRIBLE for optimisation
    • Clipping pretty good- not much stuff, but i never caught on it.
    • Watch your displacements- some small patches are too steeply angled to walk on.
    [/QUOTE]

    Sludge
    Screenshots

    Gameplay
    Original Score: 7
    Adjusted score: 9
    I guess the layout is alright? It's good enough. Some bits of it didn't really feel right, particularly the staircases, which are a bit tight. I think there's too much of a dichotomy in the height differences- you're either high up and killing stuff or low down and things are shooting you. Possibly another route in/out of the water would be good.
    I think the knockback area is OP, particularly when the bots try and take the flag through it.

    Waves
    Original score: 7
    Adjusted score: 9
    The first wave is what loses you the points here. It's super long and a little dull really. There's a few other misses- crit liberty launchers are basically instakill. Mostly, though, it's very fun. A nice balance of "interesting" and "not dumb". Possibly it's a bit easy, or the rewards are too high.

    Aesthetics
    Original Score: 7
    Adjusted score: 8
    It's not as bare as some mvm maps, but i still don't like it. Everything seems to be the same shade, a variation on an ugly grey-brown. It needs a bit more colour, I think.
    Something about the trees feels kinda pathetic, compared to maelstrom. Like there's only a few trees there and they're dying.
    Density of detail is pretty whack, lots of unneeded detail rooms off to the sides.
    The music is nice.

    Technical
    Original score: 6
    Adjusted score: 9
    • What in gods name is up with those shadows?
    • Forward upgrade station seems to break sometimes.
    • Clipping seems... actually good, god forbid. I'd like to see the rock collisions cleaned up.
    • Great big load of console spam.
    • Optimisation not great, but couldn't really be.

    Ventus
    Screenshots

    Gameplay
    Original score: 5
    Adjusted score: 6
    So first of all, some of the routes seem to be broken? As in, the bots just go straight for the hatch in the earlier waves. That makes them dramatically more difficult. If you can't hold the beach you have to fall back all the way to your spawn, as bots flank through the docks, making the bridge unholdable.
    There's no cover: it's all so open. Which, when 12+ archers are bearing down on you, basically means that you play perfectly or die. More on the archers later.
    The further out routes are rarely used: in addition the engineer locations are really difficult to combat. I think we never broke an engineer's hold on an area.
    I think it might be generally overscaled.

    Waves
    Original Score: 4
    Adjusted score: 5
    It's hard to judge waves when routes are broken. The first wave pretty alright, the pyros peak it nicely and the heavies are interesting while being easily readable. It goes downhill from there, though. The snipers are really bad- no cover, and an endless swarm of ineffectuals prevent you from reasonably combating real threats. We could never fight off the engineers, because we were always dealing with the waves upon waves of standard troops. There's no downtime. It's not as bad as Atomgrad but the snipers are just an annoyance.

    Aesthetics
    Original score: 9
    Adjusted score: 10

    What can i say? Pretty damn beautiful, basically. Watch the shadows and shadowing on some props, and some spytech or something to guard at the finale would be nice. I also still don't like the brown brick building, but otherwise, great.

    Technical
    Original Score: 6
    Adjusted score: 9
    • Broken routes
    • Some console spam
    • Clipping isn't great, really.
    • No more nodraw needed, though.
    • As i mentioned before, the shadows are frequently off.


    Scores

    Original
    Maps G & B Waves Aesthetics Technical
    Atomgrad 4 2 6 5
    Destruct 2 3 5 4
    Isolation 8 8 7 7
    Maelstrom 7 5 8 6
    Plateau 4 3 4 6
    Sludge 7 7 7 6
    Ventus 5 4 9 6


    Final
    Maps G & B Waves Aesthetics Technical
    Atomgrad 5 3 8 7
    Destruct 3 4 5 6
    Isolation 10 10 8 10
    Maelstrom 9 6 9 9
    Plateau 5 4 5 9
    Sludge 9 9 8 9
    Ventus 6 5 10 9
     
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    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 9, 2013
  3. Seba

    aa Seba DR. BIG FUCKER, PHD

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    Oh my God these posts are huge
     
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  4. Threat Level Midnight

    Threat Level Midnight L1: Registered

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    Wow didn't realize how much went into judging.
     
  5. Micnax

    aa Micnax L0: Terribly Lazy Mapper

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    The major contests are srs business
     
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  6. Muddy

    Server Staff Muddy Muddy

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    You bumped a 4 year old thread just to say that?
     
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  7. LeSwordfish

    aa LeSwordfish semi-trained quasi-professional

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    In fairness, we did link these threads in the OP of the contest thread: they're still relevant.

    Good to see I've not lost any coherency.
     
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  8. Threat Level Midnight

    Threat Level Midnight L1: Registered

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    I came here to see how the new MvM mapping contest would be judged. I didn't notice how long ago the last MvM contest happened. I guess these things are pretty rare!
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017