Dustbowl Rework - Proposal

[Loose Noose]

Proposal
Dustbowl is sorely outdated so it is high time we did something to bring it into the modern TF era. I have thousands of hours in TF2 but next to none in Hammer, so there is no way I could personally do a project this big in any reasonable time frame.

The changes needed would be so radical that it would not be Dustbowl anymore, more just flavored like it.
Think of it as a "Cooler Daniel" type situation.


Example Fixes
The playable space in all three sections is horrendously small, even compared to other maps released in 2007. Everything would need to be bulldozed and resized.



Researched Problems
These are just examples for the first stage but these persist throughout the entire map.

- Unlike every other Attack/Defense map, there is no 'staging area' that BLU can take over when the round starts. This results in a lot of fighting being done in BLU's spawn until they are able to reach the first point.


- BLU can see the first capture point almost immediately out of spawn and ALL the alternative routes lead out into an open area with almost no cover, making one giant choke point.


- Interiors, but especially cave connectors, need to be more than quadrupled in space in most instances.


- RED defense areas are claustrophobic and awkward to hold for the same small play space problems. There is also an issue of back capping, for if RED is wiped out on the first point BLU can reach the second point and capture before RED is halfway through their re-spawn timers.

- There is typically only one way for either team to approach a point and the map offers little vertical play.

 

[Idolon]

I think the time spent on this project would be better spent making an original project. A modernized Dustbowl could be an interesting idea, but the changes you're proposing would pretty fundamentally change the identity of the map. You may as well start from scratch, using Dustbowl as a guideline.

(I also think current Dustbowl has its place in TF2, as different maps in a multiplayer game should offer players unique styles of play and experiences. In no way do I think a modernized Dustbowl should replace standard Dustbowl.)

 

[Loose Noose]

I think the time spent on this project would be better spent making an original project. A modernized Dustbowl could be an interesting idea, but the changes you're proposing would pretty fundamentally change the identity of the map. You may as well start from scratch, using Dustbowl as a guideline.

(I also think current Dustbowl has its place in TF2, as different maps in a multiplayer game should offer players unique styles of play and experiences. In no way do I think a modernized Dustbowl should replace standard Dustbowl.)

I had the same thought while getting my info together, just forgot to mention that here. I didn't even want to call the new version "Dustbowl" for that reason so I will edit this doc to make that clear.

 

[zythe_]

the changes you propose seem interesting and intriguing, but i agree with idolons statement that you'd take away the maps identity and that dustbowl has its place in tf2.

I made a map called cp_probowl, which is exactly what you'd think it is, just dustbowl re-skinned to the alpine theme, and some gameplay changes. When i made this map i didnt really try to "fix" the map, more of just making it more interesting and balanced. To fix the map id have to rip out so much stuff and basically just redesign the map, and if i where to do that i would start from scratch.

Here is what i changed on the B point of the first stage. As you mentioned: "RED defense areas are claustrophobic and awkward to hold". So instead of redesigning the point completely i moved the point outside next to the building and added 2 new doorways on that building for blu to attack from. By moving the point outside, reds defense area is now the balcony type "buildings" where spawn is, that originally saw little play on regular dustbowl because you cant see/defenc the point from the balcony next to the round silo thing. This makes defending for red more interesting and the point overall a bit more balanced.

Point A on stage 2 had some changes made to it, there are now stairs for red to easily walk up to A and the cutter of props you had to jump up behind the building was streamlined into stairs, the biggest change on A doesent even affect A itself all that much but instead affects B.

Blue Now has a foward spawn with 2 exists (marked with blue squares). there were some unused spawnpoints in there so i decided to use them and make a foward spawn.

There's many more changes to all the different points, and I did my best to improve the map but also still have it be dustbowl. There's an update in the works that adds more changes to the map such as:
-a bridge on S1A (stage 1 A) that connects the two halves of the trench
-a set of stairs on S3B that gives blue a new route instead of having to push though only one corner
-a window on S3B for red spawn that lets them see on the point and bridge
and more changes I'm too lazy to try and remember and list right now

The map is a joke, but even then i put some thought into it.

 

[Loose Noose]

Here are some of the changes I have made to the first area.
There is a lot I have done, so I will let the design speak for itself.
(Apologies for some of the darkness, I'm not sure why my screenshots always come out like this)

BLU Spawn:


First Staging Area:



Staging Area Exit:



First Point:



I wanted to keep as many elements from Dustbowl as I could; High walls, rickety buildings, the trench, the mines, etc.

I like some of the ideas you have with the extra doorways and moving the points, and I will be sure to consider some of that when i reach that point!