CP cp_haddou rc2

A Frontline! desert mingle

  1. FatherBrandon

    FatherBrandon L2: Junior Member

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    cp_haddou - A Frontline! desert mingle

    A new Frontline! themed map mostly aimed at 6s.

    Welcome to the deep desert of Morocco my friend. A war has been brewing like an obstinate sand storm on the horizon.

    Blu has traveled many miles across the thirst-inducing desert to contest Red's capture of this unknown desert town.

    Full image album here: http://imgur.com/a/Bf3wL

    Using a town fountain model made by EArkham which can be found here: https://tf2maps.net/downloads/town-fountain-model.1739/

    Also using Market Props by ChemicalAlia which can be found here: https://tf2maps.net/threads/whark-arabian-market-props.27466/

    New claystone wall textures/strawroof textures and window/carving overlays/tile provided by me.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
  2. Necrσ

    aa Necrσ

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    First of all, love the theme.

    Heres some feedback just from walking around the map:
    cp_haddou0000.jpg
    I like what your trying to do with the fog but its a bit overpowering and doesnt transition that well when leaving spawn, also rather than being stuck inside that small room the the entire duration of setup time, let them out into the rest of their spawn.
    cp_haddou0001.jpg
    This is going to be super hard to push through as there is no other route for blu team to take, the area outside blu spawn feels pretty cramped as well. Maybe try to enlarge the area and add more routes for the attacking team

    hope this helped :)
     
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  3. FatherBrandon

    FatherBrandon L2: Junior Member

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    Thanks for the feedback!

    I'll consider opening up the rest of the Blu for the next release. The map size is aimed at 6s, I should have originally stated that (main post now updated!)
     
  4. Hoplitejoe

    aa Hoplitejoe

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    generally the first public release of a map doesn't start at rc1 lol.

    I'll start with the massive problem i see in the design.
    [​IMG]

    You have several spawn exits with some with height , which is good, but is made kinda pointless because they all empty into 1 place. you only need to spam this one small area and you will hit people leaving from ALL the doors.

    [​IMG]

    After that you have this hard choke. If you are blue there is no way at all to flank through this. Generally hard chokes suck in tf2.




    And some other stuff.

    [​IMG]

    Why keep this door locked during setup if there are other locked gates in front of it?

    [​IMG]

    I really hate this low down sticking out clipping, super annoying to play with. Just let me pass through the straw roof.

    [​IMG]

    What is this?

    and finally, how is this map frontline? I don't see any signs of war anywhere on the map.
     
  5. FatherBrandon

    FatherBrandon L2: Junior Member

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    All of my maps were released here as RC first ;-). It's just the way I like releasing maps. I'm not saying it's the best or most efficient way.

    I am having the map tested for 6s as it was designed for it. The choke should be less of a problem as the defending team shouldn't be defending the first point that close to Blu spawn. If it is too much of a problem it will be fixed.

    The issue with the gate I understand and will most likely be changed in the next release. I may change the straw roof ends to a func_brush in future releases to make them non-solid.

    Those are part of the stairs from the room on the other side back when the map was designed differently. I thought they looked kind of neat there so I kept them.

    There are a number of Frontline! models in the map (mostly on the outskirts such as a Jeep, Armored Car, Bike, Fighter plane. North Africa was part of WW 2 so I thought it would fit the theme nicely.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
  6. Hoplitejoe

    aa Hoplitejoe

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    I'll be honest, I think this is one of your biggest issues with mapping. Proper alpha testing is incredibly important as it's when it's easiest to do big structural changes. The fact any major changes to your maps at RC1 require ripping up huge amounts of detailing means you are so much less willing to make major changes after proper testing.

    I really think there is a major issue with the hard choke, but there is 100% an issue to the fact all your blu spawn exits lead to 1 point. This is bad design that would (should) have been pointed out 1st test of the alpha of this map.

    As for "it's fine because it's for 6's", there isn't a single map in 6's which doesn't work in pubs. the design principles tend to be stricter when designing for 6's, not more forgiving. Also on the topic of 6's, this style of A/D has never been played in any modern version of 6's. Gpit style (i.e. an A point and a B point that can be capped in any order then a C last) has, but fell out of favour 2 years ago. You might really struggle getting much attention for this map from the 6's community.
     
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  7. FatherBrandon

    FatherBrandon L2: Junior Member

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    I really don't mind making changes when needed and I will be making changes to the map. I never said "it's fine because it's for 6's, I said it may be less of an issue. I've spoken with a few comp players who want A/D to make a comeback which is part of the reason why I made the map.

    I hope my replies are not coming across as hostile to you. They are not intended to be.
     
  8. Crowbar

    aa Crowbar perfektoberfest

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    I guess RED will defend whatever good place to defend they have once they have the opportunity to, without even thinking if they should.
     
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  9. Yrr

    aa Yrr An Actual Deer

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    if you want proper feedback on your map, especially from comp, you've gotta have it open for testing from early undetailed alphas so that people can suggest much much bigger changes

    starting in rc is just an awful awful idea and a way to ensure your map gets written off as irredeemable if it has flaws
     
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  10. Zed

    aa Zed Certified Most Crunk™

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    Those textures are really visually busy and don't fit the TF2 style well at all.
     
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  11. FatherBrandon

    FatherBrandon L2: Junior Member

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    I will be fiddling around to generate less contrast for the next release. Thanks for pointing that out!

    I am pretty bad about integrating myself into communities as I tend to be a bit of a non-talkative hermit and I definitely feel I missed out on this one by not having you fine folks help out while my maps were in alpha. This is something I will be doing for future maps.

    Edit: I do like discussing map design and theory as well. If anyone feels inclined, feel free to add me on Steam. Perhaps there could be some full-on collabs in the future on map projects.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 11, 2016
  12. FatherBrandon

    FatherBrandon L2: Junior Member

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    More updates!

    Descriptions of changes in the album:

    http://imgur.com/a/5eWbJ

    Going to do a full compile overnight and post the updated version tomorrow.
     
  13. FatherBrandon

    FatherBrandon L2: Junior Member

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    Changes:

    -Added a second exit from the Blu spawn to help prevent choking hazards.

    -Reduced cap time on first point by 10 seconds.

    -Removed fountain model and replaced it with a pedestal model to make it easier to jump on/maneuver around near the final point. (Your fountain model is beautiful, EArkham. I am sad to remove it).

    -Moved palm tree near the back of the curved divider beside the final point. (I found that backing up along the divider you ended up getting caught on the tree).

    -Added a clipping brush to all but one of the market stand models so you don't get stuck rubbing against them.

    -Removed the majority of the hip-high wall near the final point to increase maneuverability.

    -Removed market stand from the Gardens area near the final Point to increase maneuverability.

    -Rotated the palm tree in the middle of the Gardens area to make it easier for a class like Scout to jump onto the smaller hedges before jumping onto the higher hedges.

    -Added a medium healthpack into the tunnel that connects from the broken down tower route to the final point.

    -Moved Palm tree that was above the first point slightly to help prevent getting caught up against it.

    -Removed 'L' shaped hedge from above and behind the first point. Raised the ground to match the slope to effectively create more ground to easily move on.

    -Increased the height of the building above and behind the first point and removed some straw roof ends to increase maneuverability.

    -Moved the indoor market in the lobby near Blu spawn exit into the wall to increase maneuverability.

    -Changed the majority of prop urns from solid to not-solid in major areas to increase maneuverability.

    -Changed/added a new texture for the building behind and above the first point to help refresh the visuals. Also added some wooden supports to the corners of buildings I found were too noisy/hard to see the edges of.

    Album: http://imgur.com/a/WvE7p (basically same screenshot angles)

    Read the rest of this update entry...
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2016
  14. MegapiemanPHD

    aa MegapiemanPHD Doctorate in Deliciousness

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    Those textures remind me of original Counter Strike more than TF2.
     
  15. FatherBrandon

    FatherBrandon L2: Junior Member

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    I may do a major overhaul of the majority textures (I like some of them) for the next release but for now I wanted to address more prominent game-play issues.
     
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  16. MegapiemanPHD

    aa MegapiemanPHD Doctorate in Deliciousness

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    Good. That's the most important part.