B4nny visits Valve, tweets about upcoming update

[CommodoreKong]

To be fair the stun lock mechanic of the airblast was pretty un-fun to fight against and I think they changed it for the better in Tough Break. I do think the Pyro still needs some more work though, though I'm sure we'll see some more balancing for Pyro in this update.

Yes, let's send b4nny for weapon balancing. That seems like the smartest plan in the world.

How about taking weapon balance ideas from like 10 mains for each class instead of one guy who only plays Scout/Soldier/Demo(not knight)?

Well Valve is pretty focused on competitive TF2 right now so it makes sense they would speak to one of the top comp players about weapon balance. I don't think it's a bad idea to get some input from the comp community on weapon rebalances, though I think Valve has to be careful. Comp and pubs is too very different things and balancing too much towards comp could be a very bad thing.

 

[Vel0city]

Well Valve is pretty focused on competitive TF2 right now so it makes sense they would speak to one of the top comp players about weapon balance. I don't think it's a bad idea to get some input from the comp community on weapon rebalances, though I think Valve has to be careful. Comp and pubs is too very different things and balancing too much towards comp could be a very bad thing.

B4nny is a top comp player for Scout, Soldier and Demo in a 6v6 format, maining Scout in Highlander (when he plays it which isn't a lot). That does not mean he instantly knows how to balance the other 6 classes for the format that people mostly play (12v12 pubs). The last thing Valve should do is only listen to him. He's too big of an influence on the whole game.

I mean, if you've watched his video on Pyro you know he has absolutely no idea how to play the class usefully thinking that Pyro only uses airblast and nothing else. Hell, it's his least played class. Yet Tough Break completely destroyed the class turning it into a braindead W+M1 spamfest with the Phlog buff being the absolute highlight of the whole update. B4nny stated he had nothing to do with that, but the way Pyro got nerfed shows that b4nny's rant had a big influence on Pyro's nerfs.

 

[CommodoreKong]

Someone who publishes games on Steam leaked the dates of the Steam Summer Sale a couple of hours ago.
It starts on June 23 and ends July 4th. Every major update for the past few years besides Gun Mettle shipped before the summer sale started, Gun Mettle shipped the week after the summer sale ended last year. We now have a pretty good idea on when this update will ship.

B4nny is a top comp player for Scout, Soldier and Demo in a 6v6 format, maining Scout in Highlander (when he plays it which isn't a lot). That does not mean he instantly knows how to balance the other 6 classes for the format that people mostly play (12v12 pubs). The last thing Valve should do is only listen to him. He's too big of an influence on the whole game.

I mean, if you've watched his video on Pyro you know he has absolutely no idea how to play the class usefully thinking that Pyro only uses airblast and nothing else. Hell, it's his least played class. Yet Tough Break completely destroyed the class turning it into a braindead W+M1 spamfest with the Phlog buff being the absolute highlight of the whole update. B4nny stated he had nothing to do with that, but the way Pyro got nerfed shows that b4nny's rant had a big influence on Pyro's nerfs.

I'm not saying that Valve should do everything B4nny says (and I'm sure they don't) or he would be able to perfect balance the game but I do think it's a good idea for them to be getting feedback on rebalances before an update ships instead of just getting all of their feedback after they ship the update, especially with the focus on competitive they have right now.

Even if Valve wasn't focused on competitive right now I think getting feedback on some of their rebalances before shipping updates is a very good thing and I hope they continue to do it for all future major updates/rebalances. Someone like B4nny (or any third party really) might be able to spot some sort of issue with a rebalance that the TF2 team never considered or help them think about something in a new way that makes a rebalance better.

 

[Lain]

Because Benny doesn't like pyros obliviously

Banny doesn't like Pyro because his kit takes little skill to use, is frustrating to play against and doesn't fit in the format of a competitive video game.

If Pyro's main weapon wasn't so short range and took skill to use (something like an LG from Quake or something, maybe with a bit of volume on the shot), and he had a movement ability that wasn't terrible he could see use; but right now he is just terrible in terms of the game design of a competitive game.

Banny doesn't hate Pyro, as much as Reddit and crying Pyro mains would have you believe. In the video that you're probably referencing, he was talking about why airblast is a dumb mechanic (due to bugs, lack of skill to use) and why the Degreaser (at the time) was completely OP, and didn't allow for diversity in the Pyro's playstyle.

Do you like the fact that Pyro takes 0 skill to play well? (to add to this, I played Pyro in Platinum Highlander for a while, even though i was 'terrible' at the game i was a monster at that class because the skill ceiling is so low, I can't even play Soldier in silver let alone plat) Do you not think it would be better if Pyro took skill, had a higher skill ceiling all while becoming a better class to run?
Imagine using your Flamethrower like an LG, denying Soldiers that are trying to jump at you by destroying them with your skill, before sending their rockets right back at them with a well timed and well aimed airblast. That sounds awesome, but right now the skill and effectiveness isn't there, and that's a damn shame.

 

[D0om]

B4nny is a top comp player for Scout, Soldier and Demo in a 6v6 format, maining Scout in Highlander (when he plays it which isn't a lot). That does not mean he instantly knows how to balance the other 6 classes for the format that people mostly play (12v12 pubs). The last thing Valve should do is only listen to him. He's too big of an influence on the whole game.

I mean, if you've watched his video on Pyro you know he has absolutely no idea how to play the class usefully thinking that Pyro only uses airblast and nothing else. Hell, it's his least played class. Yet Tough Break completely destroyed the class turning it into a braindead W+M1 spamfest with the Phlog buff being the absolute highlight of the whole update. B4nny stated he had nothing to do with that, but the way Pyro got nerfed shows that b4nny's rant had a big influence on Pyro's nerfs.

Pyro is all about airblast though, its his primary ability and that is what makes him good. He was right that pyro has nothing worthy besides airblast. If not airblast whole class might as well be scrapped. What does pyro have that other classes don't that is so valuable if we ignore it? I agree Valve should listen to more viariety of top competitive players though.

Also pyro never required much brain to play. It has really low skill floor and thats why people hate this class. Nerf was overall good chance to pyro, now you at least need more gamesense and you can't just spam m2 at everything you see. I wouldn't say the nerf killed the class, it just made it different.

 

[Davekillerish]

So, what to expect is more pyro nerfs and demo buffs

Changes to Demoman:
- Nerfed Demoknight 2 updates in a row including but not limited too:
- Tide Turner basicly gets no damage ramp up, doesnt refill the full charge anymore, and can easily get stopped by damage while charging
- Charge n' Targe removed damage resistance. (30% is nothing to explosives and afterburn was the whole reason it was ever used)
- Many swords ruined (half zatoichi will never random crit again but I do like the new mechanic) The 1/4th zatoichi, aka claymore (not spelling it right deal with it) Persian persuader cant eat ammo kits anymore, but they are charge now, I consider that a nerf but gripe gripe gripe..
- Changed charge mechanic so that you need to be 50 feet away for the best and only killing damage
- Loch n' Load is useless against players
- Removed caber from the game
- Removed apparently hidden stat on floating base jumpers on fire

Changes to pyro:
- Phlog ubers now (they did EVENTUALLY nerf it)
- Scorch shot deals mini crits on burning targets
- Removed the 5 second aim time for the Reserve Shooter (if its still in the stats then they need to re-add it, it got removed from the weapon desc)
- Pyros like rainbows and get a free mini HP kit from burning friends

 

[LeSwordfish]

Changes to Demoman:
- Nerfed Demoknight 2 updates in a row including but not limited too:
- Tide Turner basicly gets no damage ramp up, doesnt refill the full charge anymore, and can easily get stopped by damage while charging
- Charge n' Targe removed damage resistance. (30% is nothing to explosives and afterburn was the whole reason it was ever used)
- Many swords ruined (half zatoichi will never random crit again but I do like the new mechanic) The 1/4th zatoichi, aka claymore (not spelling it right deal with it) Persian persuader cant eat ammo kits anymore, but they are charge now, I consider that a nerf but gripe gripe gripe..
- Changed charge mechanic so that you need to be 50 feet away for the best and only killing damage
- Loch n' Load is useless against players
- Removed caber from the game
- Removed apparently hidden stat on floating base jumpers on fire

Changes to pyro:
- Phlog ubers now (they did EVENTUALLY nerf it)
- Scorch shot deals mini crits on burning targets
- Removed the 5 second aim time for the Reserve Shooter (if its still in the stats then they need to re-add it, it got removed from the weapon desc)
- Pyros like rainbows and get a free mini HP kit from burning friends

This is a pretty biased list. I've lost track of tf2 changes but off the top of my head i can tell you valve fucked over airblast.

 

[Davekillerish]

This is a pretty biased list. I've lost track of tf2 changes but off the top of my head i can tell you valve fucked over airblast.

Actually the mechanic change allows you to survive 1/1000 airblasts now.
Walls exist, multiple airblasting exists, even if you can strafe, your not going any farther then the pyro can walk and still airblast you while shooting you.
(Demo main btw of course its biased but you cant disagree that demoman has gotten his nerfs and pyro buffs)

 

[Yrr]

the new airblast is much more fun to play against since you cant get stunlocked

stunlocks are bullshit

 

[nickybakes]

stunlocks are bullshit

Fucken Mccree flash bang combo.

 

[Aeix]

They will add more skins.
Clearly that is what's needed to make the game better.

 

[Yrr]

skins = wins

 

[Davekillerish]

Airblast still is a broken mechanic against players..
Maybe if it was only able to reflect projectiles so pyro doesnt have an insta 90 damage combo...

 

[CommodoreKong]

Jill created an account over at Facepunch (confirmed to be a real account by multiple people) and posted in the major update speculation thread:
The next update is gonna be neato.

 

[Pocket]

Wait, Jill uses Linux? I'm guessing they're not one of the programmers, then, otherwise TF2 would actually have a Linux port that's not horribly sluggish and unstable.

 

[Vel0city]

I'll keep my hype down until the thing actually releases and it isn't a horribly unstable crashing mess of a game, which it currently is, and which has been the case for every mayor update to this game.