Major Mapping Contest #4

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Cerious

Cerious

L420: High Member
Aug 10, 2008
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Just do casual pugs with people in the TF2maps.net community. Set up a day where a certain group of people just do pugs on maps continually, with a 5 minute alltalk discussion afterwards. They can easily knock out 5 maps in one session, with 20 minutes per map. Eventually, all the maps will be covered and judged thoroughly.

Shouldn't be too tough to set up for the general community that isn't always lurking in chat - just set up a thread for it and a separate steam group for pugs.
 
Shmitz

Shmitz

Old Hat
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Nov 12, 2007
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I still object to preliminaries being public vote, but if it absolutely positively must happen this way, than I also want to say barring the contest authors from voting is silly. 1) They are more likely to have more experience with most of the maps, and 2) If every map author lists their own map among their top 10, then every single map just got 1 vote, which means there is no overall bias to worry about.
 
sniprpenguin

sniprpenguin

L6: Sharp Member
Mar 14, 2008
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I am also among the objectors of the preliminaries for reasons stated, but one thing that probably hasn't come up yet: Why 10? Why not 11-15? You're eliminating more than half of the entrants, and that doesn't seem too right by me.
 
fubarFX

fubarFX

The "raw" in "nodraw"
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Jun 1, 2009
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sniprpenguin said:
I am also among the objectors of the preliminaries for reasons stated, but one thing that probably hasn't come up yet: Why 10? Why not 11-15? You're eliminating more than half of the entrants, and that doesn't seem too right by me.
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I think the public should be allowed to save only 10 maps, or less. It'd be up to the judges to save 5 other maps they feel should have a 2nd chance.
 
Ezekel

Ezekel

L11: Posh Member
Dec 16, 2008
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i have to comment my dissapproval for allowing people to start voting for their favourite 10 from the outset. as can be seen we've already had several votes already, when there's clearly not been time to PLAY all maps.
that means either people are voting for popular/familiar names, or are votings based on screenshots. - aka people are taking the easy road to get the voting out the way so they don't have to worry about it later.

and people can't really argue that they HAVE played the maps over the ocurse of the contest cos the submitted versions aren't necessarily the same and the playing environment of the tests is different (aka more players, all talk, and a modicum of messing around looking for bugs).

@penguin: just cos ppl vot their top 10 doesn't mean only 10 maps will be remaining. it'll probably be the 15 highest scoring maps or something like that
 
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Rikka

Rikka

L5: Dapper Member
Feb 10, 2009
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Have to disagree with anyone who's going to vote based off in-development playtime of the maps. Regardless of how similar they may be to the final product, its that final product that's supposed to be judged.

Just a personal thing. Not speaking bad of anyone who does so.
 
fubarFX

fubarFX

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Icarus

Icarus

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Sep 10, 2008
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I don't get why we bar mappers from voting. They are mostly the ones who play the maps, and have the most experience.

What was wrong with the old system, that they just can't vote for their own map?
 
Leminnes

Leminnes

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Jan 20, 2010
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Since it was locked:

I believe everyone who has voted thus far has extensively play-tested these maps during development.
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We are not judging the maps on their development cycle. Judging them from that would be disingenuous. Thanks for locking it, though.
 
Ravidge

Ravidge

Grand Vizier
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May 14, 2008
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Icarus said:
I don't get why we bar mappers from voting. They are mostly the ones who play the maps, and have the most experience.

What was wrong with the old system, that they just can't vote for their own map?
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Yeah, what this bloke said = the truth.
We are the mappers that have spent 5 months studying and playing tf2 with a goal to make the best comp ctf map we could. I don't see why our 'expertise'* should be removed from the tally.

*not actually experts, but hopefully all of us mappers have put effort into understanding comp during this period, so I think our experiences could actually help in this kind of voting.
 
Leminnes

Leminnes

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Jan 20, 2010
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Ravidge said:
Yeah, what this bloke said = the truth.
We are the mappers that have spent 5 months studying and playing tf2 with a goal to make the best comp ctf map we could. I don't see why our 'expertise'* should be removed from the tally.

*not actually experts, but hopefully all of us mappers have put effort into understanding comp during this period, so I think our experiences could actually help in this kind of voting.
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I agree with this statement.

I think a good way to remedy this is perhaps having the mappers required to vote, but they can only vote for nine and their vote counts as one point towards their own map.
 
Tinker

Tinker

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Oct 30, 2008
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I assume it's to prevent people from downrating maps that might beat them out?

But you're above that sort of thing, right guys?

Right?
 
grazr

grazr

Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle
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Mar 4, 2008
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Leminnes said:
Since it was locked:

We are not judging the maps on their development cycle. Judging them from that would be disingenuous. Thanks for locking it, though.
Click to expand...

Yea, i like the way the maps getting voted for are the ones that have frequently been in gamedays. Which is A) exactly not what this competition is about and B) Simply premature. A lot of the maps in the contest havn't had proper exposure and people are already voting by reputation. I'm going to go ahead and assume those who have voted have not spent 9 hours straight giving each map thorough PUG's.
 
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Flame

Flame

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Jul 19, 2009
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rofl @ that comment, me icky shmitz and rav were playing on the rotation while i set up the servers last night, and there are some contest entries that id be pissed off to have to be playing during gamedays.

a cut needs to happen like now, even if its just 6-10 so people will even want to stay in the servers

if you have 26 maps itll take over 6 hrs to play all of them... with only 10-12 itll only take 3 =)
 
Fraz

Fraz

Blu Hatte, Greyscale Backdrop.
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Dec 28, 2008
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9 hours pugging, 30 mins per pug, 26 maps. That equates to 468 pugs in total...

So we each have to partake in 468 pugs (234 hours) of gameplay before we are allowed to vote. I'm sorry but I barely have 350 hours of gameplay in the 2 or so years I've played TF2.
 
MangyCarface

MangyCarface

Mapper
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Feb 26, 2008
1,626
1,325
Kinda offtopic but fogbow and cesspool both look really well done and with some great gameplay areas going on... can't believe I never got the chance to try them @_@

Edit: Wait, it is on topic, if the preliminaries eliminate dark horses like this then it's clearly faulty.
 
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