Discord

[worMatty]

Discord pros

• Voice chat
• More channels
• Multi platform, web-based
• No ghosting
• More flexibility for faffing around with settings

Cons

• Separate program/platform could put newbie mappers off joining
• Current pace of text conversations in Steam chat room would be hard to keep up with in Discord
• Easy for spammers and griefers to get back in, and to be anonymous

Steam chat pros

• Integrated with the game service platform that all TF2 users must use to play and map for TF2
• Convenient one-button click from group profile page and user numbers visible to anyone
• You can identify chat participants using their Steam profile
• Steam account registration probably puts some griefers and spammers off
• You can easily join a chat participant's server
• Steam link filters shield users from harmful sites
• Condensed text that lets you see many lines on screen at once

Cons

• No user nickname highlight function
• A pain in the arse to join it each time, unless you have a batch file.
• Small text and fast pace can make it difficult to read and keep up with chat sometimes.
• Ghosting

I like Discord's flexibility and ease of access. No need to register an account. But I don't think its voice chat feature will be used much. Text chat is unobtrusive. You can idle in a chat channel and see all the history. Idling in a voice chat demands your attention all of the time. There is no history, and if you want to concentrate on something, you can 'deafen' yourself but you may as well not be in the channel.

I would prefer Steam chat if it had nickname highlighting, chat logging and auto joining. I wonder if we could press Valve to add these features.

I wonder if Steam chat is actually a barrier to newbie mappers because they don't realise it exists. Discord is getting very popular, so perhaps that would actually attract more new people?

 

[LadyRaee]

OK, I tested Discord a bit and I noticed that it takes so much more space to be functional. I don't know if there is skins or something but this makes Discord big no-no for me

Discord in browser and app same size than Steam Chat window. Clearly unusable

You can hide user and channel list no problem, I don't see problem to just hide/open it when necessary

 

[Yrr]

I wonder if Steam chat is actually a barrier to newbie mappers because they don't realise it exists. Discord is getting very popular, so perhaps that would actually attract more new people?

Switching services wouldn't make more people realise it exists, all it does is require them to download another program, providing something of a barrier to entry that a lot of people won't want to deal with.

e: yo i get it, theres a web version, still an extra thing to sign up to

 

[LadyRaee]

all it does is require them to download another program

Web browser version

 

[Tumby]

Discord pros: Voice chat

Actually, steam also has voicechat but nobody ever uses it because nobody wants to anyways.

Steam chat Cons: A pain in the arse to join it each time, unless you have a batch file.

 

[Psy]

Switching services wouldn't make more people realise it exists, all it does is require them to download another program, providing something of a barrier to entry that a lot of people won't want to deal with.

All you need is a link and you can open up the room in your browser. If anything, it's even easier.

 

[worMatty]

Great GIF proving my point, Tumbolisu.

Also I addressed Discord's voice chat in this paragraph:

I like Discord's flexibility and ease of access. No need to register an account. But I don't think its voice chat feature will be used much. Text chat is unobtrusive. You can idle in a chat channel and see all the history. Idling in a voice chat demands your attention all of the time. There is no history, and if you want to concentrate on something, you can 'deafen' yourself but you may as well not be in the channel.

As Rayere says, yrrzy, it's very easy to join a Discord server. You follow a hyperlink and the interface opens up in your web browser. It saves your nickname, no need to create an account, and if you decide you like it and want to use the client app, you can register using your guest account and your servers will be transferred.

Another pro of Discord: Ability to stay connected to multiple servers at once.

 

[LadyRaee]

too long for me. discord is:
boots on startup, 12 communities are click away

 

[Tumby]

Great GIF proving my point, Tumbolisu.

I neither agree nor disagree with your point honestly. It's an opinion at most because these 6 clicks aren't something I would consider pain. Pain is when I have to think, but this is a daily routine.

boots on startup

As I have mentioned before, that is not an option for me. Possibly that means it's not an option for some other people either.

And about the whole "open it in browser" thing: I don't trust web browser to do everything. I mean, this thing just becomes unresponsive at random times, which would then also include chat.
And I would need to split the chat into it's seperate window anyways, which is gonna be 50% the title bar because browser always gotta have all that shit at the top, because how else am I supposed to write this and look at chat at the same time?

Surely all this wouldn't be a problem if I had enough money and room to get a more stable PC and at least 2 monitors.

 

[YM]

Here's my thoughts on opinions expressed in this thread:

• Harder for new people - Not significantly, plus, we continually have to remind people that the steam chat exists and to use it for imp testing, Discord would be no different
• Anyone not comfortable with using discord wouldn't be comfortable using hammer anyway - This is silly, different programs have different levels of friction in different tasks. I don't feel like discord is hard to use (quite the opposite)
• We should wait until Discord has a larger userbase - why on Earth?? Why does the userbase of Discord matter? What matters is the userbase of this site.
• Discord's chat isn't condensed enough - True, Discord has more blank space, but it also groups user's adjacent messages into one. It's far clearer who is saying what. Discord also has multiple channels, we'll presumably be splitting up the madhouse that is Steam chat into multiple: general, non-tf2, imp planning, etc, Plus we can create event specific channels, so all the 72 hour stuff can go in a separate one from general. Honestly, it's a much better system for reducing the mad pace current Steam chat goes at!
• Steam Overlay integration is really important - Honestly this is pretty useful for a lot of 1-monitor users. For me it makes no difference since I have Steam chat on a different monitor entirely. TF2 can be run in borderless though, so tabbing out isn't really that disruptive, plus we can put Steam-links to the servers into Discord's pinned messages and have a bot that has the same functionality as it does now to help people get on to the server when an imp happens. Not seeing huge walls of "X has started playing Team Fortress 2 Press Here to Join" is a big plus imho
• Length of time to join X is too long - Steam's a faff if you don't do anything about it but it has numerous ways to make it simpler, for example i have a bookmark on chrome that launches the chat. Since Discord can be opened through a link too, it's ultimately no different. Plus you can just pop a shortcut on your taskbar or in the start menu or on your desktop, on Steam, wherever you like. All of these options are available for Discord and for Steam.

I think this should be set up ASAP and a trial period run. Say 1-2 months. Encourage as many people to use it during that time as possible, but keep idling in the steam chat too. At the end of the prescribed trial period, have a big vote on the forum and see if it's going to stay. I don't think discussion will lead anywhere until it's actually done as a trial. People are too afraid of change to decide to move without having tried it


(sidenote: I'd like to see a poll of opinions before and after the trial period because I like seeing data)

 

[Tumby]

TF2 can be run in borderless though

There are quite a few resons to not do such a thing, which all condenses into a single problem: Bad GPU.
If I were to use windowed mode of any kind, I would be looking at a 720 pixel high window floating in the middle of my screen. Not only is it tiny and horrible to look at, It also lowers framerate compared to fullscreen and I can accidentaly unfocus the game if I, for example, rocket jump. Windowed is simply put a big no no.

 

[Crowbar]

sorry for russian but hey you click it and end up in the chat even if you were offline/with steam off

 

[dryerlint]

Or just open tf2maps.net and click the "join chat" button.

Assuming you have a web browser open: Hit Ctrl+T, type "t", wait a millisecond for it to autocomplete, hit Enter, and click the link. That's it.

 

[BenCo]

So when we wouldstart this discord project?

 

[Pocket]

Just so long as the Discord chat doesn't end up getting used like Teamspeak, i.e. I eventually have to be connected to it in order to hear what players are saying. I have some friends who for some reason insist on using third party programs for voice chat even though we only ever play casual in pubs, and... well, let's just say I don't play TF2 with them anymore.

 

[Crowbar]

Just had an insane idea
Have some sort of a Discord transferring bot that writes there anything written in Steam chat, and have a Steam bot that transfers anything said in Discord chat to Steam one, so anyone can sit anywhere they want.
feel free to call me whatever type of madman

 

[BenCo]

Btw if we change to discord, in my opinon, mumble will be useless. It's only active when we have a jam and even if we go to discord, where we can voice chat, it just completely dies.

 

[Hyperion]

Anyone not comfortable with using discord wouldn't be comfortable using hammer anyway - This is silly, different programs have different levels of friction in different tasks. I don't feel like discord is hard to use (quite the opposite)

Indeed, you misunderstood it. The point is that if you can't use Discord, you can't use Hammer

I disagree with some of your conclusions but I'm on mobile at school eating so I can't write long text. More later

 

[UKCS-Alias]

Indeed, you misunderstood it. The point is that if you can't use Discord, you can't use Hammer

What makes you think this community is all about people who can use hammer? Players dont need any knowledge of hammer at all, and they are vital to test your map. For a community you want to have it comfortable for them as those are still the people you want to attract. Imagine if feedback could only be given through discord. I bet we wont even recieve 5% of the feedback we do get through !fb or steamchat.

YM is completely correct that they shouldnt be compared.

 

[Ida]

Discord's chat isn't condensed enough - True, Discord has more blank space, but it also groups user's adjacent messages into one. (...)

I get that you're probably talking about general abundance of blank space, but in case you/someone else were not aware there is a compact setting that makes it much more like a traditional text chat, with the added bonus of still having the grouping that makes it very readable.

VS