CP Zinkenite B3a

[Rexy]

Will you be using the crystals as lights in caves or just to set the scene/detailing? Because as long as the crystal aren't particularly colourful I think that could look pretty great having a low traffic cave route lit up with them.

They will both detail and light the scene in certain places. However, from experience, zig crystal colors have been known to cause team color confusion (just ask any senior tf2m member who remembers pl_zig). For lighting, I'm going with mostly white, with just a tiny bit of saturated color. The crystals themselves can be more or less saturated, as model textures don't actually factor into environment lighting, even with $selfillum on, and their material written correctly into the .rad file--just another limitation. I'll be using regular lights placed around the crystals, and then redirecting the models lighting origin to an info_lighting I've placed inside a small hollow box, covered with tools/black.

And I did post it in the WIP thread, but it appears this is relevant, so I'm reposting it here:

 

[Rexy]

Cave images! Still not quite there, but close--I might need to junk it up a bit. I also need more crystals, little ones, big ones, crazy spikey-shaped ones, and lots of other kinds of cave formations. And I spent a lot of time messing with a new cave texture + ssbump, before I just looked at it plain...and it looked ok. What do you think? Textures need work or not?

 

[DaBeatzProject]

I don't really like the plain look of the walls, sorry.. caves are mostly rock I think? so you might wanna change your wall texture to something more spikey/rocky. If that makes sense. Also those stalagmites/tites look really weird, too square maybe? And indeed, put more rubble and rock props in the cave, because right now it looks a bit like an (empty) box (mostly the 2nd screenshot).

Hope this helps! Really love your crystals though, love the magical feeling they seem to have

 

[DaBeatzProject]

eurgh, doubleposts..

 

[Vincent]

More crystals here and there, maybe with carts that have dirt/crystal chunks, some mining equipment placed around. Few ideas I guess. Your textures look simple yet I don't really know how you'd improve them, some custom rubble to add to the ground may break up the flatness I guess.

 

[Sgt Frag]

Looks good.

I was just jokin around yesterday when I said 'point is undefendable', 'point is un-cappable'.
I thought it was obvious.

Anyway, so as not to be a jerk I'll explain what I tried to before the map change/server crash.

The balconies over the last point are very hard for blue to get to, but easy for red. And it's such a large open area before that point it's hard to get in anywhere close to take out sentries. Namely the one above the point, behind the chainlink.
I almost got it several times but was always exposed to solys and pyros...

Still overall I think it plays pretty good, but think that last point could be a bit easier. Hard to say, I've seen it defended and capped, but haven't really kept track of the number of times. But I feel same as you, better that Blu can cap that most of the time to move on to stage 2. (Nobody wants to play round one over and over and never see 2 and 3)

 

[EArkham]

Agreed with Frag about the balconies on last. Those are very tough, especially when you have a pyro or two airblasting.

Also, I noticed that it's unusually tough to get in a good position as a spy at that last point. There simply isn't anywhere safe to decloak except that shack, and walking out of there exposes you by a long shot to their respawn. Which means you're pretty much "obvious spy is obvious." The other choice is the corner between the two spawn doors, but any spot that close to spawn is risky as hell.

I'm not suggesting a spy room or anything special. A small alcove/nook or even some barrels & crates to get on top of or behind would help a lot. Anything that creates a small blindspot from the red spawn room.

The one way path dropoff to last point could use a little tweaking, too. Two problems: first, it's JUST high enough that a vanilla scout can not make that jump. I suggest nudging it down just slightly. Second, for non-jump classes on red it's essentially a deadend but isn't obvious when you spawn that this isn't a valid sideroute. Maybe this can be addressed by a big fu-off sign pointing in the opposite direction so red knows you can't reach CP1 that way.

I think once you get some ivy and other detailing on this, other issues with getting lost will resolve themselves.

Kep

 

[Rexy]

It is important for me to address these issues, so even the slightest thing mentioned is helpful in a big way. A lot of complaints have been about clipping issues, spammy corridors and the open areas at B. I want to make sure and get these things right, if it ensures that people are still having fun, because that's the most important part to me. The good news is the win ratio per teams seems to be right on the money: http://feedback.tf2maps.net/map/cp_zig_stage_a_13a/

I'll have a test with some potential gameplay fixes out later today.

 

[Sgt Frag]

Maybe it's something as simple as adding one rock, kindof in the mid there before the point that someone can hide behind and try to spam that sentry from a location that 'feels' safe.

The win ratio looks pretty good.

 

[Rexy]

Alright, here's a quick image of some changes:

I've opened the route back up to the cave at A, so that it's no longer a 1 way path anymore, which was a major complaint. The second image is the side route to B--it's now possible for players to climb back up via the rock. And the last is the addition of some obstruction to the point at B, with rocks and that forklift. I'll have this version up in a few minutes. Unfortunately it's not a detailed version, if you all had to sit and download the detailed version you'd hate me--and the clipping is even worse because I deleted all the clipping in the detailed version because I intend to redo it all to get it right.

And, updated to stage_a_14.

 

[Pocket]

Do I spy an updated forklift?

 

[Goombac]

A suggestion for the crystals, which may or may not work (I really have no idea) and you may or may not have thought of. But a 3D crystal texture which could illuminate, or you just add lights close to it. Then just models of clumped zig, like your stalactites on top to make it appear that there's a ton. Like:

or

 

[Rexy]

That's a pretty good estimate of the stuff I was going for, the kind of visual appearance I want to achieve in the end. Even then, clusters of pointy jagged crystals, like the one you have in your reference image could be very achievable at as little as 3 triangles per jagged shape, and a very low texture resolution, the shape repeated over and over again, with varying degrees of size and shape.

Trees! (still a wip)

 

[DaBeatzProject]

Epic, epic trees!! the scene reminds me a bit of hl2:ep2. One thing I'm wondering though, you have grass on top of the cliffs, grass everywhere actually but not on the floor of the playable area? I think putting some grass in the playable area might actually help break up the overal grey/boring (sorry) feeling in the map. Just a thought I had.

 

[Goombac]

Well assuming it's a new mine, grass wouldn't have time to grow, especially when it's on rock.

 

[Rexy]

@beatz, I think that's a good suggestion. There are a few out-of-bounds areas that are at eye level with the playing area that have this grass/dirt combination, but I think you're correct. The map could benefit from having a few places where the grass has a direct influence on the ground color. I'll find spots for it.

More pictures!

 

[tyler]

Thank god SOMEONE made a water tower that doesn't look 100% terrible

 

[Okrag]

Don't you think they would have harvested all the crystals on the outside before mining deep into the mountain?

 

[Rexy]

Don't you think they would have harvested all the crystals on the outside before mining deep into the mountain?

Mebbe. But then that's no fun visually. I'll want to have some spots where the zig has been stockpiled, bundled for harvest.

 

[Okrag]

Maybe if they had cordoned off places yet to be mined instead of leaving one lonely crystal it would make more sense.