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Alright, well, I'll have beta 2 up as soon as I can figure out what is causing this repeated issue, where light seems to pass right through:
Anyone have any insight they can lend? A brush of block light in between the displacement and the nodraw world brush sealing the area(s) in question has no effect. It's baffling!
Other than that, all the changes for beta 2 should be good.
Anyone have any insight they can lend? A brush of block light in between the displacement and the nodraw world brush sealing the area(s) in question has no effect. It's baffling!
Other than that, all the changes for beta 2 should be good.
Sometimes the lightmaps do this when they have a lot of small objects (func_detail) directly obscuring the lightmap and get a whole bunch of shadows or odd lighting effects because RAD doesn't know what to do as the shadows are too complicated. The usual solution is to throw a direct light onto the offending face and maybe turn some of the non-world geometry back to world geometry so the lightmaps align better/cleaner with edges. Like a normal light with a brightness of ~50.
As for models and displacements you know they're vertex lit. Even Valve maps suffer from these strange lighting symptums on their rock models and displacements. But something that might help is making sure the "inner" brightness bulb in light spots doesn't intersect geometry/models as that'll cause small but massively bright blobs of light to be baked onto objects which appears to be happening in the second image.
As for models and displacements you know they're vertex lit. Even Valve maps suffer from these strange lighting symptums on their rock models and displacements. But something that might help is making sure the "inner" brightness bulb in light spots doesn't intersect geometry/models as that'll cause small but massively bright blobs of light to be baked onto objects which appears to be happening in the second image.
I guess it would help to add that in every case where this odd lighting appears, it looks to be environment lighting, as it is the same color, brightness, and behaves like environment lighting by always coming from the same direction as the sun (same pitch yaw roll).
The only difference is there are no skybox brushes in the places where these anomalies occur. It's sealed geometry, and that's why it's such a strange problem to me. The last thing to add is there are no brushes in the 3D skybox apart from the walls that contain it, and no items that intersect the map in these areas where the 3D skybox and level meet.
The only difference is there are no skybox brushes in the places where these anomalies occur. It's sealed geometry, and that's why it's such a strange problem to me. The last thing to add is there are no brushes in the 3D skybox apart from the walls that contain it, and no items that intersect the map in these areas where the 3D skybox and level meet.
What Is Schwa
L6: Sharp Member
- Jan 13, 2008
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Haha there is no solution to this bug. Sean ran into it with Egypt, and I ran into it while detailing Swift.
The best Sean and I could come up with is that the light is coming from the origin xyz axis and coming out at the angle of your env_light. Jiggle you map around so the beams aren't very obnoxious.
I somehow managed to undo the bug in Swift, but I'm not entirely sure how. I deleted my initial skybox, rebuilt a new one, and then it went away.
Good luck dude, sorry that you got hit with this nasty lighting bug.
The best Sean and I could come up with is that the light is coming from the origin xyz axis and coming out at the angle of your env_light. Jiggle you map around so the beams aren't very obnoxious.
I somehow managed to undo the bug in Swift, but I'm not entirely sure how. I deleted my initial skybox, rebuilt a new one, and then it went away.
Good luck dude, sorry that you got hit with this nasty lighting bug.
in screenshot 2 and 3 with the rocks, have you tried info_lighting them to something nearby, but outside the light? Doesn't base lighting on the object come from the origin?
Also, I had this issue w/ cp_frozen in stage 2. I just recently switched from the coldfront skybox to the Viaduct one and it no-longer has that issue. I noticed that there was a micro-seam along where the lighting was, so that might be it.
Also, Also, I think Ezekel had an issue with this during canyon fodder, might want to ask him because I believe he resolved it.
If a solution to remove these don't pop up, you could always "cover them up" with other random light sources, lanterns for example.
Also, I had this issue w/ cp_frozen in stage 2. I just recently switched from the coldfront skybox to the Viaduct one and it no-longer has that issue. I noticed that there was a micro-seam along where the lighting was, so that might be it.
Also, Also, I think Ezekel had an issue with this during canyon fodder, might want to ask him because I believe he resolved it.
If a solution to remove these don't pop up, you could always "cover them up" with other random light sources, lanterns for example.
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I am trying a compile with func_details off to see if it makes a difference. Also doing a fast compile (fast vvis, fast vrad) fixes the problem (but also looks bad). If I turn the 3D skybox completely off, the problem persists. Schwa says to move the map around, or to change the env_light angle. I will try lots of things! Who knows?
What Is Schwa
L6: Sharp Member
- Jan 13, 2008
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To be clear, I'm not saying that those solutions will fix the bug. Rather, you can minimize the bug's effect.
Edit: I am certain you are suffering from the fabled "origin" bug. The error as I can best describe it is that planes of light (resembling the env_light properties) penetrate through sealed geometry at fixed places in hammer. You can test this by selecting everything in your map and moving it 512 units to the left. Compile, and In-game the odd light will now be 512 units to the right. My crap band-aid fix is to move the entire geometry of your map to a place that best reduces the obvious oddities.
Edit: I am certain you are suffering from the fabled "origin" bug. The error as I can best describe it is that planes of light (resembling the env_light properties) penetrate through sealed geometry at fixed places in hammer. You can test this by selecting everything in your map and moving it 512 units to the left. Compile, and In-game the odd light will now be 512 units to the right. My crap band-aid fix is to move the entire geometry of your map to a place that best reduces the obvious oddities.
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Schwa is right, he wins the cookies.
If you move the map to different spot in the grid (in this case 2048 units), the ghost lighting goes away--or at least is moved elsewhere.
I really did try a lot of other things, like doom's suggestion to convert func_details into func_lods, reducing texinfos (even though I wasn't over the limit, it seemed to have a difference when I turned func_detail off and the texinfos dropped significantly), even play with cordons, 3D skybox on/off.
It's the strangest bug though--even if I don't really understand what the cause is, at least there's a painless solution now if you know you're suffering from it.
I'm compiling beta 2 now! We'll play tonight.
If you move the map to different spot in the grid (in this case 2048 units), the ghost lighting goes away--or at least is moved elsewhere.
I really did try a lot of other things, like doom's suggestion to convert func_details into func_lods, reducing texinfos (even though I wasn't over the limit, it seemed to have a difference when I turned func_detail off and the texinfos dropped significantly), even play with cordons, 3D skybox on/off.
It's the strangest bug though--even if I don't really understand what the cause is, at least there's a painless solution now if you know you're suffering from it.
I'm compiling beta 2 now! We'll play tonight.
Hooray! Beta 2!
_________________
Fixes include:
Several prop-fade distances (were too short)
Overlays missing/wrong faces for health packs
Multiple visual issues, poor lighting fixes, bad vertex lighting, lighting origins, etc
Players 'tipping' or getting stuck on the metal grate brush in blu spawn at stage 3
Ghost light fix!
Some clipping added (based on feedback)
_________________
Fixes include:
Several prop-fade distances (were too short)
Overlays missing/wrong faces for health packs
Multiple visual issues, poor lighting fixes, bad vertex lighting, lighting origins, etc
Players 'tipping' or getting stuck on the metal grate brush in blu spawn at stage 3
Ghost light fix!
Some clipping added (based on feedback)
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What Is Schwa
L6: Sharp Member
- Jan 13, 2008
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Cookies? You promised you'd name the Zinkenite Employees Only Bathroom after me.
"Schwa's Memorial Dumping Station"
What Is Schwa
L6: Sharp Member
- Jan 13, 2008
- 375
- 445
What Is Schwa
L6: Sharp Member
- Jan 13, 2008
- 375
- 445
What is what?
What Is Schwa
L6: Sharp Member
- Jan 13, 2008
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I am not a fan of stage 3.
I have a ton of feedback but will start simple.
I notice you did scale down a little bit of the height in A but I still think it is problematic. The actual CP and all the connecting floors need to come down a little bit. I suspect you are at 192 now, and they'd both look and feel better at 160.
B is a freakin' mess. Getting to B is raw. Getting from B to C is a maze.
There are just too many buildings there. The interiors are cramped, confusing, and impossible to do anything inside. Break it down and start over from scratch with the idea of a single building.
I have more but I have a test to study for.
I have a ton of feedback but will start simple.
I notice you did scale down a little bit of the height in A but I still think it is problematic. The actual CP and all the connecting floors need to come down a little bit. I suspect you are at 192 now, and they'd both look and feel better at 160.
B is a freakin' mess. Getting to B is raw. Getting from B to C is a maze.
There are just too many buildings there. The interiors are cramped, confusing, and impossible to do anything inside. Break it down and start over from scratch with the idea of a single building.
I have more but I have a test to study for.
What Is Schwa
L6: Sharp Member
- Jan 13, 2008
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Okay since I wasn't too clear about that building before I'll try to be more constructive with pictures.
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i think i agree with those changes about the house area. lowering A would probably be good too.
just in case you wanted to slow down blu some more in between A and B (tho it might make it too hard on blu in the end), i think it would be useful to make A cap in a good 30+ seconds. not like red can push back/spam while they are capping as there is only that one cave entrance.
just in case you wanted to slow down blu some more in between A and B (tho it might make it too hard on blu in the end), i think it would be useful to make A cap in a good 30+ seconds. not like red can push back/spam while they are capping as there is only that one cave entrance.
definitely had fun on the test today
it'd be nice if the theme was official so no more 180 mb downloads everytime the map is changed
it'd be nice if the theme was official so no more 180 mb downloads everytime the map is changed