Spire prop blockbullets

Discussion in 'Mapping Questions & Discussion' started by Collaide, Jan 16, 2018.

  1. Collaide

    Collaide L1: Registered

    Messages:
    33
    Positive Ratings:
    2
    Hey guys, I'm the guy responsible for the pro version of badlands, and one thing that's been on my to do list is to redo the blockbullets representing the spire.

    The issue is that the current blockbullets are not nearly good enough, as they don't visually represent what's a part of the prop, which means sometimes you can hide stickies in the prop, and other times the blockbullets extend out from the prop, interrupting bullets and rockets who players think should be fine.

    Possible solutions:

    1) Creating more detailed blockbullets for the spire.

    The issue with this is that I don't have the required skill to create such a thing, and I'm even struggling to find out how valves current blockbullets are made.

    2) Recreating the spire with displacements.

    Same issue, I lack the skill required for this, plus it would possible look worse aesthetically.

    3) Recreating the spire with simpler geometry.

    While still tedious, this is something I likely could manage. This however, would likely upset the community, and I'm also not sure how to make it pretty.

    4) Putting regular textures on the blockbullet blocks on spire.

    Now this doesn't cover the entire spire for one, and the textures appear stretched out and I can't find a fix for that.

    5) Making a new prop that's (more) alligned with the hammer grid, in order to allow easy use of blockbullets and creating an accurate surface. I lack the talent required for that too sadly


    What I'm left with is a plea for help in the community. I would really appreciate anyone willing to help me out with this relatively minor issue. Anyone willing to fully commit to doing one of these things or teach me how to do it, will permanently get an honourable mention in the steam workshop page and the Team Fortress TV thread.

    Cheers.

    Collaide
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  2. hutty

    aa hutty

    Messages:
    488
    Positive Ratings:
    391
    A couple things, the spire is a spiral ramp which is the most difficult type of geometry to make in TF2's engine. So there likely isn't a single simple solution.

    Are there any specific problem areas on the spire? do you have some screenshots?

    Also block-bullets will also block players if the issues are related to the little bumps on the parts the player walks it might not be possible to keep movement clean while also keeping stickies visible. Additionally the only solution that blocks stickies and lets players pass through (that I know of) will cause the stickies to bounce off the surface rather than sticking.
     
  3. Collaide

    Collaide L1: Registered

    Messages:
    33
    Positive Ratings:
    2
    [​IMG]

    This is by far the worst contender, and it's similar all around the spire itself.

    I tried to cut it but since it's on the side of the spire and rotations aren't accurate, I can't do it. It's not vertically alligned either, so that makes the lower level of the spide able to hide stickies inside it.
     
  4. henke37

    aa henke37

    Messages:
    1,945
    Positive Ratings:
    461
    I take it that it's not an option to just recompile the prop and use the actual geometry for the collisions?
     
  5. Collaide

    Collaide L1: Registered

    Messages:
    33
    Positive Ratings:
    2
    Got any resource where I can learn how to?

    EDIT: Or know anyone who can do it?
     
  6. VEssex

    VEssex L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    76
    Positive Ratings:
    58
    Following up, I don't know if this is good enough to your wishes but I did shrinkwrap the model to it's physics so it is a bit more accurate to the blockbullets if that's good enough. The rocks that were sticking out should be more shrunken in.
     

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 1
  7. Collaide

    Collaide L1: Registered

    Messages:
    33
    Positive Ratings:
    2
    That greatly fixed one of the problems, but exacerbated the other issue: blockbullets are too large and appear as invisible walls. Thanks for the help either way. ;)
     
  8. Pocket

    aa Pocket func_croc

    Messages:
    4,489
    Positive Ratings:
    2,377
    I'm not clear on why this prop doesn't just have a collision mesh.
     
  9. Collaide

    Collaide L1: Registered

    Messages:
    33
    Positive Ratings:
    2
    It does, but it's inaccurate as well.
     
  10. Empyre

    Empyre L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    298
    Positive Ratings:
    173
    I haven't looked, and you might already have looked, but maybe there is a better blockbullets for the spire in the decompiled badlands.
     
  11. Da Spud Lord

    aa Da Spud Lord L0: Crappy Member

    Messages:
    846
    Positive Ratings:
    574
    I would assume that cp_prolands, the competitive version of badlands, was based on and constructed from the decompiled version of badlands rather than rebuilt by hand.
     
  12. Collaide

    Collaide L1: Registered

    Messages:
    33
    Positive Ratings:
    2
    cp_prolands is based on a decompiled version of badlands.
     
  13. BigfootBeto

    aa BigfootBeto Too obsessed with perfection

    Messages:
    404
    Positive Ratings:
    599
  14. Collaide

    Collaide L1: Registered

    Messages:
    33
    Positive Ratings:
    2
    I checked, the "fixing spire collision mesh" is nothing more than doing a few minor cuts on the blockbullets with the cut tool. In the process of cutting a new, extremely useful spot for completely concealing stickies was created. The new model has the exact same size and collision mesh as the old one.
     
  15. Quantum

    Quantum L2: Junior Member

    Messages:
    80
    Positive Ratings:
    62
    I made this poor attempt at a fix a while back. I just made a new collision out of admittedly messy displacements that'll need to be fixed up. You would either have to use an invisible texture so it acts like blockbullet or texture it so it looks like the original spire. Feel free to modify it to fit your needs, if you want to use it. I have no plans for it.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Collaide

    Collaide L1: Registered

    Messages:
    33
    Positive Ratings:
    2
    Cheers, I'm gonna check if that will do the trick and then come back to this thread.
     
  17. Empyre

    Empyre L6: Sharp Member

    Messages:
    298
    Positive Ratings:
    173
    Is that a good idea? I remember back in the goldsrc days that decompiled maps were a nasty mess. I understand that it is better now, but aren't you still running the risk of problems?
     
  18. Crash

    aa Crash func_nerd

    Messages:
    3,191
    Positive Ratings:
    5,016
    It's pretty accurate these days, but you lose a lot of optimization stuff. Generally you need to fix that to get it up and running fully.
     
  19. Freyja

    aa Freyja ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Messages:
    2,883
    Positive Ratings:
    5,123
    If you need I can probably recompile this prop with a better collision model
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Collaide

    Collaide L1: Registered

    Messages:
    33
    Positive Ratings:
    2
    That would be extremely helpful