KotH Shutdown [Deleted]

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Da Spud Lord

Occasionally I make maps
aa
Mar 23, 2017
1,341
The map is very overscaled. The spawn room is kinda dark, but as long as players can find their way out it's good enough- the spawn can afford to be dark as there won't be much fighting in there. Also the routes leading from spawn to the point are boring. One route is the fastest while the others are clearly longer- try to make all viable paths from spawn to the point about equal length.
 

FishyUberMuffin

War Paints Everywhere
Apr 26, 2015
977
The map is very overscaled. The spawn room is kinda dark, but as long as players can find their way out it's good enough- the spawn can afford to be dark as there won't be much fighting in there. Also the routes leading from spawn to the point are boring. One route is the fastest while the others are clearly longer- try to make all viable paths from spawn to the point about equal length.
I set the lights to 1,200. Why is it always dark? I grouped them all up so it would be easier for me. Also the longer route is for the flankers.

Edit: I made the map small for a reason so it would not be over sized. The only things that are tall is not stop sniper have too long of a sight line.
 

Da Spud Lord

Occasionally I make maps
aa
Mar 23, 2017
1,341

FishyUberMuffin

War Paints Everywhere
Apr 26, 2015
977
- Added new buildings
- Added new health and ammo packs
- Added new pathway
- Added new sniper blocks
- Updated the height of many walls
- Remove a pathway

Read the rest of this update entry...
 

FishyUberMuffin

War Paints Everywhere
Apr 26, 2015
977
- Added new health and ammo
- Added new patch for ammo and health
- Added water to the map
- Added new health and ammo kits
- Updated some textures
- Updated the extra pathway to go underground
- Updated the far spawn room door to not have a wall stick out
- Fixed red door not working
- Fixed players being able to Rocket and Sticky Jump out of the map

Read the rest of this update entry...
 

FishyUberMuffin

War Paints Everywhere
Apr 26, 2015
977
- Added new lights
- Added a roof to the control point
- Added new sniper sight line blockers
- Updated the whole map to counter snipers more
- Updated the water doors to one way
- Updated the spawns to feel smaller
- Updated some health and ammo patches

Read the rest of this update entry...
 

red3pit

High on melancholy
aa
Dec 3, 2016
262
So I took a look at your map. Here's what I've got.
gzqL3j6.jpg

When I walked out of spawn I saw... Maze. That's the only word to describe this area. Maybe try to rebuild it to be less... Mazing.

IPatOks.jpg

I walked into this expecting that it will open. Nothing happend and that's weird because:

gR0bV29.jpg

There's a sightline(?) behind this door!

Pr6OpMM.jpg

At the end of this area you have this bug. May be nodraw or bugged area portal (or idk).

Ll1jk0f.jpg

And I guess this big metal thing is supposed to be a door from that sightline. Does not work neither.

gw06mvJ.jpg

Whole map is overscaled (next time you make map, check these links I and @Da Spud Lord gave you), but this ramp is HUGE.

3Og5d2j.jpg

What's this area? Looks like it was (or wass supposed to be) a sightline. It's not visible from gameplay space, so I don't think this sould exist at all.

mT16phy.jpg

I guess these big black blocks are supposed to be these sniper blockers, but they just are frustrating looking bad. Maybe try to replace them with fence props? Idk.

Also there's a lack of health and ammo packs (3 on each side).

Maybe this will help you in the future (or maybe not).
 

FishyUberMuffin

War Paints Everywhere
Apr 26, 2015
977
So I took a look at your map. Here's what I've got.
gzqL3j6.jpg

When I walked out of spawn I saw... Maze. That's the only word to describe this area. Maybe try to rebuild it to be less... Mazing.

IPatOks.jpg

I walked into this expecting that it will open. Nothing happend and that's weird because:

gR0bV29.jpg

There's a sightline(?) behind this door!

Pr6OpMM.jpg

At the end of this area you have this bug. May be nodraw or bugged area portal (or idk).

Ll1jk0f.jpg

And I guess this big metal thing is supposed to be a door from that sightline. Does not work neither.

gw06mvJ.jpg

Whole map is overscaled (next time you make map, check these links I and @Da Spud Lord gave you), but this ramp is HUGE.

3Og5d2j.jpg

What's this area? Looks like it was (or wass supposed to be) a sightline. It's not visible from gameplay space, so I don't think this sould exist at all.

mT16phy.jpg

I guess these big black blocks are supposed to be these sniper blockers, but they just are frustrating looking bad. Maybe try to replace them with fence props? Idk.

Also there's a lack of health and ammo packs (3 on each side).

Maybe this will help you in the future (or maybe not).
If I don't make it makes it maze like then snipers will be over powered.

The doors that you tried to open only work if the point is capture. If red caps blue open up. If Blu caps red open up. The doors on the floor are one way.
If I don't make the ramp huge then people will complain on it being small. The other part of the map that you can't go into is just a scrapped part of the map due to nobody goes threw there. So I just blocked it off.
The sniper blockers are there to stop snipers. I tried to have fence there on a old map but people complained about the fence being ugly.
 

red3pit

High on melancholy
aa
Dec 3, 2016
262
If I don't make it makes it maze like then snipers will be over powered.

The doors that you tried to open only work if the point is capture. If red caps blue open up. If Blu caps red open up. The doors on the floor are one way.
If I don't make the ramp huge then people will complain on it being small. The other part of the map that you can't go into is just a scrapped part of the map due to nobody goes threw there. So I just blocked it off.
The sniper blockers are there to stop snipers. I tried to have fence there on a old map but people complained about the fence being ugly.
Use my advices and just maybe remake this map, but using the correct scale.
 

Auwi

Certified in best in fun
aa
Dec 12, 2012
188
I don't mean to say this offensively, but it seems you're not improving your mapping skills like most people typically do

It seems you're rushing your map creations, you're focused on just making something and getting it out, not taking time to plan layouts

It'll take more time, but i think you're able to learn best if you can decipher what makes a map good from what makes a map bad

Most new mappers will look at other maps, readjust their scaling, take inspiration, learn from feedback, and strive to improve how they make their maps. At TF2Maps, we want you to improve.

Here are simple and great maps i think you could strive to take inspiration from:

Cannery
Forklift
Sierra
Moosetrain

It WILL take time, and it might be exhausting, but I want you to work on your layouts and scaling. With enough time you'll certainly go from blocky, flat, sightlines to more structured, diverse, and balanced maps. You just need to put effort into it and people will eventually love your maps.
 

Da Spud Lord

Occasionally I make maps
aa
Mar 23, 2017
1,341
I don't mean to say this offensively, but it seems you're not improving your mapping skills like most people typically do
I don't know if I would go that far. Whitejack was definitely an improvement over Uber's previous maps. This map, Shutdown, was a step back.

I agree with everything else you said, though.
 

FishyUberMuffin

War Paints Everywhere
Apr 26, 2015
977
I don't mean to say this offensively, but it seems you're not improving your mapping skills like most people typically do

It seems you're rushing your map creations, you're focused on just making something and getting it out, not taking time to plan layouts

It'll take more time, but i think you're able to learn best if you can decipher what makes a map good from what makes a map bad

Most new mappers will look at other maps, readjust their scaling, take inspiration, learn from feedback, and strive to improve how they make their maps. At TF2Maps, we want you to improve.

Here are simple and great maps i think you could strive to take inspiration from:

Cannery
Forklift
Sierra
Moosetrain

It WILL take time, and it might be exhausting, but I want you to work on your layouts and scaling. With enough time you'll certainly go from blocky, flat, sightlines to more structured, diverse, and balanced maps. You just need to put effort into it and people will eventually love your maps.

Well When i get an ideal to do a map. I quickly make the map to get it out there then i will make improvement as i go.
 

FishyUberMuffin

War Paints Everywhere
Apr 26, 2015
977
I don't know if I would go that far. Whitejack was definitely an improvement over Uber's previous maps. This map, Shutdown, was a step back.

I agree with everything else you said, though.
Because it has 14ish updates to make it better.
 

FishyUberMuffin

War Paints Everywhere
Apr 26, 2015
977
And that's the problem. Try once, on your next map to do what @Auwi said and you'll see that people will probably like it more.
I will improve on the map, i also got inspiration from a jungle map, I had the layout out for mid. I just had to figure out and I did. It was different and i had trouble with scaling and snipers.
 

Da Spud Lord

Occasionally I make maps
aa
Mar 23, 2017
1,341
Well When i get an ideal to do a map. I quickly make the map...
That's your problem. You need to spend more time on the map, especially the layout, and try to come up with something that's interesting or fun. When designing each section of your map- each hallway, balcony, combat area, etc- ask yourself these questions:
  • Why would players go to this area? If there are other routes around this area, why would a player choose this route over another route? Things like height advantage, health/ammo placement, or to flank around/behind the enemy are all reasons why people might choose a certain route. If you can't give a good reason why players would use a certain area, or players aren't using a certain area very much, then you should probably rework or remove it. Don't purposely make one route better than another in almost every circumstance- each route should have benefits and drawbacks to using it.
  • What makes this area special or unique? Not every area has to have some super unique twist to it, but having every part of your map be exactly the same isn't fun. Don't be afraid to experiment with balconies, hills, cliffs, etc to give certain areas of your map more diverse and fun gameplay. I'd rather play on a fun, diverse, yet unbalanced map rather than a bland, boring, flat map.
  • How does this area contribute to gameplay? How does this area connect to and interact with other parts of the map? An area of your map should not be thought of as separate from the others. Each area is a piece in the puzzle that is your map, and as such you should consider the overall effect that an area will have on your map.
 
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