KotH Quarry rc

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a survivor with too much paint
Feb 7, 2008
No, you give Source a break! Cut those angled roof pieces off and func_detail them!

The angled roofs are hardly the issue, its all the random horizontal and vertical cuts. Besides, the interiors of those buildings don't have a flat ceiling - func_detailing the angles would just make things worse, since you could "see" out of the ceiling of the room.

I said it multiple times when we played the other night but here are my thoughts:

Very fun map, I like the oldschool feel of many walkways at different heights, and I especially love how the HUGE MASSIVE deathpit is almost never a cause of death because if you fall off one platform you almost always land on another below you. It's a setback, but you don't die. And that feels great.
Thanks! Glad you like the map.


Mar 1, 2010
The angled roofs are hardly the issue, its all the random horizontal and vertical cuts. Besides, the interiors of those buildings don't have a flat ceiling - func_detailing the angles would just make things worse, since you could "see" out of the ceiling of the room.

Hint brushes or area portals across the top, depending on how much is visible above the building, solves that problem, though.


a survivor with too much paint
Feb 7, 2008


a survivor with too much paint
Feb 7, 2008
Nah, just realized that this goldmine of a map needed proper wrap-up since a lot of people seemed to be digging it. That, and a complete TF2 map would nicely fill the gaping pit that is my portfolio right now. If all goes well, it'll be done before the end of fall.


L4: Comfortable Member
Nov 14, 2009
I just wanted to say this is my favorite koth map of all time and I hope you finish it soon because fall is ending soon!!!


L1: Registered
Feb 16, 2013
This is a very fun map to play! We tested it for UGC on New Year's Eve with two highlander teams and Idolon in mumble with us. This map has a lot of potential. The bottom pit is a great flank for scouts and spies. I love the unique design on this map and the different heights it brings for such a small map. I can't wait to see the updated version!


a survivor with too much paint
Feb 7, 2008
On a related note, here's some changes you can expect in the future based on the UGC test:

-Revised pickup locations: point has less health and ammo from before, more ammo/health on other side of map
-Roofs by point accessible by all classes
-A fence on the middle bridge to make snipers more predictable/less safe
-Bottom flank has solid walls for less spam
-Better optimization
-Improved clipping
-Possibly completely new point/middle area - not sure on this one yet, testing will tell





a survivor with too much paint
Feb 7, 2008
Release Candidate 1 is out! I plan on updating this more, but it's pretty much a full and proper map at this point. Enjoy!


Jun 9, 2009
Moved to Showcase; grats, Idolon!


a survivor with too much paint
Feb 7, 2008
RC3A - the rc that really wasn't

An intermediate testing version for comp reasons. This isn't really an RC, but it is the latest version and I'm too lazy to change the filename. Changes:

-revised pickup positions
-changed point-side building a lot
-made mid bridge extend towards point
-added walls on flank area
-added stairs on flank area
-closed roof spawn exit
-more detailing

Screenshot album (16 images)


a survivor with too much paint
Feb 7, 2008
RC4 - the rc that really was

The official, definitive version of Quarry forever and ever*.

-revised pickup positions
-re-opened roof exit
-made wall in front of building exit bigger

*2 weeks at most

EDIT: oh and check out this totally adorable poster umb made for me!
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L1: Registered
Feb 16, 2013
How it started with Quarry
I was looking at a lot of pl and koth maps in December. Since pl takes the longest and UGC is waiting on a couple people to create or update their maps, I had some time between to focus on koth. Koth is the easiest to fix and get right compared to other gamemodes. UGC’s koth map pool is very weak, koth_pro_viaduct_rc4 and koth_lakeside_final are the 2 highest rated koth maps we play. After that there’s a big drop off with koth_ashville and koth_arctic(which we can’t play due to fps).

We just introduced Scorpio’s koth_coalplant_b7 this season which is a revisited cp_ashville. A lot of people were getting tired of either lakeside or viaduct. I’m not a fan of stagnation and trying to get maps in that people like once fully playtested. So basically we have 3 options for koth if Scorpio’s coalplant works out since it replaces ashville in a way. It seems like people enjoyed it this season, but that will be added in our map vote to determine how much people liked it. We do that every spring where leaders can vote, sent the last one to Valve last year and they loved it.

So many levels which is nice to see

Highest point of the map

Very nice

Do I think there can be better koth maps than lakeside or viaduct? Absolutely! For pubs or comp. After browsing around the TF2Maps.net library, I was going back to the Map Workshop subforum and was looking around for recent updates.

What I thought about Quarry_b6
The map pictures brought this smile to my face just by looking at it. Downloaded the map on December 21st, created a server and just started to walk around on it. I’ve never seen a map like this with so much height! It’s literally pushing the limits and mappers should take a look if you haven’t already. This is a very unique koth map with many heights, point not centered, death pit, and so much going on at once. Usually I can compare maps to others or a mixture of maps, but I can’t on this one!

Quarry was pretty far along and almost completed even for a beta stage map. There were some problems I could see right away with the map. The death pit, which I liked and fits the map perfectly it just needed some areas preventing to drop down. I always try to go back to maps like cp_steel with point E and thinking it’s okay to have that stuff in a map if you limit it enough. It looks like a really small map, when it’s actually not with the lower passage. The height makes up for the length which is nice to see. I already knew what most comp players would say right away, but I believe it can work. Another problem was the point not being centered. I always believe it can work in a map, but getting it right I saw a lot of minor tweaks here and there to get it right. You need a lot of balance and make the non point side useful. That was the biggest challenge I saw coming with the map. Quarry brought a different approach from other maps I’ve looked at.

Getting in touch with Idolon
I pm Idolon on the Tf2maps.net forums on December 21st at 8:49PM est. Sent him an offer asking if he would be interested talking on steam. Idolon last updated Quarry on September 29th, so I felt pretty good about it even for not knowing the guy. I noticed Quarry won the 72 hour contest which didn’t surprise me one bit. A few hours later at 12am he sends me a message to add him on steam and was excited. The same day we talked on steam and I asked him if he was open for changes with constructive feedback. He was on board and loved the idea. We both knew the map was pretty much done, it just needed proper playtesting and the changes would be pretty small ones and there might be a lot of playtests to get it right with the map being so unique.

Christmas was coming up, so we planned a playtest for December 31st at 9:30pm est. New Year’s Eve playtesting a map! Shows how much Idolon and the playtesting initiative wants to try out the map. Whenever we first playtest a map, I get really excited for the map maker. The experience you get from the first one you learn a lot not just from feedback, but hearing call outs, organized pushes, etc. It’s really nice to see and listen. You really understand how Highlander is played and appreciate how much time the players put in on a daily basis. For the most part, the players really know what they want to see and point out problems, especially in the higher divisions.

First Playtest
dec 31st koth_quarry_b6 shm vs pvp 9:30pm est

ShM is mid to low Gold and pvp is mid Silver. They played 2 full rounds(first to 3 per) which is really nice to see. Idolon living in NA worked out perfect. I always get the map maker to pick a day and time before I go asking teams for that slot.

Here’s some of the things I’ll point out that we found before playtesting and during the playtest.

This spot nowhere to get up there at this level

A bit odd; but easy fix

Reminds me of this

This is really open

Need to close it up just a touch

Blue side is taller; You can’t jump on either one just a minor thing

Just need to close it up a bit

Odd placement; easy fix

Small doorways are okay, but when you have another after

Usually a bad thing to have 2 narrow doorways back to back

Too much health in a close area

Especially with a small health in the back


That’s a lot of ammo in a small area

Just around the corner from the previous one

Another example of doorways

Just need to place them better

Small doorway having a bigger exit or vice versa

I like the fence there for some protection of the doorway, but with the map having so much height being bombed on by soldier/demo/scout

Anyone can single jump from roof to roof

Even if you build uber/kritz here still a very open spot with not much cover unless you go inside if it’s not taken

This is a neat spot connecting the two houses. Level 3 sentry from here is OP. It needs to be closer to the point so it’s easier to attack from

Level 3 sentry just shuts down this map. It would be pretty hard to take down from any angle

The point just needs a little more protection


Another example of it being open; This side is fine just need to balance the other side

Here’s an area where you can limit the death pit

Just some railings to prevent most of the falls

This is a nice spot to attack the point from; decent sniper sightline

When on point this is fine if the other side is closed off a bit or else it would be too open on the point area

Interesting spot for a flank class. It doesn’t give them an easy way up, which is really nice to see.

I love the height!

Some players had delay getting back up when a lot of action takes place; easy fix

Shelf on just one side; a spy would take advantage of this hardcore.

The left side of the fench forced engie build and sniper to camp

Just limit this spot a bit

dec 31st koth_quarry_b6 shm vs pvp 9:30pm est

Overall people enjoyed it. Everyone kept an open mind with it being so unique. Usually with a new map some teams might use quickfix til they get comfortable with the map. This map is also great for quickfix with all the height! The medics really hated it. It’s really bomb city for a demo and soldier coming in really fast and even a scout getting on some of these flanks. When you play at the higher levels in UGC, there’s soldiers that will double jump and in a map like this they just come flying in out of nowhere even with a pyro protecting the medic. Just takes a quick second of distraction for an easy bomb. After the first playtest it seemed great for soldier, demo, scout, spy, heavy and pyro was okay. Sniper, engineer, and medic will get better as the map improves over time. People usually get the impression “omg pyro would be OP in this map and why the death pit!” etc. When actually there’s just as many or more death pits in cp_steel. Looks can be deceiving :p

Idolon and I knew it would be a challenge to get things right and jungle things around a bit with it being so unique. I don’t think people realize a map that’s not your basic koth, how perfect it has to be to make up for what other koth maps have. I kept telling Idolon it can work, it just needs time and a lot of playtesting to get it right. Quarry is one of those maps where you can’t do too many changes at once. One small thing can literally change the flow of the map. I’m so confident with the map makers I’m working with and my playtesting team. Things don’t happen overnight and everyone understands that.

Second Playtest on RC1
jan 5th koth_quarry_rc1 shm vs cuties 9:30pm est

Cuties and ShM are mid Gold teams in UGC. This playtest was bad luck with the attack of NFO servers crashing that night. Both teams tried to play through it, but after 30 minutes of random crashes we decided to stop. We still got a lot of info what needs to be fixed. I just wish it was a full playtest, but things can happen. Idolon got enough input for the next version which is great.

Looks better now

Little stub removed

Looks and plays better now

One simple change can make a huge difference

Pretty good

Point has some protection from the other side

The floor spacing needs to close up a bit. I like the look of it having small gaps, just needs closing up a bit so a soldier can’t spam on point without anyone seeing where he’s coming from. When you put a wall there it forces you to focus across the mini bridge or on point and not the open space(non point side)

Same size now; it wasn’t a big deal just looked odd

Too much ammo in this area

Helps the wide open point a bit

For some reason b6 didn’t have this issue; easy fix

Big add on here! We wanted to counter the bombing just to see how it would playtest. That was a big problem on this side of the map.

It looks better than b6

As you get closer
A little protection with the stairs in the way
When you get in the building
There’s not much cover

This stairway made future tweaks possible

Small ammo pack now

Added coming right out of spawn

Looking good; 2 small health are gone on right side

Another angle of it; takes away sniper/engie sightline from this spot

Small ammo near point instead of medium

Small ammo added

There were some crazy fights up here with a heavy and medic being able to get up here. It was a great test to see how it would work out.

Nice pic of the levels

Platform taken out

Roof top exit closed off

Now only 2 exits coming out of spawn

Slidding door added on the left roll out below the roof top exit(closed)

Another pic of it

New change

Hill is lower and large health replaced

Both houses are connected; prevents the easy coming over the top

Map got higher!

Only a couple classes can get up on the top roof now; no build zone

So much height

Overall besides the NFO server problem we got a lot of info for barely getting some playtesting time in. ShM already knew the map, but Cuties were a little hesitant which is very common for any team playing it for the first time. It’s not the usual koth style map, but Cuties suggested some good things as well as ShM. The biggest change that was needed was combining the 2 houses on the point side and open up the inside a bit. The rooftop exit people wanted to see how it would play being closed off. By closing the roof top exit and from earlier pics we needed another way to get up to the non point side. We did some small tweaks, but the house is a big one and doing too many things can be bad.

Third Playtest on RC3
jan 16th koth_quarry_rc3 knd vs syfy 9:30pm est

knd and syfy are high Gold teams. Syfy actually won Silver last season and playing well in Gold this season.

Railings added

Doorway is a bit wider now; what a difference after coming through a small doorway

Small cracks are good; the ones before were too open

Ammo packs are gone now, before it was just too much for a spy to refill

Small doorway

Going into big doorway

Wow nice

Coming along


Access to high ground now!

Awwwww my eyes! Easy fix

Inside panel; easy fix

Enough cover in this room from bombs and snipers

Looks sharp

Now you have some protection instead of it being so open from before

Remember those 2 small ammo and big ammo(here) in this area? This should make it better

jan 16th koth_quarry_rc3 knd vs syfy 9:30pm est

Overall everyone decided the stairway had to go and leaving the rooftop still up. If it wasn’t for adding that stairway, the rooftop wouldn’t be there most likely. Combining the 2 houses together on the point side made a huge difference and opening up the inside. Nice cover from all the height. Some minor tweaking on ammo and health placement, which is pretty common til the map is figured out with balancing.

4th Playtest RC3A
jan 30th koth_quarry_rc3a ShM vs knd 9:30pm est

ShM and knd again both Gold teams already played it earlier versions before.

Nice little add to prevent drop offs

Stairway is gone!

Looks pretty good; Removing the stairway was HUGE it literally offset the map in a good way. One small tweak like that can change a map so much

Prevents falling off a bit
I can’t even walk off unless I duck in the same spot

Yes! Doesn’t hurt my eyes anymore

RC3, but you can see how much better it is with a wider door there

Remember this spot for RC4

jan 30th koth_quarry_rc3a ShM vs knd 9:30pm est

Overall everyone agreed the map is getting better with each playtest. The biggest changes that had to be made were opening the roof exit, because 2 exits out of spawn just isn’t enough. Even with the roof exit being basically on top of the shutter exit, it still makes a bit of a difference. Also everyone wanted the shutter door to be taken down on non point side and make that a open doorway A few other tweaks, nothing major.

5th Playtest RC4
feb 14th koth_quarry_rc4 knd vs bfl 8:30pm est

knd again being a high Gold team and bfl the first Platinum team to playtest this map. bfl is a low Platinum team.

Last pic from RC3A; blocked off that small area

Prevents sentry build hitting the point

A Sniper can hang on the edge; still in a tough spot since he needs to stand still

Shutter is gone

Platform is back!

Roof exit is open! No more fence since it was visible being such a small map and not far from repsawn

Small health was here before

Medium ammo was here before

We wanted to try a small health ammo here; Needs full health at an easier place than below in the cage where it’s a risk to get in and out from.

Decided to combine the two houses so there’s less bombing and coming over the top for the next version

Even with cover it’s still a small room; should help the map a lot

We talked about taking this wall down since there’s cover from the top now

Connecting this side with a platform

feb 14th koth_quarry_rc4 knd vs bfl 8:30pm est

Overall the point side is now pretty balanced after all these playtests. Now the problem is the other side. Removing the shutter doors and making that as a doorway seemed to help a lot. The rooftop exit was great to have back as well. Everyone wanted to see more cover at the middle house by combining the two and a small walkway that goes across the other side. Blunderful, the Platinum team said as a team it’s just a bit off and behind the maps we play in the league atm. That’s a good sign when they don’t just shrug off a map completely and thinking it can’t work. The map isn’t balanced just yet. It will very soon here, it’s only a matter of time.

Final Thoughts
After 5 playtests the map is really coming along. There’s a lot of small tweaks and playtests to see if it works. Balancing this map is a real challenge and it’s been a fun process working with Idolon. I can easily see this as a pub and comp map in Highlander. This map just feels like something Valve would be interested in. I’ve said that when I first saw cp_standin. They love unique maps and ideas, which a lot of mappers should try to do imo. Think outside the box if you can. Don’t always think “this is what Valve should do.” I really like seeing different and creative maps. I give my hat off to Idolon for having the balls to try something like this. It’s a big risk of trying something new that you can’t compare it to.

Thanks Idolon for taking all this time coming to all these playtests and listening to feedback! Hopefully it’s been a great learning experience for yourself. I know it sure has for me! This map has a lot of potential to be really great. Whenever you update it next, just let me know. The playtesting initiative will be ready!


a survivor with too much paint
Feb 7, 2008
*2 weeks at most
And exactly 2 months later (minus an hour), here's rc5.


-oh geez it's been a while
-probably revised pickup positions
-added wall to roof exit, makes point less spammable
-added platform between mid roofs, makes route underneath safer
-added path from the chicken-wire building thing to the "route underneath" i mentioned above
-more frames per second
-moved umb's adorable poster to a less dark location so more people can feast their eyes upon it

Go to OP for new screenshots etc.

EDIT: By the way, I'd just like to point out that RedRum has done all of this on his own - I didn't ask him to do anything. Huge props to him for putting together the playtesting initiative, and taking the time to put together a short history of Quarry's competitive testing.
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