KotH Highville A9

[Berry]

A5 - Feb 22nd 2015

- Slightly extended the building at the top of the hill
- Fencing on middle hill removed, now slopes down to the middleground
- Control point replaced with a cart that moves up and down the hill. Mechanics subject to change.
- Added a grinder to the building at the top of the hill
- Removed log at the cliffside, replaced with a small more usable area of ground
- Spawns are heightened a slight bit, with a slope at the door to slightly reduce spawncamping issues

Thread won't be updated for A5, A6 to come later today.

 

[Berry]

A6 - Feb 24th 2015

- Updated cart to look better
- Cart now has an outline displaying the capture zone
- Top area is covered by brick wall now to reduce sightlines
- Added a building either side in the middle area next to the tracks
- Replaced some rocks beside the cliffside building with walls for more solid cover (and lower sightlines)
- Made the sewer room much bigger to make gameplay inside less awkward

Twotower A6 to come later too.

 

[HQDefault]

Umm, question?
Why do you keep rapidly changing your profile pic?

 

[Muddy]

I too have a question.

How is that relevant?

 

[Another Bad Pun]

You should've called it Danktown

And then: lol

I too have a question.
How is that relevant?

HQ and Mudpie confirmed mapping rivals

As far as actual mapping feedback goes, I haven't played the new gamemode but it looks pretty cool. I like the cart model as well, even if it's temporary. Question about the gamemode though: Is it a Nammicott style koth? Or is the objective to blow up the cart with either the grinder or the pit? (With the winning team owning the cart when it explodes.)

 

[HQDefault]

I too have a question.

How is that relevant?

It's not, really. But I have no where better to post it right now.

I was just curious. :mellow:

 

[Zed]

This map needs Habits by Tove Lo to play whenever the point is captured.

Preferably at excessively high volume.

 

[Berry]

Umm, question?
Why do you keep rapidly changing your profile pic?

Because I want to change it often

 

[Berry]

A7 - Feb 26th 2015

- Fixed CP cart not dispensing properly
- Widened track area by 128HU
- Fixed being able to get stuck on the cart
- Added fencing on the platform over the cliff
- Added grate to the cliffside building to allow seeing into the sewer

 

[Muddy]

It's not, really. But I have no where better to post it right now.

I was just curious. :mellow:

Send a private message?

 

[Pocket]

Here's my general take on things: KOTH with a laterally-moving cart was confusing and gimmicky in Namicott, and this map doesn't improve on the concept. When TF2 players see a cart moving on a mine track, they've been conditioned to assume there's some gameplay significance to its movement and that at least one team can have some effect on it. Just like when they see a metal pad they assume they're meant to stand on it, and when they see a briefcase they assume they're meant to pick it up. Every time Valve has introduced a new gamemode, they haven't messed with these fundamentals. And they especially haven't done so as a "fix" for a standard map whose layout wasn't working out.

 

[ExtraCheesyPie]

Here's my general take on things: KOTH with a laterally-moving cart was confusing and gimmicky in Namicott, and this map doesn't improve on the concept. When TF2 players see a cart moving on a mine track, they've been conditioned to assume there's some gameplay significance to its movement and that at least one team can have some effect on it. Just like when they see a metal pad they assume they're meant to stand on it, and when they see a briefcase they assume they're meant to pick it up. Every time Valve has introduced a new gamemode, they haven't messed with these fundamentals. And they especially haven't done so as a "fix" for a standard map whose layout wasn't working out.

If it was just a cp point attached to a train or clearly marked platform, it would be not that confusing.

 

[HQDefault]

Send a private message?

Yeah, but that would just be creepy. Especially here, where 98% of the time private massages are something rather important.

 

[Berry]

Here's my general take on things: KOTH with a laterally-moving cart was confusing and gimmicky in Namicott, and this map doesn't improve on the concept. When TF2 players see a cart moving on a mine track, they've been conditioned to assume there's some gameplay significance to its movement and that at least one team can have some effect on it. Just like when they see a metal pad they assume they're meant to stand on it, and when they see a briefcase they assume they're meant to pick it up. Every time Valve has introduced a new gamemode, they haven't messed with these fundamentals. And they especially haven't done so as a "fix" for a standard map whose layout wasn't working out.

You bring up some great points. There's several things I want to assess (including ones you mentioned) to do with the mode, but I'm willing to play around a lot. One of the big issues as you say is that the way people move around the map changes completely, and I've definitely noticed that since I made the CP move, people do stick to the 'cart'. There are advantages to standing by the cart, being dispenser healing from the cart and blocking it from attackers.

I'm having fun playing about with this mode, and I'm certainly going to try a few more ideas before just settling, for instance:

• Having the cart tick down clocks only when people are within the cart range
• Having the cart tick down clocks at double speed when the owners are within the cart range
• Going far out and making it sort of tug-of-war (but that would be an idea for a PL map with KotH elements rather than a KotH map with PL elements)
• Playing about with the aesthetics of the cart so it's appeared as more of a landmark and less of a payload cart
• As some suggested, try having either side of the map as a 'finish' point
• Having another go with single-timer KotH and having the payload go down the hill to the end, where at the end of the time it falls off the cliff

I'm also spitballing a concept based on the last idea:
The cart moves at an incredibly slow pace from the top. When it reaches the bottom, whichever team owns it wins. Re-capping pushes the cart back up quite a bit to solve the issue of letting the enemy hold the point then rushing out. Both timers still work normally, victory is achieved by either: Reaching the bottom of the hill, or having your timer run out.

 

[BanjoGin]

I kinda feel like the 'cart' should stop in the three locations, instead of continuously moving.

If it was just a cp point attached to a train, it would be not that confusing.

I like this idea of making it into a point rather than dispensers. doesn't have to be a whole train, just a carriage

 

[Berry]

I kinda feel like the 'cart' should stop in the three locations, instead of continuously moving.

I'm not sure about the stops, it does currently stop at the top and bottom so I could've extended that.

I like this idea of making it into a point rather than dispensers. doesn't have to be a whole train, just a carriage

I would've liked to have done something like that, but I don't really think I want to make the massive changes like that (and I might feel like I'm copying namicott a bit too much).

But I think I'd feel bad not playing about with some other concepts, so for A8 I'm going to try out this one:

I'm also spitballing a concept based on the last idea:
The cart moves at an incredibly slow pace from the top. When it reaches the bottom, whichever team owns it wins. Re-capping pushes the cart back up quite a bit to solve the issue of letting the enemy hold the point then rushing out. Both timers still work normally, victory is achieved by either: Reaching the bottom of the hill, or having your timer run out.

 

[Berry]

A8 - Feb 27th 2015

- Reworked the gamemode: The cart rolls down the hill and does not roll back up. The team with the point captured can win by having the time run out or the cart fly off the cliff.
- Fixed the 'annoying grinding sound'
- Updated the cart model

 

[Berry]

A9 - Feb 28th 2015

- Cart speed changed to 22.5HU/s (from 15HU/s)
- Cart now breaks for 10 seconds on re-capture (from 4 seconds)
- Fixed the train bumper at the grinder being obtrusive towards the small healthpack
- Changed small healthpacks in the sheds in the centre to medium healthpacks
- Displaced the centre of the map fully

 

[ExtraCheesyPie]

I'm also spitballing a concept based on the last idea:
The cart moves at an incredibly slow pace from the top. When it reaches the bottom, whichever team owns it wins. Re-capping pushes the cart back up quite a bit to solve the issue of letting the enemy hold the point then rushing out. Both timers still work normally, victory is achieved by either: Reaching the bottom of the hill, or having your timer run out.

wait a sec, doesn't this just make it polarbeam with a cart? Didn't you say that people stayed in spawn for most of polarbeam until the last few seconds?

 

[Zed]

wait a sec, doesn't this just make it polarbeam with a cart? Didn't you say that people stayed in spawn for most of polarbeam until the last few seconds?

*ahem*

Re-capping pushes the cart back up quite a bit to solve the issue of letting the enemy hold the point then rushing out.