CP croissant final

Made by Arnold

  1. Fr0Z3nR

    aa Fr0Z3nR Creator of blackholes & memes. Destroyer of forums

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    Doesn't look too bad, but the wood walls in the very spytechish and clean final cap look very out of place.
     
  2. Arnold

    Arnold L6: Sharp Member

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    Download b7
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    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2824637/cp_croissant_b7.bsp.bz2

    Changelog b7
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    *better optimisation
    *reverted cp2 back to the way it was in b5
    *added small balcony on last upper route
    *stretched the curved bit with the ammo pack further towards upper route to last
    *made it possible to watch the other side on mid trough a small opening
    *added crates on both sides of mid so scouts can use them to jump up
    *made it possible for scouts to jump up onto mid cp using the wooden planks
    *added ladder to small rock platform on the way to mid
    *added a small surprise
    *several bug and clipping fixes
     
  3. waxpax

    waxpax L5: Dapper Member

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  4. Arnold

    Arnold L6: Sharp Member

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    Didn't look too bad tbh, for mixteams that play the map for the first time. But then again the snide remarks about euro's vs americans, having "second sucks" as a nickname before the game started and saying last is impossible to push if the attacking team has uber and the defenders don't right after you won a round where both sides had uber didn't really help in the appeal of the map i'd say. I can only imagine what was going on in mumble.

    Nevertheless thank you for playing it i enjoyed watching the stv in spite of all that, I'd love to hear why you didn't like it though now that you've played it.
     
  5. waxpax

    waxpax L5: Dapper Member

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    Um, "second sucks" was the nick of a new player trying to break in the comp scene, he had that nick the whole night, before we even got to your map. I don't think it was a remark about any map, I think it's a meme from /v/ since that's where he's from but I honestly didn't ask him because it's his nick, his business. I'm honestly not sure what the dude's "real" alias is, but he goes by Bentry in mumble, so I call him that. I don't think Bentry even said anything about your map, btw.

    The major reason I think people didn't like your map is that the rounds were so long, first round was like 15 minutes or something with 2 constantly changing hands but mid being extremely difficult to take. That type of gameplay can be trying when you first play a map because most people don't like to fail pushes over and over. It's also just a symptom of a new map since no one understands how to play it well so it takes some experimentation to figure it out usually. And this map has such drastic geometry, that it's probably worse than most new maps. People probably need to play it more to figure it out, but idk how many of them are willing to give it another shot since it sounded like most people just wanted to move to the next map after the pug.

    I don't remember any one saying that last was impossible to push with uber advantage, though, mostly because that sounds really stupid and I can barely even imagine a last where that statement would apply with current rules. Again, it was probably just that the map was new and no one could figure out how to push last the first couple times they played it. And I can imagine that the other team was sort of mad that they pushed into my team's last like 5 times before we pushed out and won the first round. I honestly don't pay that much attention to the in game chat, though, so I might have missed it.

    My personal opinion was that second felt awkward in that I felt like I didn't know where to defend it very well other than being behind it. And being behind the point felt awkward because there were so many flanks that I was basically standing in the middle of. That was honestly the biggest problem I had with the map, which is honestly more the fact that I've only played it twice than anything wrong with the map. Oh, I didn't really like the U shape because the transition around mid when pushing out of 2 and the mid fights felt odd, but, again, that's mainly because the map is so drastically different from anything I'd really played before so I could see getting used to it eventually.
     
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  6. Philliz waks

    Philliz waks L1: Registered

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    STAR uses it i like it a lot too. Feels differencent then other maps
     
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  7. lwf

    lwf L1: Registered

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    b7:

    Issue only on the red side.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    This fence won't save you, it's not fully solid. Issue only on the red side.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The blue side got aesthetic some problems with contrast that the red does not.
    The garage door to the right.
    [​IMG]
    Some planks.
    [​IMG]
    This smaller rock being eating by a mountain.
    [​IMG]

    Shy paint, disappears as you get close to it.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Same goes for this dirt.
    [​IMG]

    Thanks for reading!
     
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  8. Arnold

    Arnold L6: Sharp Member

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    Thanks for playing it waxpax but when you are testing new maps you clearly know what kind of variables can cloud a players judgement certainly when it's the first time they play it. But i'm surprised when people test a map for the first time they are so quick to judge.

    Anyway thanks again, hopefully you'll give the following itteration another shot if you are able to convince enough players.

    @lwf: thanks for the bugchecking, the overlays actually are buggy in the source engine so i won't be able to fix most of those.
     
  9. Arnold

    Arnold L6: Sharp Member

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    Changelog b8
    ---------------
    *removed small sloped roofs on the side entrances to mid
    *removed the ladder leading you up the elevated rock area on the way to mid (made it easier for scouts to jump up though)
    *removed railings on the sides of the last cp platform
    *reworked the tunnel (might rework again later but need more playtesting)
    *reduced the cp2 capzone back to how it was the first time around
    *fixed the red cp2 not adding time
    *the surprise is now visible for everyone
    *fixed other small bugs

    Download b8
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    http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=4645
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011
  10. Velsk

    Velsk L1: Registered

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    Getting an Invalid File ID error when I try to download b8.
     
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  11. Arnold

    Arnold L6: Sharp Member

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    Sorry bout that should be fixed now.
     
  12. waxpax

    waxpax L5: Dapper Member

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    http://www.mediafire.com/?wm9ocdur7xyo5cq

    Pugged your map earlier tonight. All I can remember is people saying how one team would have an easier time bombing at mid because of the shape of the map, but the only way you'd really be able to fix that is change the symmetry of the map.
     
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  13. grazr

    aa grazr Old Man Mutant Ninja Turtle

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    I kinda wanna defend the maps symmetry, it fills a perfectly valid niche that i wish more maps did. Though i would say the simple U lends itself to over emphasising any imbalance as a result of player weapon orientation. Other maps like the old version of cp_crossroads had enough corners, twists and turns that any "bombing" advantage was diluted by opportunities at multiple points for each team throughout the maps length.

    I checked TF2maps feedback system, though it's a little out of date, hoping the map would show a relatively balanced win ratio, but did find that out of 18 recorded rounds, RED won 75% of the time.

    From personal experience in public play i know SG's survive easier/longer for RED at the corner just behind the mid CP, when setup flush against that fence. Making it harder to push to RED's CP2 after a successful counter attack at mid. I'd recommend doing a little observation about that aspect of croissant if you want to figure out appropriate balance solutions. But i'd really prefer the maps symmetry to stay as it is as it essentially makes croissant what it is, though i suppose there's nothing stopping Arnold releasing a second version. The only thing i'd suggest is more medium sized cover that allows players to flank players a prefered direction on a smaller scale, such as during 1vs1 combat; the map is very barren in terms of obstructive detail within the play space, like the concrete blocks seen in granary.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 17, 2011
  14. honeymustard

    honeymustard L9: Fashionable Member

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    The whole bombing thing is dumb, good players should be able to rocket jump from either side.
     
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  15. waxpax

    waxpax L5: Dapper Member

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    I'm not saying the symmetry is bad and I'm not saying soldiers shouldn't be good enough to jump off a left wall, I'm merely giving the feedback I remember someone giving. Feedback isn't always going to be the way you want it; you don't have to insult the feedback though, or be so defensive about it.
     
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  16. Arnold

    Arnold L6: Sharp Member

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    Thanks for playing the map will take your comments into account, although i would prefer some more in depth analysis of the gameplay and the flow of the map in it's entirity, but anything helps.
     
  17. Arnold

    Arnold L6: Sharp Member

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    Changelog b10
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    *opened up the half circle behind last point moving the cp forward
    *added small hallway to lower half of mid from lumbershack
    *added fences to cliffside lower mid
    *added small roofs for scouts to jump on on mid
    *that's basically it have some screenshots below

    Screens b10
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    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Download b10
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    http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=4645
     
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    Last edited: Jan 7, 2012
  18. Ptimz

    Ptimz L2: Junior Member

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    I think the cutout behind last is smart, and it looks like fun.
     
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  19. waxpax

    waxpax L5: Dapper Member

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  20. Arnold

    Arnold L6: Sharp Member

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