PL Ascendant A4

[DrLambda]

While the idea would be funny, i don't think i could make a believable golf course with buildings or other kinds of borders on the sides. I probably will have an easter egg involving golfing, but right now i'm planning to go for for a mayann artpass, although with elements from the other packs. I already tried a few things but wasn't happy with them, and there are not many places on the map that i would consider "safe to artpass" right now.

I actually have quite a few visuals in my mind for areas of the map, i just have to find out how to do them.

 

[Startacker!]

I'm actually quite surprised with a Mayann artpass, but looking at it, it seems like it would work! (Basing on the two control points I've seen)

 

[DrLambda]

When i made the map, i actually had no artpass in mind, thinking that it would come to me while testing. I don't know exactly what caused me to think that mayann was a good idea, but i have so many ideas for it right now that i'm not considering anything else.

 

[Moonrat]

When i made the map, i actually had no artpass in mind, thinking that it would come to me while testing. I don't know exactly what caused me to think that mayann was a good idea, but i have so many ideas for it right now that i'm not considering anything else.

I wouldn't recommend a Mayann map. The theme is very samey, and really just not very good looking. The pack itself also seems to be poorly supported, as there have been no updates here on it.

 

[The Letter Before A]

how about a harvest style
you could call it "pl_autumn"

 

[radarhead]

I probably will have an easter egg involving golfing

Hide a physics golfball in blu spawn that instantly wins the game if it somehow gets to the last point

 

[Pocket]

I'd say a Rats map set in a mini-golf course would be brilliant, but really, mini-golf courses don't have that much detail either, and holes are too far apart to work at that scale.

 

[DrLambda]

I wouldn't recommend a Mayann map. The theme is very samey, and really just not very good looking. The pack itself also seems to be poorly supported, as there have been no updates here on it.

I partially disagree. While the pack is quite small, it has a very cohesive look to it, so i'm pretty sure you can make it work if you don't try to limit yourself to just those textures. The mayann page on TF2M actually has a very good screenshot to describe what i want to say at the bottom.

There are quite a few non-mayann textures on the screenshot, and i think noone would say that this place doesn't look like a beautiful place to shoot your friends in. Looking at Ascendant, there are quite a few buildings that wouldn't make sense as mayann buildings, so there probably will be quite a few shacks and whatnot inside the mayann temple area.

I might actually try to create some reference paintings, but i'm kinda bad with Photoshop (or drawing in general) so that might not happen.

I obviously would love a few custom models for stuff that i'm thinking about, but i can't make a model worth anything and don't think i'm in the position to request models.

how about a harvest style
you could call it "pl_autumn"

I always wanted to create a harvest-style map, it was actually the first decompiled map i downloaded for TF2 ever. I'll take it into consideration if i can't make mayann work, but i wouldn't place bets on that.

Hide a physics golfball in blu spawn that instantly wins the game if it somehow gets to the last point

This is eerily close to what i actually want to do, although i'd make the easter egg less disruptive to actual gameplay so that griefing doesn't make too much sense.

I'd say a Rats map set in a mini-golf course would be brilliant, but really, mini-golf courses don't have that much detail either, and holes are too far apart to work at that scale.

I mean, i don't think i'll be able to achieve it, but my ultimate goal is to get a map into the game. Right now, i think it's possible for Ascendant to become a really fun map and quite possibly already is the best layout i ever made. I agree that Rats Minigolf sounds like fun, but it won't be happening on this map.

 

[Moonrat]

I partially disagree. While the pack is quite small, it has a very cohesive look to it, so i'm pretty sure you can make it work if you don't try to limit yourself to just those textures. The mayann page on TF2M actually has a very good screenshot to describe what i want to say at the bottom.

There are quite a few non-mayann textures on the screenshot, and i think noone would say that this place doesn't look like a beautiful place to shoot your friends in. Looking at Ascendant, there are quite a few buildings that wouldn't make sense as mayann buildings, so there probably will be quite a few shacks and whatnot inside the mayann temple area.

I might actually try to create some reference paintings, but i'm kinda bad with Photoshop (or drawing in general) so that might not happen.

I obviously would love a few custom models for stuff that i'm thinking about, but i can't make a model worth anything and don't think i'm in the position to request models.



I always wanted to create a harvest-style map, it was actually the first decompiled map i downloaded for TF2 ever. I'll take it into consideration if i can't make mayann work, but i wouldn't place bets on that.



This is eerily close to what i actually want to do, although i'd make the easter egg less disruptive to actual gameplay so that griefing doesn't make too much sense.



I mean, i don't think i'll be able to achieve it, but my ultimate goal is to get a map into the game. Right now, i think it's possible for Ascendant to become a really fun map and quite possibly already is the best layout i ever made. I agree that Rats Minigolf sounds like fun, but it won't be happening on this map.

I know you don't have to use only Mayann assets in the theme, but I find my problems is from the assets themselves. I don't think the good chunk of them look too great. And some just don't really fit TF2, like those beautiful trims I like to complain about so much. I just don't find the temple half of the Mayan theme to be particularly great, and for the jungle half, I'd use Heyo's pack over Mayann anyways.

And even if you supplement the theme with non-mayann things, I still find the theme to look very samey.

 

[DrLambda]

Oh boy, there was a lot of quality feedback in the second imp, that really made it worth the wait after the first imp basically died before my map. Let's do another Lambda's Imp Feedback Feedback before i get back to make the changes!

This time, i'm combining voice feedback in the demos with !fb posts.

@fubarFX @SparkyShock @Scrawnoisis Viollet Fox
"I don't know if i made a mistake choosing this map (Trollface in spectator cam)"
The point with the trollface was basically that the structure it is on doesn't make particular sense, but only exists to block sightlines and sticky jump rollouts. But yeah, that joke isn't that good.

@The Spycrab that dies (What's your username?)
"you can get stuck on theese which is pretty anyoing if you want to get ammo in a fight"
Yup, missed that while clipping. Sorry!

@EwanLan
"death pit right outside the spawn would get abused heavily"
Uhm... how so? And what makes it different to Upward?

@EwanLan
"this brush bounces stickys"
And there i go, thinking there was a easy way to do what i want to do with the opening flank. I'll have to find a different way of doing it.

@fubarFX @MaccyF @Psy
"are we meant to spawn here? red still have a defense opposite our spawn o0" / BLU forward spawn position
I agree that this didn't work out the way i thought it would. I'll probably flip the spawn over to the other side of the wall. I'm also considering doing a delayed spawn room change like on Frontier. I think i'll have to do a few experiments here, i really want RED to hold on top of the serpentines, but right now they're holding at the bottom, which turns the whole serpentine area into downtime.

@Psy @MaccyF @fubarFX @Oatmeal and a lot of others
"there's no good flank to attack red at last"
"it feels like red can get behind us really easily when we're pushing last"
"this sightline over here is killing all progress for blue to last"
I mean, i've seen the demos, and i kinda have to agree. The problem i have is that right now is that BLU is winning about 80% of the rounds. I don't really want to make it even harder for RED. This dynamic might obviously change when changing areas before last. The main problems seem to be:
The area in front of the main entrance is easily the chokiest/spammiest area in the map. Also, the length of the downtime area is a bit short.
Last (heh.) but not least, it seems that sniper is already plenty powerful on last without the open window on the top flank, so i'll probably change that as well.
What i really didn't understand is that even though i consider the left flank to be a really powerful hold for BLU, noone ever tried to get through there or even contest the area, so RED was able to push out of there pretty freely.

I kinda blame myself for attackers not using the flanks a lot, i probably should make them more obvious, although i'm still wondering how i could accomplish this. The same is pretty much true for the lower flank on first (As reported by @MaccyF)

So, my next steps:
1. Rethink "connector/flank" concept for last and change accordingly.
2. Fix BLU forward spawn being too far forward. Multiple ways to accomplish this.
3. Make flanks on first and last more obvious. I really have no idea how to do this right now, but i'll try to figure something out.
4. Fix smaller bugs and clipping errors.

 

[fubarFX]

"I don't know if i made a mistake choosing this map (Trollface in spectator cam)"

oh yeah that made me scared for a split second. considering it was in my welcome camera.

but yeah, last is going to be tricky. Even with a 80% win rate for blu, the point felt like it had to be a roll or a bust. it's not always about skewing the difficulty to red or blu, sometimes it's just finding out what works best for the objective. what I was observing is that people didn't really want to touch the cart when it was in the final choke.

 

[DrLambda]

Yeah, i saw that too in the replays during the round that RED won. I'm currently considering to redo the whole flank/connector area, but leave the inside area mostly untouched.

 

[DrLambda]

Changelog

• Switched the position of BLU forward spawn to other side of the wall
• Moved a few elements around for that spawn to work
• Redesigned last again
• Redesigned connectors to last
• Added a few missing clips
• Experimentation with mayann detailing at RED last, can be safely ignored right now because it'll be changed
• No more sticky-proof brushes
• Noone is reading these
• Reintroducted quantum jump, broke all tooltextures

Known issues

• There still is a way to get stuck on the left flank to last, forgot to fix that.
• It's completely possible that another BLU forward spawn is necessary, i just wanted to test it like this

Screenshots


Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[DrLambda]

So, luckily i was ableIt to be around when Ascendant went up for some sweet impin', as the demos don't work at the moment. Considering my ping was so high that i probably wasn't really helping my team, i think i should've spectated, but this was my first possibility to play Ascendant with real players, so i had to take it.

@Smiley (How the hell am i supposed to link you with a name like that, man)
BLU barrels on RED last is just weird and slightly confusing. Make them the RED barrels!
I honestly have to say that i accidentally selected the model that doesn't have skins, and just didn't care enough to swap them, especially considering these probably won't even be barrels when i'm done with them.

@MegapiemanPHD
this flank is not that awesome
It's alright in taking out everything that's not to the right of it, and that's okay because that is what the balcony flank is for.

Generally, there has been some discussion about last again. The first round, we weren't able to push last, but i kinda blame our bad team effort for it rather than the fact that it is too hard to push. The sentries on the red balcony are not THAT hard to take out, it's just that we never had the entrance area under control, which is giving BLU some decisive height advantage. I was able to spam down some of the sentries even while operating alone from the balcony room, but usually was taken out because someone was able to flank around.
I also partially think the problem is the new left flank, which still enables the defenders to establish a powerful forward hold. I think i could weaken it a bit by reestablishing a slightly raised path over the left flank, although i'd really like to see some more rounds before i decide about that.

 

[DrLambda]

On a completely unrelated note, my TF2 decided to glitch out during the game. Look at this.

 

[MegapiemanPHD]

@MegapiemanPHD
this flank is not that awesome
It's alright in taking out everything that's not to the right of it, and that's okay because that is what the balcony flank is for.

The problem I had with it is that it lead directly into the best area for Red to hold. It was much more useful to use any of the other entrances, including the one near red's spawn exits, then it was to use that particular route. You are at a complete disadvantage from every direction and mostly just turn into fodder. It's not even all that good for escaping.

Maybe if the route was a bit higher off the ground, higher than the basic room but lower than the sentry balcony, and had some good cover on it leaving it more open to where blu is pushing in than where red is pushing out it would be a bit more useful.

 

[DrLambda]

Aye, another game day feedback feedback post, yo!

@Umaroth-24
i keep walking this direction because the spawn is facing that way
I figured that that could be a problem. I'll prolly have another sign show up in the middle of the track so you know that's not where you are supposed to go, a la badwater.

@Piezo
weird visual artifacts (seeing through map) when rocket/sticky jumping (maybe just hdr? Areaportal, idk)
You're probably talking about seeing parts of the map that you're not supposed to see when you jump up high enough. The map is not fully optimized for that right now, there are currently skybox brushes at some places to block vis, which you could call the lazy, but efficient approach. It won't stay that way once i do an artpass etc obviously.

@Muddy
the HDR is a little overpowering
Yeah, i see how a carbon copy of the upward hdr lighting plus reflective dev textures could do that. Sorry, i'll tone it down for the next version, at least until i artpassed it.

@MegapiemanPHD
getting stuck on something here
Mh, there should be nothing there to cause this. I'll try to replicate it.

@SBMous
a lot of flanks does not fix an imbalanced main route, expand around the cart
I guess you are talking about last? Let's talk numbers: The width/height of the main route choke is exactly the same as on Upward, the ramp down is a bit longer than on Borneo, but gives you about the same visibility into last. Over A3 and A4, 83% of all rounds were won by BLU, with an median time of about 12 minutes (The map gives you 15 plus overtime, longest round was 16:15.) Yes, last is harder to to push than the other caps, but thats kinda the point. From what i've seen from the replays, a lot of flanks do indeed work. I don't want to make this even easier for BLU to win.

@ruthless
somehow i scraped up against this wall just right and floated there while pushing w (as soldier)
I'll check it out, i guess you got stuck between the last ramp and the deathpit. There's probably a way of fixing it by clipping it.

 

[MegapiemanPHD]

@MegapiemanPHD
getting stuck on something here
Mh, there should be nothing there to cause this. I'll try to replicate it.

OK so here's the thing. I got stuck there for some reason and couldn't figure it out. I kept bumping into something but there was nothing there. It wasn't like it was a spy either because those show when you bump into them and none showed. After walking out of that area I came back and tried to replicate it but couldn't for some reason. Watch the demo and see if you can find what I'm talking about. It was very odd.