TF2Maps.net Major Contest #14: Connect 5 (Preliminary Voting Thread)

Idolon: Almost unplayably slow because most of the map renders at all times. It seems interesting but also hilariously open - playing anything but scout feels like i need to just rush the point and hide behind cover if I want to accomplish anything, since both train paths offer sniper an incredible view that is mostly just countered by other snipers.

red3pit: TERRIBLE framerate (sometimes even 10fps), because it renders from spawn to spawn. Visuals are not too bad (i dunno whether you got rid of "borrowed" brushes or not), but there were still some dev texutres around. Gameplay wise it was not too bad.

Da Spud Lord: Overall, I give this map a good rating. Despite a bunch of small issues, the map is still wonderfully detailed with a great layout, and I really hope you fix these issues. Aside from my comments below, I also left some feedback using the server !fb system.
-Great detailing and nice easter eggs, but still some dev textures on Blu side
-Good layout, open map that limits sightlines well
-Unique concept for mid
-Constant error in top right: overflowed CClientRenderablesList group 7
-FPS kept jumping up and down; need more optimization?
-Invisible props
-A few clipping issues, such as the interior beams on Red side
-Snowing indoors
-Broken red resupply cabinets

14bit: The spaces feel good and the routes feel unique, I really like this layout. My main gameplay gripe is the trains; I love trains in maps but this one is really short, frequent, and too fast. It's a neat idea for a point, but it feels like a random unpredictable death since they go so fast. The main reason this would have been a no was the framerate and lack of optimization. On most KotH maps I get somewhere around 150 FPS but here I struggle to get 30. It's a real shame that you copied from other maps, since I really like the layout of this map. Don't plagiarize next time.

Idolon: Relatively enjoyable? It appears competent, just under-tested. The map stalemated hard when attacking the final point, but the geometry was fun to navigate and the layout made sense (although some parts were a bit tricky to figure out at first).

red3pit: Very stalematy. Once one team captures second point, it's and endless fight. Bit dark at some spots. Visuals could be bit better.

Messing Around: i respect 5cp mappers, cause it's hard, balancing 5 points back & forth is a pain in the ass. Your map has alot of problems, 2nd is hard to hold while last is hard to push, but the layout is interesting

14bit: This was almost a yes, but I'll have to go with a no after a 30 minute stalemate. The main issue is that it's just too small. Final is really cramped when there's 18 people fighting through the doorways, and final and mid seem to be closer to each other than final and second. The details and visuals are pretty alright, they look fine. I really like the area and layout between final and second, if you find a way to make that less chokey it'll be really fun.

red3pit: overscaled and ugly.

14bit: The layout is confusing and has some rather nasty sightlines and blind corners right out of spawn. Areas are just awkward to traverse and don't fit together well. There's some neat ideas here, like the health on the log above the saws, but the map around the ideas is not very fun.

Asd417: I like that you chose a theme that is underused. (night/town) but there are a lot of problems with the map. First of all the layout is overscaled. Massively. The layout choice are quite questionable as well, with the map having multiple mid. There are highgrounds in flanks there are saw in the flank and I dont agree because I think such hazard need to be more involved with the central gameplay not tuck away from the objective. Some routes are very tight and the lighting is too inconsistent that it is impossible to recognize the player in some areas.

14bit: I don't have much to say about this one since I was in a test with lower player counts and was trying to figure out what map needed to be tested yet between lives. I looks pretty nice, the layout seems solid, and I really like the train. Getting up to the bridge on mid felt strange for some reason. The stairs were fun to fight on. Good work.

Idolon: Fell victim to most of the same issues that CTF always seems to fall to, in that splitting the attention of a pub team leads to disorganized play. The flag room seemed interesting, but it was let down by a giant uninteresting lobby and a rather chokey mid.

red3pit: first thing I see when loading map is some concrete block and unalligned textures. That's not a good starting point. Map generally looks bland. It feels bit flat, with only real height variation being sealed from the main areas. Oh, and fix your hdr, it's too bright.

Messing Around: i like the idea of giving the Attacker a highground platform to Flag area, and 2 seperated routes on mid; but meh

Da Spud Lord: I have not had the chance to fully judge this map, so these notes are incomplete and may change.
-Simple, blocky brushwork gives sense of poor detailing

14bit: It's not bad, it's not great. Visually it's nothing to write home about, though I don't feel it's quite at the level to call it an RC. The lighting isn't pleasing to look at at all. Gameplay wise, it's got issues. It's too easy to hold the center of the map and hold people in the starting courtyard, and the flag is really hard to defend. It's better than a lot of CTF maps I've seen tested around here, but it still has some issues that need working out.

Idolon:A distinct lack of map structure makes this more of a deathmatch map than a KotH map. Every route sorta blends into the others, making nowhere a safe place to hold and pushing onto the point is difficult. As an engineer, I was unable to find a single suitable spot for a teleport exit or dispenser because nowhere is safe.

There is also a distinct lack of interesting height variation. The majority of the map is on one flat playing field, and most of the height differences don’t actually provide super useful opportunities of attack/defense because of their distance from the objective (and their relative lack of safety).

The detailing is ok - fairly standard TF2 shacks executed well, but with few distinctive features that make this map memorable for its looks. Interiors end up being pretty boring, but I think this is actually to blame on the layout, as none of the interior spaces are large enough to do anything worthwhile with.

red3pit: Fog is lacking. Few unalligned textures here and there. Outside of that HUGE highground overlooking the middle, it feels flat. Height variation would really help it.

Messing Around: (random thought) seem like your map was inspired by koth_viaduct alot, but your map is very flat with a ton of covers, no optimization, uneccessary (and could be) overpowered high ground flank route that allow you to see all over the CP, also asymmetrical buildings that actually affect the gameplay

14bit: The details in the map are rather nice, but the gameplay is nothing to write home about. The point is very difficult to capture, and the routes though the map don't fell fleshed out well. The lighting is also rather bright and makes everything look flat and boring.

Asd417: Lack of Fog really hurt the visuals of this map. Skybox looked because of it. Some areas are still quite prop-heavy like near the stairs that goes up to the platform that is overlooking the point. Layout is fairly uninteresting as it is a flat land with some high buildings and clear hills. Some height variations that is not as drastic as stairs or a steep ramp would have been nice. The depth of the water is not significant enough to make a difference to the gameplay. The quality of the detail does not look positive in most areas. There are many props placed in what seems like random locations. This map reminds me of my very first map in terms of layout.

red3pit: I'm not a fan of plr, but I enjoyed this one. I really like the tug of war on third stage. Visually it's bit lacking.

red3pit: I liked this one from early versions, really happy with how it turned out.

Messing Around: Red needs to have more time rebuilding their defense after losing 1st point
if you read the stats on feedback.tf2.maps, you can see that Blu has ~60% win-rate out of all the latest playtests
and when Red wins, it's always on the 1st capture point, they don't have a chance on 2nd

14bit: It looks nice despite the horrible framerates and some really dark rooms, but I'm on the fence about the gameplay. I'm not a fan of the playspaces in the map, but it's functional. It deserves a yes from how polished it is and the fact that it seems to play well, but this one is the one I am the most hesitant about for now just because of personal tastes and the framerate issues.

Carange: Hazyfort feels like a good mix between egypt and gorge, with clever use of high variation in a 2cp map. The map looks very good too. The only problem is I've not really played it on balanced teams, so I'm not sure how balanced it is yet.

Idolon: Seems decent? It’s scaled well and no one class feels particularly powerful, which is baseline “ok” for a map. The layout is way bigger than it needs to be and feels like a deathmatch map with an optional objective more than a proper KotH map.

red3pit: Detailing feels bit incosistent. I guess you were trying to go for abandoned city feel (at least it feels like you were going for it) but i think you mixed too many non matching stuff. There is also few non aligned textures, or just weird looking ones (like displacement brick hole, this thing will hunt me in my sleep). Map feels too big. I feel like that route with deathpit is just unnecessery.

14bit: I really want to love this map but there's a big problem with it, literally; it's too big. The details are fantastic and the gameplay spaces are unique and interesting, but there's too much of it. Cut out half of the map (horizontally) and it'll be really cool. The cliff area and the point are really really neat, but the spawn positions tend to push players towards the less interesting half of the map (in my opinion).

Idolon: The layout is interesting and I’m intrigued by where this map could go in future versions, but it just isn’t fun to play as offense or defense in its current incarnation. The layout is confusing and, at times, felt really limited in how I could approach it as a player because of how the routes split up and because of how snipers could control a lot of ground.

red3pit: I don't like second point, everything is just too big, too high and the point area feels... oddly cramped. First point is a bit blue sided in my opinion. Visuals could be better (i know why it isn't detailed tho, you said that in discord).

14bit: I feel this deserves a shot based on the potential alone, but that's a highly subjective opinion. I think I liked some of the older, more difficult to push versions better, though my views may be skewed from low player counts/unbalanced teams in the test I was in. It still seemed fun. I'm not a terribly big fan of the direction the art is going—I thought it would have looked great with a lumberyard-like theme more—but snow was a requirement for you so I can't complain.

Carange: While not complete detailed yet (as far as I know) log place is the map I've had the most fun out out of the ones I've played. It is the most balanced attack/defend maps I've seen in a while and there is a ton of funny obstacles and interesting geometry.

red3pit: I think idea behind the map is intresting, but is badly executed. Assymmetrical layout for symmetrical gamemode doesn't feel good, there are some annoying unclipped places and the gameplay area is just a box filled with small buildings you can stand on.

14bit: Medieval PD is a cool idea, but your execution is flawed. Having the map be non-symmetrical is fine and actually pretty cool; the issue lies in having only one capture area that is always enabled. This means that points can't really build up in the map, and there is no mad dash to deposit it all when the point is opened, which is the highlight of PD for me. There's also very little height variation in the actual map, and all of the areas feel pretty much the same. UPDATE: Being able to run along the wires is fantastic, thank you for pleasantly surprising me!

Idolon: I have no opinion on this map beyond it feeling big and not being well-lit. I had the slightest glare on my screen and it made the map very difficult to play, so I did not.

red3pit: Unfinished, rough, but not too bad detailing. Deathpit under first point is almost unnoticeable, until you fall into it. Second point very hard to push at.

Messing Around: the whole map is a "climb the hill" contest, First point favors Blu too much, so many routes from left to right and even behind. While Last point layout is very interesting, but Blu doesn't have much options, only 2 main attack routes and both are on low ground, if you give time for Red to setup a proper defense, there's no way you can cap it

14bit: I really like this take on a city theme. There's not many maps that attempt it nowadays, and this one stands out with the mix of construction and finished interiors. It's not the best looking, but it'll get there. The gameplay spaces are really interesting and I enjoy the unique use of diagonals and split levels that you played with to make unique-feeling areas. It didn't seem to play the best and the points felt strange to defend, but I'll be watching this in the future.

Idolon: I’ve been told that this map plays well normally, but for whatever reason we were just completely unable to get a balanced match, and it played miserably.

red3pit: Even tho I like the work Freyja did with detailing, I haven't enjoyed playing the map. Was feeling chokey bit too many times. Could use a little more open space.

14bit: I didn't care for the gameplay in the first few versions, but it's really fun now. I may be slightly biased for suggesting Red's forward spawn location in a stream. Excellent art direction, great work Freyja! My main complaint is final; it's weird to both attack and defend and I can never tell if I'm having a good time or not.

Carange: I have played Oasis but never got a good feeling playspace-wise since I never played it that long. That aside the map looks beautiful, much better than the other Egyptian maps.

Asd417: first of all, stunning visuals. New Egypt seems very hopeful and it sets up an excellent standard for all future egypt maps. About the gameplay, It is pretty unique. Around the oasis has good height variety and it has a feel of
almost deathmatch kind of area which I think is a good thing since it doesnt hurt the objective because of the limited space. The enterance and the exit of the oasis however, are quite chokey. It is not as bad as goldrush like some people say but it is still a tunnel. You cant get a great gameplay in a tunnel. There were times when I felt that I had no chance of defending the cart because of the choke.

Idolon: I can’t honestly critique the layout or design of this map because most of it is pitch black and I don’t understand the gamemode.

red3pit: bit too big, i don't like the gamemode, ugly.

Messing Around: no optimization, overscaled, flat layout, bad lighting, and where the fuck are the other CP beside mid?

14bit: The first time I played this it crashed me and half of the server, though I won't hold that against it. My main complaint is that it's confusing and frankly quite ugly. The lighting is a really off-putting color and the flickering lights did not help the visuals at all. Rooms tend to have pitch-black walls and a single light in the center, meaning it's hard to see anything when in the lower buildings. I only ever found the center point (at least, according to the HUD) during both of my playtests, and I still have no idea what the gamemode is supposed to be. The spaces felt overscaled and it was difficult to figure out where to go.

red3pit: I like visuals, tho some areas feels bare. Some places are bit too tight, but it feels good.

Messing Around: this is how 2CP Arena mode layout should be, no base, 2 capture points in the middle area, the players have to make decision between each point

14bit: I really like this one. It's a great fast-paced 2CP arena with a solid layout and unique areas to fight in. I'm a big fan of how much variation you've managed to pack into such a small space. I would have liked a few more ammo packs in the lower areas, but that's just a nitpick. The detailing is neat so far, great work! Don't listen to those saying it's too small or needs a more defined mid; I think it's just the right size for what it seems to be trying to be.

Idolon: Enjoyable! There’s some pretty long sniper sightlines and I think spawn times/positions need some work, but I had fun playing on either team, which is basically ideal. The A point is a point design I haven’t really seen before, and it seems to work. B is less fun, but I’d like to see blue given a forward spawn before trying to pick it apart.

red3pit: first map feels bit odd, overscaled or too much height variation. First point feels not bad tho. Second is almost impossible to attack. Can't say much on visuals since it's only alpha.

Messing Around: your map layout and the trains concept are cool, but since this is a "last panic minutes" map and no playtesting before... (i mean your map has flaws, not just bc your map is A1)
keep working on it
Edit: i changed my mind, your map works really well despite only in A1

14bit: This was almost my most difficult no, but now it's a yes. I love the uphill fight and the large sightlines on A, and the positioning of B in relation to A feels fresh. Using the trains as cover to sneak around the defenders on second is really fun. Second needs work though, the sightlines are a bit brutal and it's quite a walk for blu. Consider looking into a forward spawn for blu or finding some other way to get blu to the front lines faster for attacking second. It's got a few neat ideas that could be really cool with some work, and I'm excited to see it evolve.

Idolon: A seems okay, B is a mess. There’s some neat ideas present and a lot of potential, but pushing into B is an unintuitive brick wall. The main routes are easily watched and spammed out, offering blue little ability to so much as counter-snipe. Small chokes offer alternative routes into the area, but it’s a purgatorial maze of walkways that Red has a distinct advantage on, more or less only allowing Blue access when Red gets bored with the area and forgets to defend it.

Regardless, this is one of the better maps I’ve played for this contest. It just needs more development, which I think the author already knows.

red3pit: Submitting aplha version for a contest is bit risky, i must say. Map felt overscaled, especially area between blue spawn and A point. Connector to B feels like a maze.

Messing Around: the map is a bit overcomplicated, on point A you can remove the "death-pit" area (the right side flank area for Blu) and it still works, the whole place is just spread out too much. Also the rollout time for Red from Spawn to A is very long, include the train keep blocking players; maybe that's why the captime is insanely long, but that's no fun.
The B point, i don't like the long highground flank that leads the players right onto the point, that feels very cheap; again, so many routes that spread out the fight too much, also the train though
There's an unused area on Red spawn' right side, that should be removed imo
Overall, the map is actually very promising, just reduce & simplify the layout and remove the train (since the contest has ended)

14bit: It's really promising and quite close, but not quite there gameplay wise. First often is very hard to attack, and awkward to get to while defending. Other times it's a complete steamroll. Players defending aren't funneled towards the point well, and routes take to to strange places. My first instinct was to move first towards blu's side a bit so it's in the building with the roof so that there's not as much immediate high ground around it, but now after playing it more I'm not sure. Second is neat and fun to both defend and attack, but feels a bit cramped.

Idolon: It seems okay? It’s a typically naive approach to payload design - cart goes through the middle, there’s buildings on either side, usually the cart is the lowest path. It’s a formula that works, but doesn’t produce the most interesting or unique map to play on, but that’s a tall order for what I’m guessing is a newer mapper’s project. I was able to find some fun on this and I wouldn’t hate playing it more.

red3pit: Map felt too big. Especially path from blue spawn to A was feeling too long. Detailing rough, using same textures on each building is not too good idea. Weird visual bug in blue spawn (gap in the floor, seemed like you move it by 1hu).

Messing Around: i appreciate your effort in the map, but it's too long (not overscaled, but massive), and have so many errors like floating dev texture brush on Blu spawn, or some off grid brushes, not open doors, lack of signs,.....
About the layout, the map has so many empty rooms that serve only one purpose (like hiding), i think these rooms help overscale your map; also that there're just so many routes that make Red very hard to defend and have to split the team out too much

14bit: The visuals are bland, the cart got stuck on final so Blu couldn't win, and it's confusing to navigate both due to the layout and the fact that everything looks the same. All rounds I've played the cart just kept going as it's impossible for red to set up anywhere to defend except for final.

Idolon: This map seems like it was designed by making a giant flat plane and putting stuff on it until it didn’t feel empty. There aren’t any height differences that occur over the course of the map (all you get are objects to stand on top of) and there is very little overall structure to the map, allowing flanky/fast classes to basically do as they please. Scouts did very well in our test.

The artpass is okay. The overall composition of it feels competent while the execution of individual details does not - the buildings themselves are interesting shapes that feel very TF2, but the lighting and use of textures (wood grain facing the wrong way) doesn’t hold up.

red3pit: Lots of weird lightning glitches, HDR could be lowered. Detailing is bit unfinished, but it looks not bad. Most healthpacks are basicly in one place. Some heights could be little smaller. If you jump onto a train, you can get stuck in tunnel. Was fun.

Messing Around: the map is abit too big, favor Sniper, the middle area is kinda boring, flat ground filled with some covers (trees, rocks, walls and a train)

14bit: I really like this one. It's a bit wide, but it seems to play well. I like how flat it is while still feeling... not flat? I'm not sure how to describe it. There's a few minor issues like the train's hitbox being taller than the logs, the train only ever going one way, and the dropdown hole being quite small, but I like it so far. Great work!

Idolon: An interesting idea that may be fatally flawed paired with a flawed layout, making it difficult to tell if the mode has any merit.

The layout isn’t very intuitive (spawns face away from the center) but it’s simple enough to grasp pretty quickly. The control point being on a boat (and requiring a berth around the boat to turn around when it is capped, at least I am assuming that’s the intention) means every important gameplay space is surrounded by deep water, which is irritating to fight in. The two major open areas also leave a bit to be desired, with long sightlines and limited choices on how to approach the battle. Scouts thrive on this map (our test had both teams with two scouts in top scoring position, with more points than the rest of their teams by a wide margin).

As the boat circles the map, large parts of the map that connect spawn to spawn go unused, allowing sneaky classes absolutely no challenge in coming up directly behind the enemy. Flanking classes should have to try.

The detailing feels like a decent first draft. The lighting is almost black in many areas, making them difficult to play in.

red3pit: Very small and very dark. Lotsa water in gameplay space made it even more uncomfortable. I like the idea of moving control point. Detailing wasn't too bad.

Messing Around: the map concept is pretty cool, kinda dumb-dumb fun, but the layout is not workout

Da Spud Lord: I love the concept. The layout is good and supports it well, but some improvements could be made.
-Excellent idea, good execution
-Map could be brighter in some places
-What's the point of the retractable bridges?
-Water will be pyroshark territory, I'd reduce the canal width so players don't need to jump in the water to get to the CP

14bit: I want to vote yes, but there's some issues that stop me. I like the whole concept, and the logic seems to work quite well, but there's some quirks that bug me. It's really hard to get on the boat, it flips your view 180 degrees when you capture it (I think?), and the propeller can kill you. The layout of the map is also quite strange, and it's difficult to reach the boat without dying in a lot of cases from what I've seen. I like some of the detailing a lot, but other parts just don't look very good.

Messing Around: the layout concept of having 2 defensive bases with a CP in each base, makes the match very stalemate,
because after you capture the closest point, the next step is the next point, but since it's in the enemy base, your team has to take risk attacking and lose the round;
while arena_yanqing has the same concept, it's (abit) harder to hold

14bit: Pretty fun, unique use of a split-level capture point. Not a huge fan of the difficulty rotating between the interior and exterior spaces, but it plays pretty well from what I've seen. I don't have much else to say really, great work.

Asd417: A 2cp arena map that has a fun layout. I liked the in-out sort of 'reverse detail' where you put the 'outside' away from the mid of the map. I think you could have made the OOB detail for each sides different but I like the idea and the layout. However, the lighting is mostly flat and I dont feel like the detail managed to make the place feel alive.

Da Spud Lord: Blocky brushwork, cramped layout. I like some of the things done with the layout, but it's not enough to justify a yes vote.
-Simple, blocky brushwork gives sense of poor detailing
-Mostly indoors and cramped, few open spaces

14bit: This also suffers from a reoccurring issue that a lot of these entries had: it's too small. There's very little distance between mid and final, and it's very narrow. I only played it in a 6v6, I can't imagine how cramped this would be in a full 12v12. The playspaces aren't bad, but they need more room to breathe.

Carange: For a second map it plays pretty well, but it falls into 2 quite common traps. Room-corridoor-room syndrome, and that the map takes place in very small spaces, or inside. Some small spaces with props make them quite fun the play around, but the map just has little flow.

Messing Around: lot of annoying saws and a deathpit, while the layout is very simple

Da Spud Lord: Blocky brushwork, layout needs more work.
-No version numbers, all versions have the same name; I got booted from the server because of a version mismatch
-Blu forward spawn is super easy to camp, close the door when players aren't using it, add a second door, and/or widen the doorway and hallway outside blu's spawn
-Simple, blocky brushwork gives sense of poor detailing
-So many saws, is this an april fools map?
-Transition building from first blu spawn courtyard to first CP area is cramped and annoying to push through when the enemy is spamming the entrances, have at least one doorway that's nice and open

14bit: I like this map. Sure, it's got its' flaws, but it's got a lot of charm. The uphill fight at the start is pretty neat, though it might work better with a flank and if it was more of an actual hill than a bunch of switchbacks. I'd cut down on the number of sawblades and maybe expand the area right before first as well. The layout around the point feels very unique, but needs some work/maybe a rescale. There's some weird routing going into final that allows Red to push into where Blu is holding; I'd look into fixing that. It's a sold early layout that could easily become something neat with more work, good job!

red3pit: Not fan of detailing, but I had fun playing few rounds on it.[

14bit: The gameplay on this map is fast and intense, and offers just the right amount of variation in the combat spaces. Visually the map is distinct and pleasing, though there's some areas are a little dark and the map just feels a bit... empty.

Idolon: I got so horribly horribly lost while playing this that I’m not sure what to make of it, other than that I did not enjoy it. All of the interiors were incredibly cramped, and the one exterior area was very open and offered me little choice in how to attack the point.

Messing Around: you missed entirely the point of koth, is that the CP is supposed to be the "main" part of the map, not put to the side; lots of TDM and no capping

Da Spud Lord: Layout needs tons of work. Everything except for the mid CP area needs to be made bigger. Also, you don't need 4 different spawnrooms on a KOTH map.
-Confusing layout
-Everywhere but the mid CP area is cramped and weird
-Cool idea, poor execution
-Mid ain't half bad
-Detailing could use some touch-ups, sometimes has weird texture combos

14bit: I like the actual point structure and the tunnels under the point. The color-changing bucket is also fantastic. Unfortunately, the rest of the map is not. The layout is far to large and confusing, full of tight hallywas and strange routes. Signs point the wrong way a lot. The "moving spawns" could maybe work, but not in this way. It's impossible to find the point or tell where enemies will come from as it is. To be completely honest I really don't like the visual style you are going for, it's ugly. It feels more like a Gmod map than a TF2 map to me.

Asd417: Certainly a unique map. This is not your ordinary koth map. Not necessarily a good thing in this case. There are way too many routes a player can take at any moment and most of them are very tight corridors and Hydro has larger routes. The idea of underground complex is unique but the detail in most places feel very out of place. Details are quite low quality with some props placed in inappropriate places. For example, playermodels placed in the map itself is always an unusual thing. A building is made from a few small and randomly placed brushes which certainly did not leave a good taste.