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This is my rant post. This is where I'm going to express my dislike for some of the comments I've received lately about my entry, which are some of the most irritating things that someone can bring up.
One of the things people have been saying to me is: "You know Rexy, you might have actually won this competition if you had included one more stage", which first of all, the voting has just started, and nothing is decided, and secondly, that other people have included 1 stage maps in this competition. And that's the point I've argued for a while, but the reply I get is because I've made it common knowledge that this is just the first of 3 stages for the map.
No where at all in the contest thread does it say anything about being penalized for submitting only one stage of a map. I want to actually put a quote here that says just the opposite:
On top of that, when you create a new theme by yourself you double your workload. A fully detailed 1 stage map with an entirely new theme, rigorously tested for gameplay, done in 5 months? Yes, and goddamn it, I'm proud of that. I don't see anyone else attempting that, and good luck doing it yourself. Any comments about me 'doing less' than the next entrant in the contest that I keep hearing is just flat wrong. The success of this map has nothing to do with the outcomes of the judgement procedures of this contest. I'm done caring what people say. That's the way it's got to be.
I'm done hearing the negative comments and the ridiculous assessments, you can keep it to yourself. This whole contest has been a gigantic put-down spree smear campaign, in my opinion, to make other peoples entries look bad, and that's really disgusting. I'd expect that from politicians, but when I see it from other mappers, it makes me sick.
This concludes my rant.
One of the things people have been saying to me is: "You know Rexy, you might have actually won this competition if you had included one more stage", which first of all, the voting has just started, and nothing is decided, and secondly, that other people have included 1 stage maps in this competition. And that's the point I've argued for a while, but the reply I get is because I've made it common knowledge that this is just the first of 3 stages for the map.
No where at all in the contest thread does it say anything about being penalized for submitting only one stage of a map. I want to actually put a quote here that says just the opposite:
On top of that, when you create a new theme by yourself you double your workload. A fully detailed 1 stage map with an entirely new theme, rigorously tested for gameplay, done in 5 months? Yes, and goddamn it, I'm proud of that. I don't see anyone else attempting that, and good luck doing it yourself. Any comments about me 'doing less' than the next entrant in the contest that I keep hearing is just flat wrong. The success of this map has nothing to do with the outcomes of the judgement procedures of this contest. I'm done caring what people say. That's the way it's got to be.
I'm done hearing the negative comments and the ridiculous assessments, you can keep it to yourself. This whole contest has been a gigantic put-down spree smear campaign, in my opinion, to make other peoples entries look bad, and that's really disgusting. I'd expect that from politicians, but when I see it from other mappers, it makes me sick.
This concludes my rant.
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rexy what the fuck are you talking about
You have the best average scores of any map. Look at these. It rarely dips below 7. 7! The lowest scores you got are from Languid, who admits to having bad taste and also rated every other map in the same range, more or less.
I think you're taking the criticism too far. Stage 1 of Zig is not the same as Powderhorn or Desertion or any other single stage map because they are built and designed differently. Gorge style maps and a single stage of a 3-stage map are very, very different feeling.
You've created a good stage, Rexy. It's beautiful, and people like it. But the criticisms are completely spot on for the first stage of a three stage map. You aren't being penalized for submitting a single stage. No one is saying, "Zig sure is nice, but since he didn't finish, fuck it!" No one is doing that. What people are doing is weighing the gameplay and balance of the first stage because that is what we have to do. When you were testing and you asked for opinions and help, we gave you feedback based on the fact that this is the first stage. It's weighted towards BLU. It's simple. That's what you want.
Unfortunately, we can't give you bonus points for making a weighted map. You've made a good first stage, but presented as a single stage it suffers. It has nothing to do with what other maps are single stages, or the rules, or anything.
Presenting Zig as a single stage map and lying from the start would not have worked. For one thing, people can tell. For another, we'd have steered you in another direction -- one that is more like a single stage map. Then you'd have a single stage map. Would you be better off if you had made a single stage, then? Trick question: that's fucking irrelevant. You have arguably the best scores in the entire contest and there's no reason to be pissing and moaning like you are.
I don't know where you're getting this shit about people thinking you did less or whatever. I don't think anyone has said that. I haven't seen it in the voting thread or in chat. I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Where is the smear campaign? Where are the put downs, Rexy? I don't see them. I just see people like you and certain others who are whining that they aren't sweeping every category with neat little 10s. The feedback and comments that you and others are getting in the thread matches the feedback that has either been given or matches with the map itself. For instance, Zig stage 1 is simple, as it should be, so when presented as a map unto itself it can be unrewarding, gameplay-wise. I don't know what you expect. I really don't know what they fuck you're crying over. Beyond all that, people have personal opinions! Get used to it! You're an artist and you don't understand subjective taste? Seriously?
The bitch fest you pulled last night over certain peoples opinions was pretty fucking ridiculous. Not explaining yourself, continuing to argue, and then insulting people? Even worse. I find it absolutely absurd that you'd whine about put downs during the contest and not see the hypocrisy in calling certain people "fucking idiots". I see more insults out of you lately than everyone else combined.
In short, dear, you're either making up these criticisms or deluding yourself into thinking you've created the perfect TF2 experience, and in either case maybe you need to take a break from TF2M for a bit while the contest wraps up so you don't freak out anymore. Both of the above just aren't true. And if you're going to pull this shit every day -- the argument in chat last night, the tired moaning today when we played Zig, this rant you posted that pre-emptively dismisses everyone -- well shit, man, I'm not sure you can handle creative work and maybe you should try something else, like programming.
You have the best average scores of any map. Look at these. It rarely dips below 7. 7! The lowest scores you got are from Languid, who admits to having bad taste and also rated every other map in the same range, more or less.
I think you're taking the criticism too far. Stage 1 of Zig is not the same as Powderhorn or Desertion or any other single stage map because they are built and designed differently. Gorge style maps and a single stage of a 3-stage map are very, very different feeling.
You've created a good stage, Rexy. It's beautiful, and people like it. But the criticisms are completely spot on for the first stage of a three stage map. You aren't being penalized for submitting a single stage. No one is saying, "Zig sure is nice, but since he didn't finish, fuck it!" No one is doing that. What people are doing is weighing the gameplay and balance of the first stage because that is what we have to do. When you were testing and you asked for opinions and help, we gave you feedback based on the fact that this is the first stage. It's weighted towards BLU. It's simple. That's what you want.
Unfortunately, we can't give you bonus points for making a weighted map. You've made a good first stage, but presented as a single stage it suffers. It has nothing to do with what other maps are single stages, or the rules, or anything.
Presenting Zig as a single stage map and lying from the start would not have worked. For one thing, people can tell. For another, we'd have steered you in another direction -- one that is more like a single stage map. Then you'd have a single stage map. Would you be better off if you had made a single stage, then? Trick question: that's fucking irrelevant. You have arguably the best scores in the entire contest and there's no reason to be pissing and moaning like you are.
I don't know where you're getting this shit about people thinking you did less or whatever. I don't think anyone has said that. I haven't seen it in the voting thread or in chat. I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Where is the smear campaign? Where are the put downs, Rexy? I don't see them. I just see people like you and certain others who are whining that they aren't sweeping every category with neat little 10s. The feedback and comments that you and others are getting in the thread matches the feedback that has either been given or matches with the map itself. For instance, Zig stage 1 is simple, as it should be, so when presented as a map unto itself it can be unrewarding, gameplay-wise. I don't know what you expect. I really don't know what they fuck you're crying over. Beyond all that, people have personal opinions! Get used to it! You're an artist and you don't understand subjective taste? Seriously?
The bitch fest you pulled last night over certain peoples opinions was pretty fucking ridiculous. Not explaining yourself, continuing to argue, and then insulting people? Even worse. I find it absolutely absurd that you'd whine about put downs during the contest and not see the hypocrisy in calling certain people "fucking idiots". I see more insults out of you lately than everyone else combined.
In short, dear, you're either making up these criticisms or deluding yourself into thinking you've created the perfect TF2 experience, and in either case maybe you need to take a break from TF2M for a bit while the contest wraps up so you don't freak out anymore. Both of the above just aren't true. And if you're going to pull this shit every day -- the argument in chat last night, the tired moaning today when we played Zig, this rant you posted that pre-emptively dismisses everyone -- well shit, man, I'm not sure you can handle creative work and maybe you should try something else, like programming.
Leminnes
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- Jan 20, 2010
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honeymustard
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Stage B is ready to play, and uploaded to the server. The changelog is essentially empty because there's nothing to say. Check here for the file:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1293763/zig/cp_zig_stage_b_1a.bsp.bz2
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1293763/zig/cp_zig_stage_b_01.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1293763/zig/cp_zig_stage_b_1a.bsp.bz2
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1293763/zig/cp_zig_stage_b_01.jpg
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Pesky sightlines I feel could be bad... particuallary this first one, right next to a health and ammo pack.
I don't think this will be good for defense
This is just a dull and overly open room that doesn't need this much space
Pretty Nasty Sentry positions
(Moreso this next one could be pretty bad)
Blue door's edges are nodrawn and you can see into whiteness.
Generally I don't know if I like the layout too much. the way you have the spawns set up, you get blu thinking they need to go straight ahead, and instead they don't, it just messes with and disrupts flow. Some of the hallways are too wide, like the one in shot #4
Also, you have on top blu spawn doors open, yes, they are bulletblocked, but the stickies still stick... you should toss something above them to prevent the inevitable whining that will arise from it.
Also, red can waltz into blue spawn area and up to their single door. Just a MASSIVE pet peeve of mine.
I don't think this will be good for defense
This is just a dull and overly open room that doesn't need this much space
Pretty Nasty Sentry positions
(Moreso this next one could be pretty bad)
Blue door's edges are nodrawn and you can see into whiteness.
Generally I don't know if I like the layout too much. the way you have the spawns set up, you get blu thinking they need to go straight ahead, and instead they don't, it just messes with and disrupts flow. Some of the hallways are too wide, like the one in shot #4
Also, you have on top blu spawn doors open, yes, they are bulletblocked, but the stickies still stick... you should toss something above them to prevent the inevitable whining that will arise from it.
Also, red can waltz into blue spawn area and up to their single door. Just a MASSIVE pet peeve of mine.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1490725/cp_zig_stage_a_180000.jpg
You map is magical. I can Equalizer taunt here and not die. If anybody can explain why that is, I'd like to know. It's more that than me telling you to nonsolidize those lights.
You map is magical. I can Equalizer taunt here and not die. If anybody can explain why that is, I'd like to know. It's more that than me telling you to nonsolidize those lights.
Aw you're so nice. This is why you're awesome.
Except it's still a clipping mistake. After I clipchecked. Technical: 2
Except it's still a clipping mistake. After I clipchecked. Technical: 2
Update to stage_b_4
Moved blu spawn to the center of the 2 lower setup gates.
Added more attack time after taking cp A
Increased the capture point time at A to 6 seconds (was 4)
Added a platform and a few rocks to make the cave more holdable
Moved the red spawn location backwards and down (to increase walk time from spawning to the control point at B)
Download stage_b_4 here (download link on the fist post is for the contest version).
Moved blu spawn to the center of the 2 lower setup gates.
Added more attack time after taking cp A
Increased the capture point time at A to 6 seconds (was 4)
Added a platform and a few rocks to make the cave more holdable
Moved the red spawn location backwards and down (to increase walk time from spawning to the control point at B)
Download stage_b_4 here (download link on the fist post is for the contest version).
Except this stage isn't submitted into the contest D:
*
I actually really had fun on this stage. I'll have to apologise for ruining the last playtest when i randomly teamed up with Snaps and proceeded to Heavy/Kritz-Medic dominate BLU until half the team rage quit.
The rocks protruding above the ledge height around CP1 were really handy for the engineers to place their dispensers away from their sentry nests and closer to where the players actually were. This helped keep me alive and our heavy stocked up and constantly keeping the pressure onto BLU whilst when and if sentry nests got zapped/destroyed the dispenser would stay up else where.
Much of our rapage was easily just incredibly lucky timing when my ubers charged in the middle of combat and the focus firing on Snaps backfired on the entire BLU team.
The length of the ledges meant that Snaps and i could constantly reposition ourselves so snipers and spies could never form up tactics to take us out which was great for us, not so great for the players unable to adapt to a mobile defensive force. My only complaint would be to makes the steps so that you don't have to jump up onto them.
CP2 was a little more problematic for BLU in its positioning. It felt like the travel distance was a lot longer than it should have been on all routes except the primary as there was no benefit to taking the flank because you could be seen a mile off and picked off by snipers and rocket spam on the approach to assault the CP.
If CP 2 was in a more central location in that area it would feel more natural i believe. IE either against the back cliff wall on the other end of the bridge section or where the narrow tower thing is.
Suggestions:
1) Rotate the CP to this position so RED arn't fighting primarily on a flank and BLU's flank is more secluded from direct LoS from the spawn exit:
Possibility 1
2) Move the CP to here, on a ledge surrounded by your rocks. The CP hologram should at least stick out above the rocks for visiblity:
Possibility 2
3) Move the point into the middle on a raised structure. This bring the fighting away from RED's spawn exit and the CP closer to the furthest flank:
Possibility 3
4) Move the CP to the back wall.I imagine this would provide some interesting gameplay and look very unique, although having BLU double back on themselves has proven to by an OP defensive bonus for RED in the past and the low visibility of the CP would probably confuse BLU players trying to find where to go.
Possibility 4
Obviously, as author, feel free to mix up any of those suggestions. Essentially it felt like A) bring the far flank closer to the CP and/or provide more visual cover so they can't spot flanks a mile off and make it so RED aren't fighting on their right flank the entire time. It made combat really boring for RED when it amounted to just spamming and assaulting through that single tunnel and to mop up any straddling players in the low ground around the tower thing. There was also a complete lack of decent sentry positions. They all got sniped by snipers, DH and grenade spam and never had the time to get up past level 1 with the amount of skirmishing scouts.
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I think those are great suggestions, but play the new version before you come to any final conclusions. I think I alleviated some of the issues by moving red spawn back. I'm not against experimentation though, I'd like to try some of those positions and see what happens, in the case that the current changes don't work.
That picture I had, grazr, where I made Technical be 2 jokingly. Is of BLU spawn Stage 1.
Alright, I think I'm going to try grazr's suggestion number 1, which seems to lead itself best both for defense and offense, and pushes the cp back away from all 3 routes. I'll have to have it tested to really know, but hooray for experiments.
Also, some other changes I wanted to try:
More space to move around in the cave here...
A building here with closed off windows. They'd make overpowered sniper spots, but I wanted at least to let players see out. I'll put some metal/health in here and see what happens.
And lastly make a building out of this rockface, that way it'll make attacking and defending the CP more interesting.
Also, some other changes I wanted to try:
More space to move around in the cave here...
A building here with closed off windows. They'd make overpowered sniper spots, but I wanted at least to let players see out. I'll put some metal/health in here and see what happens.
And lastly make a building out of this rockface, that way it'll make attacking and defending the CP more interesting.