Ultimate Mapping Resource Pack 2014-11-06

[Pocket]

Considering only the site staff can update the official download of the pack, and I trust the staff to vet any contributions people might want to make, that's not really something I expect we'll have to worry about.

 

[Crash]

Considering only the site staff can update the official download of the pack, and I trust the staff to vet any contributions people might want to make, that's not really something I expect we'll have to worry about.

We're definitely not editing the post of someone else's content to release another persons content, especially when they specifically requested people not edit that content...

 

[Pocket]

So we're just going to have this incomplete pack pinned here forever? Because it was my understanding that this was considered an official TF2Maps.net product, just like the asset packs, and that everyone who wants to map for TF2 was expected to have it installed. And if you're going to grant something that kind of status, it should be open to being kept up to date by the site's staff. What else are we supposed to do, start over making a new pack from scratch—wasting effort replicating work that someone else already did—only to have the staff probably refuse to host it because we're "being disrespectful by copying Booj's work", or something?

 

[Pocket]

To be clear, I don't mean any of the above as a slam against Booj, whose work I appreciate probably more than anyone else here and who I'm sure is a good sport. I don't begrudge him for putting that clause in there. I'm just saying that it's the right thing to do to throw that out the window if faced with the choice to either hand responsibility of keeping it updated to someone else or be stuck leaving it unfinished forever. I've seen it happen too many times in the Source development community alone—someone creates a useful tool, then mysteriously vanishes leaving a tool no one else can update, and all anyone can do is start over. And then THEY disappear, and the cycle just keeps repeating. That's why I was so glad when CompilePal finally came out, because finally we had a tool that wasn't beholden to a single creator and was being maintained by a team whose membership can change over time as people inevitably cycle out of the community.

 

[Crash]

So we're just going to have this incomplete pack pinned here forever? Because it was my understanding that this was considered an official TF2Maps.net product, just like the asset packs, and that everyone who wants to map for TF2 was expected to have it installed. And if you're going to grant something that kind of status, it should be open to being kept up to date by the site's staff. What else are we supposed to do, start over making a new pack from scratch—wasting effort replicating work that someone else already did—only to have the staff probably refuse to host it because we're "being disrespectful by copying Booj's work", or something?

This is not a official tf2maps thing, it's a booj thing. It's stickied because it's a very useful tool that we recommend using. Staff have nothing to do with this pack, I wouldn't even know where to begin to update it, as I've never worked with that side of things.

If someone wanted to do it the right way and you know, ask him for permission to take over the project, that'd be an entirely different thing. It's not like he vanished entirely. Oh look he's online on steam right now, I'll be proactive and send him a message since I'm sure no one else tried that yet.

You're trying really hard to be bothered, here.

 

[Crash]

And to further clarify, the asset packs are not official TF2Maps anythings, we just host the content here. Those packs belong to the creators entirely.

 

[A Boojum Snark]

I'll address this in the morning. Replying on a complicated subject that I haven't thought about in awhile after getting irritated will just result in a knee-jerk statement that doesn't properly convey my thoughts and feelings.

 

[Pocket]

You know what, whatever you wanted to say to me, just say it. I know it's true. I'm a piece of shit who shouldn't be allowed around decent human beings and I'm sorry. Crash, just... just fuckin' delete my account or something. I'm sick of opening my mouth and the only thing that ever comes out is garbage.

 

[ficool2]

Its only the FDG and entity icons that I want to redistribute. I'm not going to modify/redestribute the installer or any exe

 

[Pocket]

Honestly I don't even know why I decided to go off like that in this thread in particular in the first place. There's nothing in this pack that doesn't still work, and the last time I pointed out something that could stand to be added—giving func_areaportalwindows LOD spheres—I'm pretty sure it was.

I need to just stop having opinions about things, because all they ever do is hurt people. Literally the first thing I did when I signed up here—and you can look it up if you don't believe me—was criticize someone. Someone who's contributed more to this community than I could ever dream of. Does anyone even know me as anything but "that guy who's always hyper-critical about everything"?

Y'all just keep doing what you do and don't ever feel like you have to justify it to anyone else.

 

[A Boojum Snark]

You know what, fuck "license agreements" on free, community-made products. If somebody makes something out of a genuine desire to be helpful to people, then they shouldn't be upset when others want to be helpful as well. And if they are upset, well maybe it was never about wanting to be helpful in the first place; it was about their own egos and a pathological need to be depended on, and in that case fuck what they wanted.

I only added that page for something for me to point at AFTER an actual case of someone taking it and rehosting (don't remember if they changed anything) my package on FPSbanana (or is it gamebanana now, I think?). My intent was to ensure people were coming to the source for it so they could keep up to date on changes to it, and so I could help people who had issues, rather than thinking a one-off rehost was all there ever was. Hence the message pointing people to this thread, so that if it DID get hosted or shared elsewhere, they would at least be pointed in the right direction.
(p.s. the "license agreement" terminology was just the built in labeling of that page in the nullsoft install system, I didn't choose it)

You know what, whatever you wanted to say to me, just say it. I know it's true. I'm a piece of shit who shouldn't be allowed around decent human beings and I'm sorry.

What I said above is pretty much what I was going to say, I didn't have any harsh words to direct at you, and for what it's worth, back when I hung around I never thought you were terrible (and some others do still stick in my mind as terrible).

How do I update tf_abs.fgd to include entities added after November 2014 while still including the changes that the ABS pack has (i.e. new sprites)?

I'm making an updated FDG with ABS, ISPuddy and my FGD combined, including new icons for all entities that are left, made by myself. Soon to be finished

It is probably worth mentioning that FGDs are hierarchical and will override anything duplicated in an FGD they @include, which is how mine works in the first place. No need to actually edit an existing one. For example, spycrab's FGD could simply @include tf.fgd, mine, and puddy's in that order, adding whatever is necessary and overriding things that are outdated.

So as for the main issue at hand...
My protectiveness of this resource was a result of wanting to maintain quality. I was/am a very technical thinker and mapper (as evidenced by the plethora of crazy stuff I made while never releasing a finished map). Most of the FGD stuff grew out of my own desire to have things easier to work with and bring things in valve left out. The libraries and material browser stuff were the same, easing my own workflow and sharing with the public because I could. While I put a ton of work into keeping this updated once it became The Thing™ to have, I can't really claim any of it as my content aside from the entity icons.

During my period of fading away from TF2M the necessity of updating seemed to be waning significantly. More of the entities they added were put into the default FGD at launch, more of the props were complicated and unique set pieces that didn't really warrant inclusion in a library of generic multipurpose props, what few games modes were added were gimmicky and/or handled entirely by the code in plug-and-play entities. Updates weren't really a cool moment of discovery for me anymore because all the new stuff was "boring" from my perspective of tinkering.

I will admit that I have no idea what the state of the game or mapping for it is anymore. I had kept reading comics/update news for a year or two after I stopped playing but even that has ceased. I do not know how many things are missing by default or being potentially broken/hidden by my older FGD entries. I would be incredibly surprised if they added any generic props since I disappeared, but the library was already getting unstable as it was (I had been thinking about culling all those set pieces).

I have thought about peeking back and pushing out an update every so often, but the aforementioned reasons discouraged me from even finding out how useful such an update would be, and also not wanting to be "out of touch" in doing/adding things that are useless or nobody needs. I have been thinking more about that this year, and wanting to seriously make an effort to get this thing up to date and potentially in a more freely accessible manner that others could maintain, as this coming christmas will be the 10th anniversary of the first prop library release.

I definitely have an emotional attachment to this whole thing and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't resistant to handing it off to be taken care of by another. I do have an ego that this feeds, I knew how to do more things that pretty much anyone else on the site (most of you started with TF2, I started with HL1). I'm protective because as a perfectionist I worried I'd leave it in the hands of someone who couldn't live up to what it was. It's not a pathological need to be depended on, but rather a pathological need to help people and solve problems. Online and Offline. For years after I drifted away from TF2M I'd still pleasantly assist random people messaging me on Steam with mapping issues. I take great pride in seeing the download numbers every time I happen to come back to the site and know that I've created something that helped thousands (if not tens of thousands) of people in their creative and artistic endeavor of level design.

However I recognize that neglect has and will continue to leave this resource in much the same state as passing it off to a lesser caretaker (at this point can anyone be less than one who does nothing?).
Despite my desires to get this in a better state for the future and whatever misgivings I may have, I do not know if or when I'll find the time and motivation to do anything, and I do not want to be seen as a selfish saying "dont touch mah stuff" for no good reason.

If someone wants to edit, borrow from, or alter my FGD to keep things up to date, please do so. Consider the "license agreement" a relic of a time when it was created.
As I mentioned earlier, it isn't really "my" content, especially since there is only one way to make a valid FGD. Doing it from scratch would result in the same exact code.

This thread and pack will still be here as a starting point, and I may yet do something to bring this up to date myself. If anyone would be willing to fill me in on how out of date this is, it would be appreciated. Is there stuff being hidden/broken by my FGD? Have they added more generic props or is it still big stuff made for one map? Are any of my game modes broken or have they added any worth creating a template for? There is a lot of stuff to look at for any potential work I would do on this, and hints in the right direction would help.

-As usual, this has been an entirely-too-long post by yours truly, A Boojum Snark-
p.s.: see Crash, I told you it would be!

 

[ficool2]

I only added that page for something for me to point at AFTER an actual case of someone taking it and rehosting (don't remember if they changed anything) my package on FPSbanana (or is it gamebanana now, I think?). My intent was to ensure people were coming to the source for it so they could keep up to date on changes to it, and so I could help people who had issues, rather than thinking a one-off rehost was all there ever was. Hence the message pointing people to this thread, so that if it DID get hosted or shared elsewhere, they would at least be pointed in the right direction.
(p.s. the "license agreement" terminology was just the built in labeling of that page in the nullsoft install system, I didn't choose it)


What I said above is pretty much what I was going to say, I didn't have any harsh words to direct at you, and for what it's worth, back when I hung around I never thought you were terrible (and some others do still stick in my mind as terrible).



It is probably worth mentioning that FGDs are hierarchical and will override anything duplicated in an FGD they @include, which is how mine works in the first place. No need to actually edit an existing one. For example, spycrab's FGD could simply @include tf.fgd, mine, and puddy's in that order, adding whatever is necessary and overriding things that are outdated.

So as for the main issue at hand...
My protectiveness of this resource was a result of wanting to maintain quality. I was/am a very technical thinker and mapper (as evidenced by the plethora of crazy stuff I made while never releasing a finished map). Most of the FGD stuff grew out of my own desire to have things easier to work with and bring things in valve left out. The libraries and material browser stuff were the same, easing my own workflow and sharing with the public because I could. While I put a ton of work into keeping this updated once it became The Thing™ to have, I can't really claim any of it as my content aside from the entity icons.

During my period of fading away from TF2M the necessity of updating seemed to be waning significantly. More of the entities they added were put into the default FGD at launch, more of the props were complicated and unique set pieces that didn't really warrant inclusion in a library of generic multipurpose props, what few games modes were added were gimmicky and/or handled entirely by the code in plug-and-play entities. Updates weren't really a cool moment of discovery for me anymore because all the new stuff was "boring" from my perspective of tinkering.

I will admit that I have no idea what the state of the game or mapping for it is anymore. I had kept reading comics/update news for a year or two after I stopped playing but even that has ceased. I do not know how many things are missing by default or being potentially broken/hidden by my older FGD entries. I would be incredibly surprised if they added any generic props since I disappeared, but the library was already getting unstable as it was (I had been thinking about culling all those set pieces).

I have thought about peeking back and pushing out an update every so often, but the aforementioned reasons discouraged me from even finding out how useful such an update would be, and also not wanting to be "out of touch" in doing/adding things that are useless or nobody needs. I have been thinking more about that this year, and wanting to seriously make an effort to get this thing up to date and potentially in a more freely accessible manner that others could maintain, as this coming christmas will be the 10th anniversary of the first prop library release.

I definitely have an emotional attachment to this whole thing and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't resistant to handing it off to be taken care of by another. I do have an ego that this feeds, I knew how to do more things that pretty much anyone else on the site (most of you started with TF2, I started with HL1). I'm protective because as a perfectionist I worried I'd leave it in the hands of someone who couldn't live up to what it was. It's not a pathological need to be depended on, but rather a pathological need to help people and solve problems. Online and Offline. For years after I drifted away from TF2M I'd still pleasantly assist random people messaging me on Steam with mapping issues. I take great pride in seeing the download numbers every time I happen to come back to the site and know that I've created something that helped thousands (if not tens of thousands) of people in their creative and artistic endeavor of level design.

However I recognize that neglect has and will continue to leave this resource in much the same state as passing it off to a lesser caretaker (at this point can anyone be less than one who does nothing?).
Despite my desires to get this in a better state for the future and whatever misgivings I may have, I do not know if or when I'll find the time and motivation to do anything, and I do not want to be seen as a selfish saying "dont touch mah stuff" for no good reason.

If someone wants to edit, borrow from, or alter my FGD to keep things up to date, please do so. Consider the "license agreement" a relic of a time when it was created.
As I mentioned earlier, it isn't really "my" content, especially since there is only one way to make a valid FGD. Doing it from scratch would result in the same exact code.

This thread and pack will still be here as a starting point, and I may yet do something to bring this up to date myself. If anyone would be willing to fill me in on how out of date this is, it would be appreciated. Is there stuff being hidden/broken by my FGD? Have they added more generic props or is it still big stuff made for one map? Are any of my game modes broken or have they added any worth creating a template for? There is a lot of stuff to look at for any potential work I would do on this, and hints in the right direction would help.

-As usual, this has been an entirely-too-long post by yours truly, A Boojum Snark-
p.s.: see Crash, I told you it would be!

I never expected such a response, thanks for all of the explanation.
It's not out of date as such, its simply missing documentation and explanations for many hidden keyvalues and entities, which I am filling in. I am also adding icons for each of them as it heavily triggers me when making some really complicated stuff and its just boxes.

So in short, I am completely re-doing the FGD from scratch. I am adding documentation and explanations for every entity in the game, and this will be done for TF2, Source 2013 in general, Gmod and Counter Strike Source and GO, and adding icons for every entity so its really convenient.

For anyone who wants a preview of this new FGD, here it is below. This should give you an idea of what I'm doing (note I am checking each entity alphabetically toroughly, so BaseClasses and 70% of other stuff is missing). Also at this point of time, I haven't yet borrowed any of ABS' content, so thats why he is not credited yet.

Have a quick scan through it if you want, you might find some new hidden stuff that you very likely didn't know about.

https://pastebin.com/6GPYmecL

Sorry for my 'empty' writing, I suck terribly in expressing opinions

 

[Heinz Linge]

I need help with this pack.
I was using it 2 years ago and then I stopped mapping.
Now I want to start mapping again and I have a problem with this pack.
The model for info_player_teamspawn doesnt work and im only seeing the hl2 spawn model.
Other models included in this pack also doesnt work for me.

 

[Da Spud Lord]

Try uninstalling and reinstalling the ABS pack.

 

[Heinz Linge]

Try uninstalling and reinstalling the ABS pack.

HOLY SHIT! Dude it worked.
THX M8

 

[SanekOgon]

Thanks for that amazing resource pack!

 

[CaliberPlex]

I started having issues recently when I reinstalled the pack. I'll run a map of my own, open one library, and then when I try to open a second library the entire program just closes out without warning. It's annoying as hell!

Anyone know how to fix this?

 

[DrSquishy]

I started having issues recently when I reinstalled the pack. I'll run a map of my own, open one library, and then when I try to open a second library the entire program just closes out without warning. It's annoying as hell!

Anyone know how to fix this?

The reason the libraries are split up into 3 is because it is a huge amount of props to have in the map. Try closing the first one before you open the next. The page even says not to open more than one at a time!

 

[CaliberPlex]

The reason the libraries are split up into 3 is because it is a huge amount of props to have in the map. Try closing the first one before you open the next. The page even says not to open more than one at a time!

Oh okay. Thanks for the help!

 

[Crash]

I started having issues recently when I reinstalled the pack. I'll run a map of my own, open one library, and then when I try to open a second library the entire program just closes out without warning. It's annoying as hell!

Anyone know how to fix this?

I assume you mean prop library? There's a warning about not opening more than one at a time for this reason.