Well, here we are again. Feedback time! This time we got 20 valid maps, 19 of which successfully fulfilled the prompt and one which accidentally put a major route through the center of a pillar. Overall, the maps were exceptionally high quality on this one, so without further delay let's talk about them!
I think this works! Rotations are fast, rounds are fun. I had a good time working the pillars into the space, and I think I used them well. I was worried that A would be overpowered, having so much high ground over the entrances, but having there be slightly better high ground away from the point and accessible via jump pad fixed the issue before it happened. I was worried that the two points were too close as well, and that having such fast rotations might not work in 2cp, but it turns out that it's actually really fun when rotations are fast in Arena! Despite this A feels the weakest still, and I think it's just the shape of the area next to the point. I may continue this, but don't hold me to that.
I always love to see more Domination maps, since my first map was one. This one does a pretty good job, though player flow is off in some places and you can get caught behind enemy pushes. I think this is because of the pillars, actually; you push towards the enemy to get around a pillar, and can end up behind a push the enemy is already taking to pass the pillar to get to a point, if that makes sense. They're well hidden in the layout though, which is quite impressive. I'd add a few signs inside spawn above the doors like in Standin so you can tell how to get to a point right when you spawn. It's almost impossible to stop a cap from happening in some cases, so there's two options: make cap times longer or add overtime. Personally I love the mad rushes to stop a cap that come from having no overtime, so I'd go with the former. Keeping them short but adding overtime might be interesting though.
I always am impressed by attempts at 90 degree KotH maps, but like all the rest I've seen I'm not convinced it works. The pillars don't seem used well, though they are hidden decently. Trying to get gameplay around them left a lot of seemingly dead space, making it feel like it's either overscaled or there's not enough small cover. Spawns point you the wrong way which is very confusing at first, and there's only one really viable route to mid (the building with the stairs). The point itself is very scary to exist anywhere on, and not having a line on the ground where the zone ends under the roof makes it hard to keep track of the edge of the trigger. Having one route and making it hard to stay alive on the point meant that it was very hard to recap the point after a team claimed it, which wasn't very fun. I'd almost flip where spawn is to the outside of the map, like how Brazil does it so that the current main route is now farther from spawn and the non-roof side of the point sees more combat.
I really like this one. There's a nice use of the pillars and the spaces between them. The main complaint I saw is that some parts of it feel a bit flat, but it's flat in a way that works. Reminded me of Fastlane 2nd a lot, a point which I think is quite fun. A little more height variation in the transition buildings couldn't hurt though, if you do want to make it less flat without actually giving it too much actual height. The inner upper section didn't see much use, but I'm not sure that's actually an issue. I don't think it needs to be made more useful, but removing it would hurt the map more than it helps. Pulling it slightly closer to the point or opening up the room with the window into a balcony could be interesting if you're really set on making it into a more important combat space.
The routing in this map is not great, and it was also unfortunately broken. The fastest way to A for red is tunnel, but signs and geo point up top towards B. Having the track at A be up on a platform is neat, but it's done in such a way that both teams have a hard time actually getting up to the cart from the low ground. It's not terribly interesting, just annoying. Attacking B sucks, since you either have to push through a tunnel at a height disadvantage, or walk way around. One team did manage to push, but I honestly think it was a fluke and just had enough momentum off a big push to carry them. The use of the pillars is really interesting, particularly around B, but it just doesn't end up working as a layout unfortunately. It feels overscaled in parts, but not in others so I can't actually tell. C seems really neat, and I wish I could have seen it played. Blu's forward spawn being between B and C seems like a bad move, almost like there should be another CP right outside of the new spawn.
I like parts of this one, but at the moment it's not quite there. I like your use of pillars, especially final being tucked up to one with red's spawn on the other side. Final works well, and is the most fun part of the map at the moment. Blu's spawn is unfortunately campable. A's idea is cool, but the execution doesn't let red hold. I think it's too easy to approach the point without exposing yourself as an attacker, and there's not a clear place that Red is supposed to hold. Attack Defense is my weak point when it comes to mapping, so I'm not entirely sure what's causing the issues; all I know is that it's far too hard for red at the moment.
Really neat idea! It's got flaws (especially the mode) but I like to see new and interesting ideas, and this one is particularly interesting. As noted during the test, however, it's not working as intended. The spawn times don't tick up fast enough, so it just plays like 1cp instead of an arena variant. Personally, I'd double the starting spawnwave time and test it again, adding one second every 10-15 seconds instead of the current rate of 1 every 30 seconds. Layout-wise, the pillars are well hidden and worked into the layout nicely. I think you might have made the map too small though. The fast spawns and one main area put too much focus on the point; I'd maybe lock the point at the start, and add a second main combat space. If you're looking to pull focus away from the point even more and want to try something really wacky, maybe try the mode idea with 2cp arena in mind? Keeping the same space and adding a second area with a point might be neat.
Instead of building around and among the pillars, using any and all space you could, it seems you restricted yourself to remaining in the narrow corridors between them when the map could have used a lot more breathing room. The whole layout is too narrow and linear, and there's effectively one way to approach the point, making the fights uninteresting and repetitive. Expanding outwards and having a route that goes around one of them as a flank would have been a good idea. Also, the map is way, way too dark, making it impossible to tell who's on your team and who isn't. I wish I could offer you more substantial feedback, but there's so little here to work with that I struggle to find much to say at all.
Neat use of the pillar, I like that it's roughly in the center of the map. I like the outside route with the ammo too, it's a neat little place. However, I think the overall playable space is a bit small. The spawns are very close, and the routes aren't terribly different which means players don't have many interesting choices to make. There's no "second way" to approach the point; you either just enter near your spawn or walk to the enemy's spawn and enter there. Another way in would really help, though I understand you were limited by the pillars. I'd pull spawns back and maybe use some of the newly opened space from not having to avoid the pillars to add another route, or add a route around the pillars if you want to keep the restriction. No real thoughts on the train or bombs, they don't really contribute much.
I like this one. You made nice use of the spaces between the pillars, even if the layout ends up being fairly standard for KotH. Feels a bit like a mix between Synthetic and Slaughter, with how the sides of the point are set up alongside a route under the point. Speaking of, I wish the space under the point was in play more; maybe connect it to one of the side areas? Those were also relatively unused, particularly the one with high ground over the point. I'd investigate if there is a way to get that space into play more often. Generally some pretty good back-and-forth of the point. Not much else for me to say really, one of the more solid entries this time around in my eyes, if a bit forgettable.
Shame that this one was unpacked, it seemed to have some neat ideas! Overall it seems a bit large, probably overscaled. The layout has a lot of pillars worked into it, but it doesn't really feel like it. There's a few weird choices I'm not sure on, like the upper floor in the transition buildings that is just a small dead-end balcony. The small balcony, not the large one. Actually, now that I think about it, I never even realized the large one was there during the test either? I'm unsure if those areas should be made more relevant, removed, or left as-is. I really like the idea of mid (wide point with a roof and little cover, building with route on the side), but the approach to it is too long and open. It's really unique, and quite fun. The missing semi truck would have helped, but I'm not sure it's enough; I'd break from working around the pillars and squish everything closer to mid if you continue. I'd love to play a fixed version of this, it seems like a solid start!
Parts of this remind me of a PLR map I did years ago, particularly the rollback zones with the spawn exits below them. Here though, I don't think those work; without a spawn exit at the top of the ramp it just gives attackers height advantage over the defender's spawn, making the rollback zone trivial to ascend. Especially since the spawn windows are not one-way; attackers know exactly when and where the defenders will exit spawn. Let's talk about the wider PLR design theory for a moment. In PLR, you can either keep the carts near each other to promote fighting, or split up the carts to force teams to divide into attack and defense groups. This map seems to be leaning towards doing the latter, but does it too much. Having the enemy track loop around your spawn means you need to decide if you are attacking or defending before even leaving spawn, and you can't quickly rotate from attack to defense or defense to attack as needed; the carts are too far apart. Combine this track layout with having final being so much higher than the spawns, and the only viable strategy is to pile on the cart so you reach the high ground first. Once a team has the high ground it's over; it's almost impossible to contest. Pushing the spawns out to the corners, and adding an upper spawn exit would probably significantly improve how the map plays without too much effort. It would also let you have more space to work with to rework the start of the tracks; they're insanely close together at the moment and I don't think it works.
It is with deep regret that I must inform you that this map does not successfully complete the challenge, as there is gameplay space within two of the marked exclusion zones. As far as I can remember, this makes you the first person to ever fail a microcontest not because you ran out of time, but because you failed the challenge. The main ramp route into and out of the intel room runs directly though the center of a pillar. I don't think the layout here works; it seems to be trying to be chin-style CTF, but it fails since the routes are too split and force you to pass too close to the enemy spawn with the intel. This pushed teams to just jump back up the drop down with the intel, instead of actually taking the intended route. Adding a shutter to the drop down could help, but I don't think it would solve the core issue. Sliding the rule-breaking intel room exit over to be right next to the intel and no longer running though the pillar I think would be a good start to making it easier to escape. Also, mid is just kind of dull, being a flat room with two shacks and a huge empty space in the center.
At first I thought the map was too small, but I think it's just that all the combat at A happens in a very small space right outside of blu's spawn; the rest seems scaled fine. I like the use of the pillars, you made good use of working them into a layout! It's just a shame that layout doesn't work. I really want to like this (the transition to second is really, really neat!) but first sucks to attack so much it ruins the rest of it. I'd nuke the whole area around blu's spawn, and maybe work in a route around the outside of the pillar it's pushed up against (if you want to keep working around the pillars). Red's first spawn is also being choked by the pillars, though I'm not entirely sure how else you could have fit it in there. Maybe remove the forward spawn entirely? There's some good bits of layout in here, I just wish they weren't connected to the current version of A. I feel bad that I can't offer much more insight other than "A sucks" but that's really all I can remember and comment on; I'm not well versed in A/D.
I like this, this is probably the best-playing of the three A/D maps that were made for this. It's very pretty, and it's well constructed around the pillars. First is by far the better part of the map, and I like the amount of variety in routes you've managed to pack into such a simple space. I like the boat. It is very hard for blu to establish a foothold past A once they cap it however, and red drove blu back to A a few times. I think this might be because red spawns so close to B and all the routes push them forwards instead of encouraging them to defend. I also think part of the issue is due to the large, empty room between A and B; it's not fun to push through. I'm not well-versed in a/d design, so I fear I can't offer much more help than that on the layout.
Oh boy, I'm really not too sure what to say on this one. Keep in mind that while I've made a fairly successful CTF map in the past, I don't particularly enjoy the mode so my feedback might not be the most useful. Right off the bat it's far too big, rivaling the size of some PASS Time maps. Because of the size, routing is very unclear; it's impossible to tell what's a route and what's a flank since it's all just somewhat random walls, ramps, and pillars in a giant box. It's clear that it was designed with intent rather than truly being a random collection of routes, but it's so unfocused that I can't actually tell what it's trying to do. The pillars are used poorly; it feels like they were just built around without being integrated into an actual layout. I do like having the intel off to the side of the spawns so you can kind of sneak in to grab it, but the rest of the layout is too large and confusing. I'm not sure what I'd do to improve this, but I'd start with cutting out at least half the space and simplify things into clearer routes.
Surprisingly, one of the better medieval maps I've played! I'm not a huge fan of melee combat in TF2, but this seems to be a pretty decent mode for it. You've done a good job at making the spaces large enough for medieval combat and the third-person camera, but they feel sparse. You've also worked the pillars into the layout quite well; great work! There's huge sections of the layout that I never saw during gameplay, and I don't know how much of that is medieval mode's fault, and how much of that is the map's fault. The high ground over mid felt underutilized, as the inner edge of the layout within the building was much more important to hold as it is the fastest way to reach the enemy/cart while pushing. I know so little about medieval mode that I'm not sure how much more help I can be, but I do know it's the most fun I've had with medieval mode in a long time.
Solid start to a payload map! I like the verticality, and the pillars are used well. The opening reminds me a lot of Hoodoo S3's opening. The choke after A is absolutely killer; I'm a fan of hard chokes in PL, but not in combination with the height going on here. The transition to B after the choke is quite neat though, and final is fun. Very cramped and hectic, so expanding it is probably a good move, but overall it seems to work for both teams. I think pulling Red's spawn back just a little bit could help alleviate both the choke and the cramped nature of final. I like this, good work!
Spawns were broken, so we had to skip it, but I'll do my best to give feedback based on the little we did play and just looking at the overall layout. Keep in mind that while I've made a fairly successful CTF map in the past, I don't particularly enjoy the mode so my feedback might not be the most useful. I think having the intel under spawn is smart way to tackle the issue of having to keep the intel near spawn while still having it accessible. The jump pad quick escape routes are also quite neat, though you should probably use trigger_catapults (if you aren't) and set them to aim for a target at the top of the shaft so you don't have to launch players so fast and it's easier to use. I'd also make it much more obvious that that route exists, since it seems like it'll be an important location to hold. The upper half is well-designed in that respect, but the lower portion of it leaves much to be desired. The map as a whole works with the pillars well; I like the ideas on display here, and I'm really interested in seeing how it plays! I think this might be one of the more interesting CTF layouts I've seen over the years once you look at it for a bit.
I really like the idea of a capture zone that goes all the way around one of the pillars, it's a very unique idea it's one of the more interesting uses of the pillars that we got. However, I'm not sure this attempt at it works as well as it could. Having the little pocket of space on the outer edge of the point that requires you to leave the capture zone to keep walking around the perimeter of the zone isn't great; you have to give up contesting the point in order to reach the enemy that's also on the point. Layout-wise, the map is simultaneously too big and too small; a result of overscaling most of the areas while also only having one main combat space. Sure, there's enough routes to reach the central area, but once you get there there's very little interesting space for combat to happen in. This is because there's effectively only two places that fights take place: the two sides of the point where enemies meet. Why push through the choke when the enemy can't flank and you can just set up and hold until the point unlocks? Arena works best when teams can flow around each other, gaining and losing territory, and making the most of positional advantages. Here, because all routes funnel down to two chokes at the point the fights don't evolve. This is partially a fundamental issue with mirror symmetry in Arena and why most are rotationally symmetric, but you can make up for it by offering multiple separated areas along the axis of symmetry that offer different positional advantages. Unfortunately there's none of that here. Adding some more height or flanks would really help the map; something like a lower level that you can use to get behind the enemy or some high ground to fight around at one of the sides of the point. Maybe even both! At the moment it's just a flat box with not enough options and a neat capture zone idea that doesn't live up to its potential due to the surrounding layout.
And as usual for Season 2, here's the mode breakdown:
Code:
Arena 3
Dom 1
KotH 5
PL 2
A/D 3
TD 1
PLR 1
CTF 3
TOW 1
Thanks for playing along! Whether you're a mapper, tester, or observer, your participation is appreciated and make doing these worth it.
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