TC Meridian rc3

By Shmitz

  1. Sgt Frag

    Sgt Frag L14: Epic Member

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    Another map I have a hard time commenting on. It's a great map imo and nice to have tc options now. The flag thing is a cool twist, really I think this map could be cap or flag and be just as fun either way.

    It seems to be improved quite a bit from the older versions. I was on blu and we rolled through it pretty quickly, almost had that last cap before game end. For awhile I thought it might be impossible to get it out of that last room.

    There is a very dark corner tucked in kindof behind the temple I think. It was outside and grey. Sure it was temple. Seems like a player could stand in the dark and not be seen.

    We do need another official tc map, why not this one?
     
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  2. jpr

    aa jpr

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    Really awesome map, and the custom stuff is great. A bit confusing at times, but that's what TC maps are...
     
  3. A Boojum Snark

    aa A Boojum Snark Toraipoddodezain Mazahabado

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  4. Rexy

    aa Rexy The Kwisatz Haderach

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    It was a good play, as usual. Are we going to see a release candidate soon?
     
  5. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

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    I'm still compiling gameday balance data for b5. I'll need like 30-40 more rounds before I think I'll have enough to say one way or another if the areas are balanced against each other.

    If the data suggests they are, though, then yes, it'll be RC time. :)
     
  6. Dr. Spud

    aa Dr. Spud Grossly Incandescent

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    I'm looking forward to playing the map this weekend!

    I've never played it in a server, but I've run around the map quite a bit. I obviously can't comment on the gameplay, but I do have a concern with the visuals. The map feels way more confusing than it actually is. I mean, the architecture doesn't always make it clear where everything is, and where you should go.

    In a given section of tc_hydro, it's very clear to the player that one area is their "base," one area is the enemy's "base," and one area is the space in between. But in Meridian, some of the areas aren't well defined. Look at the part between the submarine and the mech - I don't get the feeling that I'm in a middle area between two bases. Instead, it's more like a series of corridors that are just... there. But one place where you really nailed it is between the village and the submarine. In that area it's very clear where the middle is, and there's even the totem pole to make it distinctive.

    In a best-case scenario, the player should walk out of a spawn room and immediately know where to run, even without the arrows. The architecture should imply what is a path and what direction you should be moving. The player should also be able to figure out, "ok, the enemies base is somewhere on the other side of this next area." Of course, in TC that's not always completely possible, and even hydro doesn't always get it right. But it was really throwing me off in Meridian, way more than the first time I tried hydro. I bet you could change architecture around and make it more intuitive, without messing with the layout.
     
  7. Tyker

    Tyker L5: Dapper Member

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    http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/2771/tcmeridianb50000.jpg
    When running here, I think it was robot vs. sub, I saw alot of people walking straight forward and getting confused, because when running through there they missed this sign: http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8739/tcmeridianb50001.jpg
    Maby place it a little more to the right with a 45 degree angle to simulate a corner?

    Also, is it possible to fix ragdolls falling through the wooden bridges? It looked kinda weird that people who got killed when on the bridge just glided down through the wood.
    http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/6192/tcmeridianb50003.jpg
     
  8. [SpA]Lim-Dul

    [SpA]Lim-Dul L1: Registered

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    By the way - did today's SDK update fix the particle problem? There was something about the particle system in the release notes but since I'm not a map maker I don't know if that's relevant to Meridian.

    If I had to guess I'd say yes, because apparently you can now have particle manifests and this was precisely what was missing, right?
     
  9. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

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    This is a very good question. I shall investigate immediately!

    ANSWER: As far as I can tell, this functionality is still nonexistent in TF2.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2009
  10. [SpA]Lim-Dul

    [SpA]Lim-Dul L1: Registered

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    Hmm - but didn't this perhaps open up the possibility of a work-around?
    Can't you make people download custom particles now just like you would provide them with additional sounds or was that possible before either way?
     
  11. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

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    The only way that works in TF2 is putting a full custom particles_manifest.txt in the particles directory. This is a bad way of doing it though, because if Valve ever adds new particles (like in a class update), the outdated one from the map would override it and possibly break things.

    Acegikmo has contacted Valve about the problem. It sounds like the code is there and available for mods, but they haven't actually incorporated it into TF2's source code yet. We're hoping to at least get some indication if/when this will happen.
     
  12. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

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    Some patterns are starting to emerge from the playtesting, and it appears the submarine bay has a significant advantage in all rounds. Subbay/Temple is 4 wins, 1 loss. Subbay/Village is 5 wins, 2 losses. Subbay/Volcano is 2 wins, 0 losses.

    Numbers are sadly still low, but I think it's enough to start considering ways of making the subbay easier to assault. Does anyone have any suggestions?
     
  13. The Political Gamer

    aa The Political Gamer

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    We run this map on 2f2f constantly and we have large amounts of data about the wins/losses. PM FLOOR if you want more info.
     
  14. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

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    Unfortunately that data has to be tallied by hand. Servers can record data about Red or Blue winning or losing, but it doesn't know, for example, if Blue is in Village or if Red is in Village.

    The raw data may exist in the logs though. I suppose it won't hurt to ask FM if he knows how to parse it.
     
  15. Dr. Spud

    aa Dr. Spud Grossly Incandescent

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    I've only played the map twice, so it might just be me. But I have more trouble navigating through the sub-bay than the other basses. There are lots of places to fall or get stuck, especially on the submarine itself. Maybe that has something to do with it?
     
  16. The Political Gamer

    aa The Political Gamer

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    If it is in the logs he could easy get a hold of the info. The other thing is that he is very good at seeing if the teams are stacked or not, and that can really mess with the outcome.
     
  17. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

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    Working on stuff. Here's a comparison of old vs new:

    [​IMG]
    (the big volcano is missing in "new" because I was using cordon =P)

    Also, here's a better view of the new side hallway in the submarine bay:
    [​IMG]

    I've also fixed a couple bugs, and added a few more "don't go here" barricades to the volcano area during the final red defense round. There are other minor tweaks to make here and there, but this may be enough for me to push out a new version.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2009
  18. FreeLance_FoX

    FreeLance_FoX L6: Sharp Member

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    Shmitz the changes you've made look phenomenal! I've always thought that out of all the bases the Subbay was easiest to cover with a single Sentry. Both entrances are easily covered with one gun (IIRC) and for the defenders that basically gives them free reign of the map's center. >_0

    The change you've made, adding a vertical path, would seem to definitely balance it out! Here's hoping, and I'm eagerly awaiting your next version.

    -FoXy
     
  19. Shmitz

    aa Shmitz Old Hat

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    Underwater Hypnopen
    Hypnotize sharks.
    Write on them. It works!

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Rexy

    aa Rexy The Kwisatz Haderach

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    I want one! Does it work on all aquatic animals? I want to write nasty things on stingrays for killing Steve Irwin.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2009